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Thinking about a 300 two stroke coming from a 450F Help!

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So I bought a 2013 WR450 at the beginning of this year and have been enjoying it all riding season. As my skills developed and I got back into riding more I realized I really wanted to get into more technical riding, the so called "cross training" enduro type stuff. 

 

That being said I think the WR450 just isn't suited for the task, especially not for a novice rider. I'm sure Graham could get on a WR450 and make it look like a trials bike but thats because he's a god. In my case I think I need primarily two things, one is a lighter bike, two is a bike with more controllable power. The 450 just has way too much torque and low end power, when trying to do a technical hill climb or something you have to have the clutch feathered the entire time, and if you crack the throttle just a millimeter too far your arms are coming off. Not the most gentle bike for a C type rider to try to get technical on.

 

Anyway that being said I think a two stroke (mostly for the weight) is in order. However my biggest question is which engine size. The 250 and 300 are nearly identical in weight for most manufacturers so then the question becomes which one has more controllable power (mostly at the bottom half of revs as I'm rarely going over the top half, at least not for technical stuff). 

 

I do plan to make it street legal so I can take short jaunts on the streets from trail to trail or to cruise into town here or there for fun and worry that a 200 might just not quite have the legs I need / want. I'm heavily leaning ether 250 or 300 but I've never ridden ether size in a two stroke so I don't really have any idea what the power feels like in those engines. I'm constantly stalling my 450 in really technical hill climbs where you're really creeping along etc. which is probably the second most annoying thing about the big fat 450.

 

Anyway what would you recommend for tight technical riding? I just want something that's got gentle power delivery and can handle the lower end crawling stuff better, that's to say, isn't going to tear your arms off with just a hair too much throttle going through tight stuff.

 

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I went from a 450 to a 300. DO IT! The 300 is perfect, a little softer off idle than your 450 but just as much on top for those wide open trails. No over heating, no stalling, and will feel 100 pounds lighter.

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300s are boring i have been riding a mates 2015 beta for 2 weeks and there slow don't rev out have a very short powerband, gears are too close together so your always shifting gears, top end and general power is nowhere compared to a modern 450, anybody who reckons a 300 2t is as powerful as a modern 450 has his hand on it, just learn to ride your 450 or i would get a 250 if you really want a 2t there more exciting rev out more and are fun to ride. Personally my opinion a 300 2t enduro engine is the worst thing i have ever ridden.

Edited by throttle violence

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Do yourself a huge favor and get the Beta 300. You can either get the XT or RR. I had an 06 WR450. That thing was a pig of a bike. I tried really hard to like it, but never did. I quite riding for several years because I thought there were no bikes out there for me. I started doing some research about a year and a half ago and started looking at the KTM 300's. I had decided to try one and then came a acroos a really good deal on my Beta and am very glad that I did. This thing will chug like nothing that I have been on since my XR400. The beta handles better that the WR and will definitely work better in the tight stuff. As for throttle violence response, the WR does have more HP and would most likely win a drag race. I am way past needing to outrun everyone else. I ride for fun and the Beta is FUN. I can ride it without tiring out so quickly. I have owned many bikes and this one is by far the easiest one to ride that I have owned. As for the power delivery, the neat thing about Beta is you have a choice. All you need is an allen wrench to adjust the power valve.

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Do yourself a huge favor and get the Beta 300. You can either get the XT or RR. I had an 06 WR450. That thing was a pig of a bike. I tried really hard to like it, but never did. I quite riding for several years because I thought there were no bikes out there for me. I started doing some research about a year and a half ago and started looking at the KTM 300's. I had decided to try one and then came a acroos a really good deal on my Beta and am very glad that I did. This thing will chug like nothing that I have been on since my XR400. The beta handles better that the WR and will definitely work better in the tight stuff. As for throttle violence response, the WR does have more HP and would most likely win a drag race. I am way past needing to outrun everyone else. I ride for fun and the Beta is FUN. I can ride it without tiring out so quickly. I have owned many bikes and this one is by far the easiest one to ride that I have owned. As for the power delivery, the neat thing about Beta is you have a choice. All you need is an allen wrench to adjust the power valve.

 

That's pretty much what I was thinking, my next biggest issue is finding a Beta dealer to buy from. Unfortunately there aren't any dealers in my state which means I'm going to have to pay sales tax if I want to buy a beta, where as I could buy a KTM with no sales tax potentially making it actually cheaper to buy than the Beta. Unfortunately though the KTM's are much more expensive to maintain and replace parts on. (not to mention the KTM two stroke E-starters.....)

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Any particular reason why?

Sorry for the short answer. Thumpertalk decided to bog my computer down to a halt. Anyways, I think you will love the 300. The number one most user friendly thing about it is how tunable to power is by using power valve dolly screw and different springs and also the two different maps you can use. Two strokes typically have lower working revs and I think this is particularly true on the 300 since its pretty powerful. The hit of the 300 when it comes on the pipe is the least noticeable of two strokes. A 300 can go from sluggish feeling or oh crap I better hold on tighter just with different power valve settings. They aren’t as powerful as a newer 450 MX bike by any means but if set up aggressively (power valve) you will find that it has more, way more, than enough power.

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Sorry for the short answer. Thumpertalk decided to bog my computer down to a halt. Anyways, I think you will love the 300. The number one most user friendly thing about it is how tunable to power is by using power valve dolly screw and different springs and also the two different maps you can use. Two strokes typically have lower working revs and I think this is particularly true on the 300 since its pretty powerful. The hit of the 300 when it comes on the pipe is the least noticeable of two strokes. A 300 can go from sluggish feeling or oh crap I better hold on tighter just with different power valve settings. They aren’t as powerful as a newer 450 MX bike by any means but if set up aggressively (power valve) you will find that it has more, way more, than enough power.

 

Thanks for the input. Yea ideally thats kind of what I want anyway is less power, or at least more manageable, controllable 'tame' power.

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Another plus for the 2016 Beta 250/300, if you are going to make it street legal, is their oil injection system.  That way you can just pull up to a gas station and fill up.  No need to carry 2 stroke oil in bottle(s) and guess ratios and pour/mix/shake in the gas tank.  :)

 

The pros of a KTM thou are lots more aftermarket support.  Like if you want a larger tank for a KTM 300, several choices.  Also, way more stuff on eBay.  Higher resale.  Also easier to find a used one if you didn't want to buy new.

 

I would vote 300cc, as they are tuneable, so you can calm it down or make it wilder.  Lots of free options (power valve settings, jetting (extra jets come with the bikes)).

 

And easier to just follow the masses and get a KTM 300 XC-W.  :)  

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Even though I'm going through a messy break up with KTM for what your looking for I'd recommend a 300XC-W. I think if I were considering a 250 though I'd want to check out the new Yami 250X before just giving the nod to the 250XC-W. Just not sure you can plate the YZ. Even in New Hampster. I think it's considered "Closed Course" bike which makes it darn near impossible to register, but that's coming from a Mass hole.

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If you were to go for the 250 or even the 200 XC-W, you would be much more involved in the ride itself. You can't just lug the darn thing up a hill like the 450 or the 300, you gotta give that baby some gas! So what I am getting at is the smaller bikes in my opinion are in general more fun to ride. Yes, there are some times were you think the extra horse power could some in handy, but going fast doesn't just come from what you ride.

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300s are boring i have been riding a mates 2015 beta for 2 weeks and there slow don't rev out have a very short powerband, gears are too close together so your always shifting gears, top end and general power is nowhere compared to a modern 450, anybody who reckons a 300 2t is as powerful as a modern 450 has his hand on it, just learn to ride your 450 or i would get a 250 if you really want a 2t there more exciting rev out more and are fun to ride. Personally my opinion a 300 2t enduro engine is the worst thing i have ever ridden.

This right here is absolutely comical. My last bike was a 2011 ktm 300xc that would blow the doors off most 450s. I did a sxs head with squish set, gnarly pipe, bored carb out 3 mm and put in red powervalve spring. The thing made a ton of torque down low and revved out awesome on top. The 300 you rode was just set up lazy. That is the nice thing about the 300, you can set them up a lot of different ways. For offroad I think they are tons better than the 450. Perfect torque down low and they will lug forever without flaming out. They also feel like riding a bicycle compared to the heavy 4 strokes. The 250 is also an awesome bike. I just bought the new yz250x offroad 2 stroke bike. And yes I have owned a crf450, ktm 450sx, and ktm 525 so I have had plenty of 4 strokes. Go 2 stroke and you won't regret it.

Edited by Iluv2fly

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This right here is absolutely comical. My last bike was a 2011 ktm 300xc that would blow the doors off most 450s. I did a sxs head with squish set, gnarly pipe, bored carb out 3 mm and put in red powervalve spring. The thing made a ton of torque down low and revved out awesome on top. The 300 you rode was just set up lazy. That is the nice thing about the 300, you can set them up a lot of different ways. For offroad I think they are tons better than the 450. Perfect torque down low and they will lug forever without flaming out. They also feel like riding a bicycle compared to the heavy 4 strokes. The 250 is also an awesome bike. I just bought the new yz250x offroad 2 stroke bike. And yes I have owned a crf450, ktm 450sx, and ktm 525 so I have had plenty of 4 strokes. Go 2 stroke and you won't regret it.

A 300 enduro no matter what you have done to it will never blow the doors off a 450, you comment is down right stupid i would like to be nice to you but seriously dude stop talking shit, i think your just making crap up, gnarly pipes dont rev or make any hp, sxs head and squish might give you 1 to 2 hp max,changing powervalve springs will give you zero hp increase.

Edited by throttle violence

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A 300 enduro no matter what you have done to it will never blow the doors off a 450, you comment is down right stupid i would like to be nice to you but seriously dude stop talking shit, i think your just making crap up, gnarly pipes dont rev or make any hp, sxs head and squish might give you 1 to 2 hp max,changing powervalve springs will give you zero hp increase.[/quote

Your right, if your riding spots have you banging the rev limiter a 450 is much much better.

But for woods, like the op stated he was riding, a 300 is a better, easier, bike to ride.

Still, a 300 wide open is faster than most mortal humans can handle.

Edited by David C

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A 300 enduro no matter what you have done to it will never blow the doors off a 450, you comment is down right stupid i would like to be nice to you but seriously dude stop talking shit, i think your just making crap up, gnarly pipes dont rev or make any hp, sxs head and squish might give you 1 to 2 hp max,changing powervalve springs will give you zero hp increase.[/quote

Your right, if your riding spots have you banging the rev limiter a 450 is much much better.

But for woods, like the op stated he was riding, a 300 is a better, easier, bike to ride.

Still, a 300 wide open is faster than most mortal humans can handle.

Every year we go down to mesquite Nevada and do some Hill banging on some big climbs. I am the only one on a 300 2 stroke and most everyone else is on a 450. I have no issue straight up out climbing these 450s in the loose long hillclimbs. Not sure why you think I am making it up, I have nothing to gain by it. The new gnarly pipe they came out with in 2011 for the ktm 300 has a larger stinger and revs just great.

Edited by Iluv2fly

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ame="David C" post="12759862" timestamp="1448119236"]

Every year we go down to mesquite Nevada and do some Hill banging on some big climbs. I am the only one on a 300 2 stroke and most everyone else is on a 450. I have no issue straight up out climbing these 450s in the loose long hillclimbs. Not sure why you think I am making it up, I have nothing to gain by it. The new gnarly pipe they came out with in 2011 for the ktm 300 has a larger stinger and revs just great.

A fmf gnarly is the pipe not the stinger any smaller stinger will give it some more over rev but very little hp increase,you must have a super set up 300 because a 450 will be much better and controlled on a loose hill climb than a 2 stroke, the only benefit i found with a 300 over a 450 is they chug better but if people learn't how to use clutch/throttle control properly on a 450 then they would be the same, as for power next time your out in the desert with your 450 mates have a drag race and you will see the 300s cant sustain top end and will run out of puff where the 450s just keep pulling we tried it and the 450s had about 12 bike lengths of the 300s and kept pulling away. I myself would by a 250 2t for enduro riding i found them a much better engine than a 300, i have rode plenty of 300s ktm,beta,and they just torque up real quick and it's all over your always changing gear with that stupid 6 speed they put in them, the yamaha 5 speed wide ratio is the way to go.

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