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Which Header Pipe - FMF or?

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Hi All-

 

Here's a list of what my bike will have by end of winter mod season:

 

Procom CDI

Uni intake filter

removed intake snorkel

removed exhaust baffle

120main, 45pilot, 2003 needle at 4th slot from top

 

For whatever it's worth I'm already running MT16 tires, tripett damper rod mods and a brand new fox shock so I think maxing out performance this winter makes sense. Next winter I'll do a cam and larger piston.

 

My questions:

 

1) Should I consider a header too and if so which one, FMF or another? Doesn't VortecCPI recommend Engines Only headers now?

2) Will the header chosen above fit on the stock muffler?

3) What about this power ring, is it worth it?

4) Does the power ring make the exhaust quieter than my de-baffled stock muffler? I'm all for quiet.

5) What's the recommended main jet based on the choices above?

Edited by xplodee

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It's pricy but you will receive the best results from the complete exhaust system from EO.

It's all because of the internal reverse cone megaphone.

No other system has that feature that I am aware of. Plus on top of that,the noise level is adjustable.

And it's stainless steel as well as quiet right out of the box.

Hands down it's the best quality, most powerful system commercially available.

If you can afford it, you will not be disappointed .

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Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it. I looked that one over and it does seem very well crafted but I just can't get past the looks of the high pipe sticking out the back nearly over the fender. That and the added $350 make it a no-go for me :/ 

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Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it. I looked that one over and it does seem very well crafted but I just can't get past the looks of the high pipe sticking out the back nearly over the fender. That and the added $350 make it a no-go for me :/ 

 

Aftermarket exhaust systems should be judged by fit, finish, and performance, not by looks.  Looks don't count for much and as my father used to say "...chrome won't get you home...".  And as Frank always says "...it sure looks good in the winner's circle..."

 

The EO system is the only stepped reverse cone megaphone system on the market that is spark arrested, has a heat shield, is 96 dB legal/compliant, and constructed of 100% stainless steel.  It was designed by Frank Nye to make more power everywhere and it does.  You will find nothing out there even remotely close.  From what I have seen the Yoshimura system is close in terms of fit, finish, and materials but it is not a true megaphone.  It is a multi-step design, which is similar to a megaphone but not the same.  It also costs $400 or more.  Megaphones are extremely difficult and expensive to fabricate correctly.

 

I have discussed this system in great detail with Terry Miller after getting permission from Frank Nye.  The dimensions of Frank's system are so close to Terry's "best" system the difference isn't even worth mentioning.  When two of the finest builders/racers/tuners in our country end up at the same place you know for sure you have put your hands on something very special.  This thing works and you have to experience it to understand it.  It literately feels like you have increased CR or increased cam size or increased displacement when it starts working.  Like a whole new engine on top.  Quite amazing.

 

I can not argue with the price being high.  You get what you pay for.  Period.

 

All that being said the next best option is an oversize head pipe and EO PoweRing with 110 main.  The stock exhaust system is actually quite light and Mike Coe was able to get good results using it.  You can get a cheap aftermarket exhaust system but please beware.  Many of them are not spark arrested, have no heat shield, and are not 96 dB legal/compliant!  Once you buy all the necessary additional parts to be spark arrested and 96 dB legal/compliant you may end up with no more performance than the stock system.  Frank's system makes more power while being light, legal, and quiet.  An amazing testament to his R&D work.

Edited by VortecCPI
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never mind! you answered the questions

Just my opinion. Before spending that much money on a pipe I would get a high compression piston and a cam. I haven't tried the pipe but I am very confident in saying a piston+cam+port matching will give more power.

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Yap Yap - I agree but would prefer to wait to open up the engine until next winter. Just don't have the time right now.

 

VortecCPI- if I go with a power bomb header only and given the above mods already done, is a 120main ok?

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Yap Yap - I agree but would prefer to wait to open up the engine until next winter. Just don't have the time right now.

 

VortecCPI- if I go with a power bomb header only and given the above mods already done, is a 120main ok?

 

At sea level in the summer a 120 main will be good and safe.  If you go with a PoweRing a 110 main is required.

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Im very happy with my Yosh header and muffler,its real Quite,fit- finish perfect.At 230$ it was hard to beat.My gut feeling,I would not put it on stock motor.I can not knock other pipes,having more or less power.Also Im going by(Means nothing) my Xr440.I have used over 7 different header/muffler combos.The Yosh on that bike cant be beat.I also feel for mild build,the stock header/muffler with baffle out runs great.

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Thank you everyone! I ended up grabbing the FMF powerbomb header off of Amazon for $149 shipped. Seems like a cheap way of getting proven bolt on performance. Thanks specifically VortecCPI for your detailed thread on this part. I bought the header late last night after reading the entire thing

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My two cents:

I realize that many folks are more than pleased with the Bomb header but I cannot understand why they designed it with a built in restricter in the very end of it? They swedged it down just to fit into the stock gasket in the stock muffler. Doesn't that defeat the oversize of the header? Makes no sense on why they ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1453268945.551160.jpgcut corners when all other oversized headers fit perfectly into the stock muffler with out the stock gasket.

(No it will not and does not leak without the gasket)

If I acquired a bomb header cheap enough, I would remove the restriction and replace it with a length of tubing that slides perfectly into the muffler without a gasket to take full advantage of the oversize for the

Entire length of the oversize header, weld in place, good to go.

But one should not need to do that when paying that much $ for it in the first place...

IMO:

If the restriction worked so well, several manufactures would do the same thing, and they don't!

After all, I don't think the restriction is Patented/trademarked/ copyrighted of what ever the "bomb" part is?

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I can add little bit to FMF power bomb header.Again not on my 230,but on my wr450.Over stock header,it did give it slight more torque.Also mellowed out 50hp hit,a good thing.It also cut over rev top end,no matter dont ride it there.Over all happy with it,till the weld on the bulge part broke open.Since that 07 wr450 had over 48,000 miles on it.I would say the header lasted ok.

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My two cents:

I realize that many folks are more than pleased with the Bomb header but I cannot understand why they designed it with a built in restricter in the very end of it? They swedged it down just to fit into the stock gasket in the stock muffler. Doesn't that defeat the oversize of the header? Makes no sense on why they 📎ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1453268945.551160.jpgcut corners when all other oversized headers fit perfectly into the stock muffler with out the stock gasket.

(No it will not and does not leak without the gasket)

After all, I don't think the restriction is Patented/trademarked/ copyrighted of what ever the "bomb" part is?

 

Swaging is not a cost-cutting step.  In fact, it is quite an expensive step.  I have worked with fabrication shops for coal-fired power plants for decades and swaging is not cheap, which is why others do not do it.  It requires at a minimum:

  • Item moved to area
  • Item positioned in jig
  • Swaging operation
  • Item removed from jig
  • Item moved out of area
  • Additional quality check(s)
  • Occasional swage die check
  • Occasional swage die replacement
  • Possibly an extra operator on the fab floor

All of the above steps go to Loss, not Profit so there is an overwhelming reason FMF is doing this.  In the case of steam circuits for power generation a swage step reduces time to weld two tube ends with mismatched ODs. The cost of swaging is less than the cost of welding mismatched tube ends.

 

The FMF pipe is considerably thinner than the stock head pipe so the ID of the exit is still larger than the stock head pipe exit.  In fact the area at the exit is 12% larger than the stock exit, which is not a big difference but big enough.

 

I contacted FMF about this particular feature and was told after extensive dyno testing this ended up being the "best" overall configuration.  That does not really surprise me given the tiny opening in the muffler pipe entrance and the fact testing was done with a stock engine.

 

On a modified engine I agree 100% this step-down and the small muffler inlet pipe are an issue.  Frank's mid pipe and muffler inlet pipe are 64% larger than the stock items and my engine makes more power everywhere with Frank's system.  Mike Coe says the stock system is just fine but Frank Nye and Terry Miller say it is too small.

 

There is no way FMF would add this expensive fabrication step if they did not verify there was some sort of value to both the buyer and FMF.

 

Rick Ramsey tried both the FMF and Powroll head pipes and found the FMF works just as good but makes less noise.

Edited by VortecCPI
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Swaging is not a cost-cutting step. In fact, it is quite an expensive step. I have worked with fabrication shops for coal-fired power plants for decades and swaging is not cheap, which is why others do not do it. It requires at a minimum:

  • Item moved to area
  • Item positioned in jig
  • Swaging operation
  • Item removed from jig
  • Item moved out of area
  • Additional quality check(s)
  • Occasional swage die check
  • Occasional swage die replacement
  • Possibly an extra operator on the fab floor
All of the above steps go to Loss, not Profit so there is an overwhelming reason FMF is doing this. In the case of steam circuits for power generation a swage step reduces time to weld two tube ends with mismatched ODs. The cost of swaging is less than the cost of welding mismatched tube ends.

The FMF pipe is considerably thinner than the stock head pipe so the ID of the exit is still larger than the stock head pipe exit. In fact the area at the exit is 12% larger than the stock exit, which is not a big difference but big enough.

I contacted FMF about this particular feature and was told after extensive dyno testing this ended up being the "best" overall configuration. That does not really surprise me given the tiny opening in the muffler pipe entrance and the fact testing was done with a stock engine.

On a modified engine I agree 100% this step-down and the small muffler inlet pipe are an issue. Frank's mid pipe and muffler inlet pipe are 64% larger than the stock items and my engine makes more power everywhere with Frank's system. Mike Coe says the stock system is just fine but Frank Nye and Terry Miller say it is too small.

There is no way FMF would add this expensive fabrication step if they did not verify there was some sort of value to both the buyer and FMF.

Rick Ramsey tried both the FMF and Powroll head pipes and found the FMF works just as good but makes less noise.

They could have gone to the extra trouble and time to swage it larger to fit the stock muffler perfectly.

I'm sticking to my theory that they were worried about the liability of exhaust leaks and did the extra steps to make it fit the stock gasket, knowing it's not a performance model bike, but the owners have to have a "bomb" pipe on there bike just like the big boys do.

Plus it does make the bike work a little better...and more quiet, which is good also...

But since it is about users being focused on the "bomb" we're not supposed to notice the restrictor at the end of the header....

But, again , it's just me thinking out loud....

Edited by adnohguy

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They could have gone to the extra trouble and time to swage it larger to fit the stock muffler perfectly.

I'm sticking to my theory that they were worried about the liability of exhaust leaks and did the extra steps to make it fit the stock gasket, knowing it's not a performance model bike, but the owners have to have a "bomb" pipe on there bike just like the big boys do.

Plus it does make the bike work a little better...and more quiet, which is good also...

But since it is about users being focused on the "bomb" we're not supposed to notice the restrictor at the end of the header....

But, again , it's just me thinking out loud....

 

Agreed on all points.  The "bomb" section supposedly makes the pipe perform equivalent to a pipe 10% larger.  I have no idea if that means 10% larger OD or 10% larger area.  In either case it is substantial.

 

The other interesting thing about the FMF head pipe is that the bend radius is very short and the overall length is shorter than a stock head pipe.  According to both Frank Nye and Terry Miller the head pipe needs to be a very specific length, which Frank Nye's Outlaw system achieves.  Frank's head pipe has a longer bend radius and the overall length is longer than the stock head pipe.

 

I have never tried a Powroll or XRs Only override head pipe so I can not comment as to performance comparison.

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Just to refresh your memory:

 

S150318A.jpg

 

S150318B.jpg

 

 

There may be exhaust pipes out there that yield more power, low and/or high end, but I'll bet none of them are as quiet as the FMF.  Barely louder than stock.

 

My 230Fs pull so much better off the bottom and mid-range that I have no problems with riding anything I please in the Rockies of central Colorado.

 

Best bet yet for the cost that I've found.

 

 

When I tried the Powroll header, my 230F was noticeably quicker but way too loud for my taste.

It lost a little off the bottom end, also.

But if anyone wants the Powroll, I'll be happy to be rid of it.

 

 

PS Here is sawatch's bike, with kewl pipe protector:

 

 

SawatchFMFPowerBomb.jpg

 

 

 

 

:ride:

Edited by ramz
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Rick - Thank you for clarifying.

 

I sold my FMF head pipe to FrickinJim and he really likes it:

 

"I don't know what to say... It's amazing! It really opened up the power. I will DEFINITELY post up about this as well as give my review on youtube. I am still working on finishing out my Death Valley trip editing on my down time, so I will get to that when I finish up. This pipe is awesome.

 
Did your bike get quieter with the FMF installed? Mine now seems to have a deeper tone to it with a little less rasp."
 
I have got to admit when I bought mine I wasn't all too sure what to expect.  Based upon all the work Chuck with his XR200s did I knew it would be better but in my case with EO PoweRing and 110 main the difference was quite dramatic.
Edited by VortecCPI

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