Suzuki needle mod

[YamiRacer]

Just did the Suzuki needle swap in my '12 250sx, and WOW! What a difference! Fiddled with it for a bit yesterday and now it runs like a champ!

[borgwarner]

Which needle did you use exactly?

[motonack]

Yeah, i'm using a Suzuki needle too.  Not a popular one, but it's a Suzuki needle.  I like it.  The NECJ which is often highly regarded is simply too lean for my taste.

[YamiRacer]

Which needle did you use exactly?

I am using the NECJ. 

[seth505]

Nice, just an FYI, I switched to a 38mm carb and was able to keep my same jetting (way different from stock) and I think I only changed air screw a bit.

[borgwarner]

I am using the NECJ.

Thanks!

[DrKayak]

Any discussion of which needle is questionable without pilot jet, temp, and altitude.. No? Might as well add riding conditions too as jetting for goat trails is different from open MX riding.  

 

I love the Suzuki needles for tight single track where you are just above idle 80% of the time. Due to the triple taper design, they correct the too rich off-idle condition of the KTM needles (at 1/8 throttle) and I get great MPG and no smoke or spooge by running close to lean..

 

But... if you run close to lean you have to make sure you don't go too lean when conditions change and burn up the bike... Right? You want a set-it-and-forget jetting .. go rich.. 

 

I think of the needle series as - NE - (C or D) - x  with the x being the starting diameter and C/D being a 1/2 clip difference. As in NEDK clip 3 = NECK clip 3.5. The final "K" is lean starting diameter. Also note, A NECJ clip 2 is only richer than a NECK clip 2 up the 1/8 throttle after you pass the starting diameter portion of the needle they are the same!

 

My summer base line jetting - NEDK #2 38pj 165m @4,000ft 80*-90*

Next winter ride will be          - NEDJ #3 38pj  170m @1,000ft 40*  (richer starting diameter and one clip richer)

 

Could just as well tried a 40pj with a NEDK for winter... lots of choices get you to the same A/F ratio.

 

I find changing the needle easier than the pj with the carb on the bike. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by DrKayak

[Dirkarider]

And like women,jug size matters,,are we talking 250 here?

[YamiRacer]

And like women,jug size matters,,are we talking 250 here?

Actually, I'm at 265cc with head mods and ported cylinder, running motocross only.

[borgwarner]

Its always interesting to see how close most setups are. Most 250 300 or even 200 have quite similar jetting.

[HondaH8r904]

NECJ does very well on my 14 250sx

[clappedoutkx]

I'm happy with the NEDJ in my 300's PWK36. I may try drkayak's idea next summer.

[Swappa]

Any discussion of which needle is questionable without pilot jet, temp, and altitude.. No? Might as well add riding conditions too as jetting for goat trails is different from open MX riding.  

 

I love the Suzuki needles for tight single track where you are just above idle 80% of the time. Due to the triple taper design, they correct the too rich off-idle condition of the KTM needles (at 1/8 throttle) and I get great MPG and no smoke or spooge by running close to lean..

 

But... if you run close to lean you have to make sure you don't go too lean when conditions change and burn up the bike... Right? You want a set-it-and-forget jetting .. go rich.. 

 

I think of the needle series as - NE - (C or D) - x  with the x being the starting diameter and C/D being a 1/2 clip difference. As in NEDK clip 3 = NECK clip 3.5. The final "K" is lean starting diameter. Also note, A NECJ clip 2 is only richer than a NECK clip 2 up the 1/8 throttle after you pass the starting diameter portion of the needle they are the same!

 

My summer base line jetting - NEDK #2 38pj 165m @4,000ft 80*-90*

Next winter ride will be          - NEDJ #3 38pj  170m @1,000ft 40*  (richer starting diameter and one clip richer)

 

Could just as well tried a 40pj with a NEDK for winter... lots of choices get you to the same A/F ratio.

 

I find changing the needle easier than the pj with the carb on the bike. 

Great post! :thumbsup:Wanna confuse an EFI 250 rider, start talking to him about jetting your 250SX  . Lets keep this art alive!

[ChadG]

Any discussion of which needle is questionable without pilot jet, temp, and altitude.. No? Might as well add riding conditions too as jetting for goat trails is different from open MX riding.  

 

I love the Suzuki needles for tight single track where you are just above idle 80% of the time. Due to the triple taper design, they correct the too rich off-idle condition of the KTM needles (at 1/8 throttle) and I get great MPG and no smoke or spooge by running close to lean..

 

But... if you run close to lean you have to make sure you don't go too lean when conditions change and burn up the bike... Right? You want a set-it-and-forget jetting .. go rich.. 

 

I think of the needle series as - NE - (C or D) - x  with the x being the starting diameter and C/D being a 1/2 clip difference. As in NEDK clip 3 = NECK clip 3.5. The final "K" is lean starting diameter. Also note, A NECJ clip 2 is only richer than a NECK clip 2 up the 1/8 throttle after you pass the starting diameter portion of the needle they are the same!

 

My summer base line jetting - NEDK #2 38pj 165m @4,000ft 80*-90*

Next winter ride will be          - NEDJ #3 38pj  170m @1,000ft 40*  (richer starting diameter and one clip richer)

 

Could just as well tried a 40pj with a NEDK for winter... lots of choices get you to the same A/F ratio.

 

I find changing the needle easier than the pj with the carb on the bike.

Thanks for the setting suggestions! I have a 2015 Husky TE250. Really like goat trails but like to open it up on fire roads too.

Im looking to get better mileage. Currently only getting about 25 mpg,so this should help. Hoping for 35 mpg+.

Do you think using the J needle in the #2 position with 165 main would be ok for Summer riding at 4000+Ft? I think that would be a little richer than the K in the same position?

Edited January 6, 2016 by ChadG

[DrKayak]

Thanks for the setting suggestions! I have a 2015 Husky TE250. Really like goat trails but like to open it up on fire roads too.

Im looking to get better mileage. Currently only getting about 25 mpg,so this should help. Hoping for 35 mpg+.

Do you think using the J needle in the #2 position with 165 main would be ok for Summer riding at 4000+Ft? I think that would be a little richer than the K in the same position?

 

I was happy with NECJ #2 38pj and 168 main @ 4,000ft 50* - early fall condition. Really like the NEDK #2 for hot summer conditions. really clean crisp response off idle. It did not have a lean bog when testing with the whack-the-throttle method. Never found a a needle that worked for me at clip 3 for summer.. probably could run clip 3 with a 35 pilot jet. 

 

Keep in mind the K to J difference is only the starting diameter of the needle which has most impact from idle to 1/8 throttle. 

 

I find the right main makes a big difference when you open it up on fire roads. I started with a 175 main base on a recommendation... Ran great, till someone posted that a 175 was too big for summer.. Went to a smaller main and it pulled much harder.. 

 

I'm getting over 35MPG consistently. The times I have done the math it's always 37MPG. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by DrKayak

[E-TECH]

SX has a 6.5 slide.

Xcw and xc have 7.

This makes a sizeable difference.

Around here 1000- 2400 ft a necj and # 7 slide are way lean, Not good.

Nedh much better more grunt , smooth power and a cooler motor.

[peaceofwork]

14 xc-w300 nech 42pilot 168 main vf4 gnarly recluse sxs head

[Andrew_v949]

this for a 300 or 250?

 

I was happy with NECJ #2 38pj and 168 main @ 4,000ft 50* - early fall condition. Really like the NEDK #2 for hot summer conditions. really clean crisp response off idle. It did not have a lean bog when testing with the whack-the-throttle method. Never found a a needle that worked for me at clip 3 for summer.. probably could run clip 3 with a 35 pilot jet. 

 

Keep in mind the K to J difference is only the starting diameter of the needle which has most impact from idle to 1/8 throttle. 

 

I find the right main makes a big difference when you open it up on fire roads. I started with a 175 main base on a recommendation... Ran great, till someone posted that a 175 was too big for summer.. Went to a smaller main and it pulled much harder.. 

 

I'm getting over 35MPG consistently. The times I have done the math it's always 37MPG. 

this for a 300 or a 250?

[Jimmy boy]

14 xc-w300 nech 42pilot 168 main vf4 gnarly recluse sxs head

is your X measurement set @ 0? Or did you use smaller base gaskets? That's a big pilot, what altitude?

[MistrRoboto]

Nedh much better more grunt , smooth power and a cooler motor.

Love the NEDH on my '15 300. Just had a friend ride it who also has a 300 and he said "wow that bike is jetted nicely."