Cam can weakens the engine?

[CaQCRider]

I talk to a guy who work in a dirt bike performance shop and i ask him,if a put  only a cam stage 1 or 2 in my bike (230f) does that may reduce reliability?? and he told me it will weaken significantly the engine, because the engine of the 230 it's not durable??What do you think about that owner of 230?

[Yap Yap]

'because the engine of the 230 it's not durable'

Bullshit. A cam will reduce power if you don't have a high compression piston. Some cams require heavy duty springs (don't get BBR spring). Some more aggressive cams require the head/valve seats to be modified. 

Of course a stock engine is more durable, but it's not going to make a big difference in how long the engine will last you. Proper maintenance is more important.

Many members here have modified engines that they rode for a very very long time.

Just my advice from experience, lighten the flywheel first, High power output + massive flywheel puts too much load on the crankshaft and bad things tend to happen. 

Edited January 14, 2016 by Yap Yap

[VortecCPI]

What?  Not if it is installed properly with proper clearance checks and proper valve springs and a good timing chain.

 

A big/long cam, without a doubt, can reduce power if installed in an engine with an inadequately low compression ratio.

 

I can tell you from my own experience a CRF230F with Web 40mc/402 cam and Wiseco piston becomes an entirely new machine.

 

Cams like the Web 40mc/402 and Terry's hybrids are practically OEM duty in the sense they are so kind to the valvetrain components.

 

There are, of course, some very big cam profiles that are very hard on valvetrain components but those are not the sort of cams we would use for the type of riding the CRF230F is intended and used for.  Very big/long cams require a very high CR and lots of head work, larger valves, and larger carb and exhaust.  Cams like that are only used for all-out racing and would be of little value in a CRF230F on the trails in the woods.

 

The CRF230F engine platform has been around for almost five decades and has got to be one of the most durable and reliable air-cooled two-valve bike engines ever produced.  You need to ask the person at the performance shop to cite several actual examples and to provide references for those same examples.  These engines are as durable as a bowling ball and expert builders/racers/tuners like Frank Nye, Mike Coe, and Terry Miller have using them for many years.

 

I call BS on this one.

Edited January 14, 2016 by VortecCPI

[adnohguy]

I talk to a guy who work in a dirt bike performance shop and i ask him,if a put only a cam stage 1 or 2 in my bike (230f) does that may reduce reliability?? and he told me it will weaken significantly the engine, because the engine of the 230 it's not durable??What do you think about that owner of 230?

Moronic

[adnohguy]

This particular cam will do EVERYTHING EXCEPT make your bike weaker.

That's guaranteed...

[VortecCPI]

This particular cam will paste a semi-permanent smile on your face.  It will also have you talking to yourself and giggling and laughing out loud while your ride.
 

!!! CAUTION !!!

 

Other riders may think you have lost your mind and gone crazy!  That is, once they catch up to you.

[CaQCRider]

What?  Not if it is installed properly with proper clearance checks and proper valve springs and a good timing chain.

 

A big/long cam, without a doubt, can reduce power if installed in an engine with an inadequately low compression ratio.

 

I can tell you from my own experience a CRF230F with Web 40mc/402 cam and Wiseco piston becomes an entirely new machine.

 

Cams like the Web 40mc/402 and Terry's hybrids are practically OEM duty in the sense they are so kind to the valvetrain components.

 

There are, of course, some very big cam profiles that are very hard on valvetrain components but those are not the sort of cams we would use for the type of riding the CRF230F is intended and used for.  Very big/long cams require a very high CR and lots of head work, larger valves, and larger carb and exhaust.  Cams like that are only used for all-out racing and would be of little value in a CRF230F on the trails in the woods.

 

The CRF230F engine platform has been around for almost five decades and has got to be one of the most durable and reliable air-cooled two-valve bike engines ever produced.  You need to ask the person at the performance shop to cite several actual examples and to provide references for those same examples.  These engines are as durable as a bowling ball and expert builders/racers/tuners like Frank Nye, Mike Coe, and Terry Miller have using them for many years.

 

I call BS on this one.

I totally agree this is the first time i hear that a Honda crf 230 are weak and not durable.I have a 1984 xl 100s and run very well never touched the engine! Can i put ONLY a cam stage 2 or 1 in my bike?And if so how many hp more can i get?

[VortecCPI]

I totally agree this is the first time i hear that a Honda crf 230 are weak and not durable.I have a 1984 xl 100s and run very well never touched the engine! Can i put ONLY a cam stage 2 or 1 in my bike?And if so how many hp more can i get?

 

When it comes to cams generally smaller is better.  Since you compromise the cylinder-to-case gasket when installing a cam you might as well install a piston.  A stock CRF230F comes in just under 9:1 so a piston, in my opinion, is mandatory.

 

When you say "Stage I" and "Stage 2" what exact cams are you referring to?

[William1]

Find a different mechanic.

As a general rule, wild 'race' cams at most need different valve springs. This can be because of lift/coil bind, ramp speed and a few other things. The cam manufacturer will tell you if different springs are needed. 90% of the time, stock springs are fine.

The difference in power is well within the design parameters of your engine. Most bikes bottom ends are way more capable than the power they make, except some MX bikes that from the factory are designed on the ragged edge. The CRF230 is not one of those. I have little doubt you could boost power by 50% and not over strain any (rod, crank, clutch, trans) bottom end part.

[adnohguy]

Find a different mechanic.

As a general rule, wild 'race' cams at most need different valve springs. This can be because of lift/coil bind, ramp speed and a few other things. The cam manufacturer will tell you if different springs are needed. 90% of the time, stock springs are fine.

The difference in power is well within the design parameters of your engine. Most bikes bottom ends are way more capable than the power they make, except some MX bikes that from the factory are designed on the ragged edge. The CRF230 is not one of those. I have little doubt you could boost power by 50% and not over strain any (rod, crank, clutch, trans) bottom end part.

Actually you can boost power to at least double that of stock with no issues other than adding two GSXR inner valve springs along with two stockers to the OEM clutch assembly along with removing the "Judder" plates and adding a regular clutch plate in its place.

Happens all the time....

That's what's makes this "weakens" post so absurd.

Edited January 14, 2016 by adnohguy

[greenhuman]

I have been putting cylinders and heads with all manner of bore/stroke/cam combo's in the completely wrong places with this style of engine for for 23 years and reliability has never been an issue.

[CaQCRider]

This particular cam will paste a semi-permanent smile on your face.  It will also have you talking to yourself and giggling and laughing out loud while your ride.

 

!!! CAUTION !!!

 

Other riders may think you have lost your mind and gone crazy!  That is, once they catch up to you.

How much for this kit??because when spring will come back i would smile all the time on my bike!

[VortecCPI]

How much for this kit??because when spring will come back i would smile all the time on my bike!

 

I shopped around and got the cam, piston, and gasket set for $308.  I used genuine Honda gaskets for my build.

 

The change to the engine is dramatic in my opinion.  Just like putting a real cam and pistons in a lazy L-48 350 SBC.

 

This is a huge Bang-for-the-Buck but I recommend you use one of Terry Miller's hybrid cams in lieu of the 40mc/402.

[CaQCRider]

When it comes to cams generally smaller is better.  Since you compromise the cylinder-to-case gasket when installing a cam you might as well install a piston.  A stock CRF230F comes in just under 9:1 so a piston, in my opinion, is mandatory.

 

When you say "Stage I" and "Stage 2" what exact cams are you referring to?

I talking about the cam he sold at engine only store cam stage1 Torque cam,stage2 around cam increases mid range.

[VortecCPI]

I talking about the cam he sold at engine only store cam stage1 Torque cam,stage2 around cam increases mid range.

 

Okay.  Thank you.  You will need to speak directly to Frank Nye about the cams he offers.  I am fairly sure he will tell you his cams will need a piston as most of his builds are 11:1+.  He recommended his #2 cam and piston for my needs:

"11.0:1 Wiseco #2 cam and springs...  You will be so happy"

 

Frank is not a man of many words but every word counts!

 

Note new springs are required!

Edited January 15, 2016 by VortecCPI

[CaQCRider]

Okay.  Thank you.  You will need to speak directly to Frank Nye about the cams he offers.  I am fairly sure he will tell you his cams will need a piston as most of his builds are 11:1+.  He recommended his #2 cam and piston for my needs:

"11.0:1 Wiseco #2 cam and springs...  You will be so happy"

 

Frank is not a man of many words but every word counts!

 Ok thank but how much for the kit and installation you think?

[VortecCPI]

 Ok thank but how much for the kit and installation you think?

 

I got my Web cam, Wiseco piston, and genuine Honda gaskets for $308.  As far as install you will have to shop.  If you have any small engine experience and a good set of tools you can do it yourself.

[CaQCRider]

I got my Web cam, Wiseco piston, and genuine Honda gaskets for $308.  As far as install you will have to shop.  If you have any small engine experience and a good set of tools you can do it yourself.

Ok thank it will be little bit expensive because with the exchange rate i believe the Canadian dollars fell bellow the 70 cents us dollars.But 308 $ it's a good deal!

[teamrude]

Before you order wiseco be sure your cylinder "mics" out perfect. If you have any wear suggest you do a fresh bore. Either #1 or #2 from Frank is a good cam. Pick cam on "ACTUAL" needs or type of riding you do. If playing in tight trails or you like to lug motor in lower rpms the #1 is better. If a little faster trails or you ride mostly in mid to upper go with #2. The new ST series cams I made are super torkers up to midrange torkers. Just listen to a few of the people on this forum and do all as a package. Piston, Cam, Gaskets and I will throw in the Pro-Com box for added bottom to mid as it is cheap bang for the buck. Make sure jetting, airbox and exhaust mods and you will be happy. Butt dyno is sometimes more important than peak dyno numbers. Think of it this way. You have a 500 HP 327 Chevy and a 500 HP 400 chevy. Both make 500 HP but 400 chevy has more torque and much easier to drive around town. Same with combo kit above. Not huge difference in actual HP numbers but feels like you put a larger motor in it. Easier to ride, stronger bottom to upper mid and you can gear up if needed and also you shift less in trails. A win win.