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2016 Sachs O/C fork revalve Beta 350rr

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Iv'e now put 10 hours on my new Beta and have a bit of handle on how it feels its very different to my 2014 YZ250f which is now my sons. I find I'm having to run the comp clickers in from 6-10 clicks out or the fork gets Harsh I'm sure its blowing through the base and smacking into the mid which is why it feels better with the comp wound in. Rebound I'm running also in a bit at about 8-10 clicks. 

 

I have no experience with these forks or the WP o/c they are supposed to be a copy off. So any input or ideas like "Marty your an idiot what are you thinking" would be much appreciated. Std stacks I think the 18 on the face is a main issue however I like bleed as I flipped the bleed on my KYB's and loved it. I've never used bleed shims before so have gone with what I know no bleed shim and a 1mm hole in the mid. 

 

Std stacks 

Comp                                                                                                                                          

18x0.1

25x0.1 (2)

16x0.1

22

25         (2)

23

22

20

18

16x0.15

14x0.15

12x0.15

10x0.15

 

Mid valve

20x0.1 (2)

19x0.1

17x0.1

11x0.2

11x0.2

11x0.2

11x0.35

Float 0.35 feeler gauge measured

 

Rebound

3xDelta 0.1mm

16x0.1

12x0.1

16x0.1

10x0.3

 

 

Proposed stacks 

 

Compression 

 

25x0.1 (4)

20x0.1

25x0.1

23

22

20

18

16x 0.1

14x0.1

12x0.1

10x0.15

 

Mid valve (drill 1mm bleed hole)

20x0.1 (3)

18

16

14

12

11

10

Fill with 11’s to get 0.35 float.

 

Rebound 

3 Delta

12x0.1

16x0.1

14x0.1

13x0.1

12x0.1

11x0.1

10x0.3

 

I know its lots of changes at once and to be honest if I get no help will start with the base first and leave the rest till I get it better, I'm hoping to save some time by posting it here, also hoping to learn and maybe steal a few ideas maybe :) :)

 

Cheers

Marty 

Edited by MartyMOOSE

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I think it's a good start point ,no one can say for sure as the std one is so weird ,your mid is way different and that could be a good thing

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Done much with the WP OC forks Mog ? I've had a bit of a look around thinking there would be a ton of threads on them not much at all. 

 

MM 

Edited by MartyMOOSE

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Not much ,did a few and with the 14mm damper rods they were a nightmare ,the 12mm rods were better ,and you can pretty much run the cc valving specs in those

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Chirp chirp :) Built this stack tonight to try at least its easy to get the base valves out without pulling the forks to bits. Had to make do with the std shims. Waiting on some 7mm shims. 

25x0.1 (3)
18
25
22
20
18
16x0.1
14x0.15
12
10


MM

Edited by MartyMOOSE

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Much better stack.

The bleedshim, 2xfaceshims and the dual xo is just too weak for serious riding.... Dont go too crazy off with the mid stack. adding a bleedhole is a good idea.
A dual stage reb makes sense too.

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Thanks for the input Vietze I am worried about the bleed hole and the effect it will have on the rebound. I'm also nervous about drill it in the correct position as I have not done this before. For now I'll trial the new base I made and go from there. I feel it will (last one posted) will still be a bit soft still. I'll leave the mid completely till I get the base a bit closer then make small changes as I feel the need rather than big sweeping changes in the top post. To be honest I was hoping the big changes posted first would promote a bit of discussion as it was WHAM all at once :) 

 

Thanks again 

Marty 

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Do you get id7 shim in Australia?

 

dont worry about the bleedhole, you can drill it whereever you want. Does not make a difference...

Edited by Vietze
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Yes I can get some 7mm shims :) I will drill a bleed hole once I sort out this base. I'm also concerned about the effect a hole will have on the rebound! Was considering a bleed shim as per KTM's as it quick easy and can be changed back, although it is dynamic not static like hole. So many options, need to get the 7mm shims before I go much further. 

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Dont overthink a bleedhole....

Forks use it for ages, especially the japanese ones. Only WP somehow is too lazy to drill it.

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And they could have actually won shootouts if they did

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Chirp chirp :) Built this stack tonight to try at least its easy to get the base valves out without pulling the forks to bits. Had to make do with the std shims. Waiting on some 7mm shims. 

25x0.1 (3)

18

25

22

20

18

16x0.1

14x0.15

12

10

MM

 

 

 

 

 

Well I rode with this stack part way through the ride I added 25ml of fork oil each leg. Was definitely better however still too soft. Still waiting on some shims! No harshness at all  no deflection on rock just too soft in rough busy ground needs to be higher in the stroke. 

 

 

MM

Edited by MartyMOOSE

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How far did you go in on comp

To stiffen it just clamp on the 12

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How far did you go in on comp

To stiffen it just clamp on the 12

Sorry mog missed this 6 out on sand today was a little harsh. 8 out on hard pack yesterday not harsh. 

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Yes try the 12 clamp and it should he about right ,jot bad for your guess work ,I took 2 revalves on the aer to get it how I wanted

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Yes try the 12 clamp and it should he about right ,jot bad for your guess work ,I took 2 revalves on the aer to get it how I wanted

Been a bit busy at work. Tried the 12 clamp today and put the 16 x 0.15 back in the high speed as I had put a 16 x 0.1 in its place. The larger clamp let me open the adjuster a bit more and its really responsive. Was a little un even in the stroke like the forks had lost some progression. My shims have arrived now so will put the 10 clamp back in and add some face shims. Does anyone know if there is a rule of thumb with regards to clamp shim size and face shims ?? Is going from a 10 clamp to a 12 worth one or more face shims as a guide ? 

 

The stack I used today 

25x0.1 (3)

18x0.1

25

22

20

18

16x0.15

14x0.15

12

 

Proposed 

25x0.1 (4) or (5) ?? 

18x0.1

25

22

20

18

16x0.15

14x0.15

12

10

 

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Without restackor I would not be able to say which stack is which in terms of stiffness , I would be sceptical you can feel any steps in the valving as the base valve only gives around 1/3 of the damping ,so you are talking very small changes in damping overall ,if the clicker is in the middle I doubt you will improve it by adding shims at one end and making the clamp smaller at the other ,Restackor is a very cool tool that stops all this guesswork , this test will take 30 seconds to run once you have the data in

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Without restackor I would not be able to say which stack is which in terms of stiffness , I would be sceptical you can feel any steps in the valving as the base valve only gives around 1/3 of the damping ,so you are talking very small changes in damping overall ,if the clicker is in the middle I doubt you will improve it by adding shims at one end and making the clamp smaller at the other ,Restackor is a very cool tool that stops all this guesswork , this test will take 30 seconds to run once you have the data in

Looks like I need restackor then I hesitated to get it once before as I don't know anything about what shaft speeds to use. Ran the clicker at 10-12 out today was 6-8 before and 3 out at M/X the previous weekend yes I know its not an M/X bike :) :) 

 

MM 

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If the clicker is at 12 ish and your plushness is right on the small stuff ,you now feel more progression (it's hitting more of a wall ?) This means you need to remove some hs and keep the low speed the same ,or use a lower oil level to allow it to use more of the stroke ,to get the same low speed with less high is defiantly a job for restackor ,less oil is the easy way

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If the clicker is at 12 ish and your plushness is right on the small stuff ,you now feel more progression (it's hitting more of a wall ?) This means you need to remove some hs and keep the low speed the same ,or use a lower oil level to allow it to use more of the stroke ,to get the same low speed with less high is defiantly a job for restackor ,less oil is the easy way

 Yep hitting a wall is a good explanation its fine most places just in really busy sharp edged ground when I'm pushing its an issue, if I back off the pace a fraction it is fine for the most part certainly best they have been so far.. To be honest maybe I'm expecting too much from O/C forks after my SSS  forks I revalved on my Yamaha.

 

Another issue is the rebound its also in heaps at 6 clicks tried more/less clicks several times playing with the clickers and always end up at 6 clicks out. I'm thinking there may also be some cross over due to the rebound being in so far just to complicate things. 

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