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AFR+, Dobeck's Gen4 Fuel Management

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Okay so maybe the title sounds like and advertisement a bit but I don't see much on the site pertaining to the AFR+ that Dobeck Performance made available for our bikes (CRF250L/M), as well as, the Honda Grom, 10-15 CRF250R , 09-15 CRF450R. 

 

At this point I think it is more of two factors as to why I see EJK everywhere and AFR+ no where: price and availability. Most of the parts vendors that we as CRF250L owners deal with offer some kind of Stage 1 kit combo which includes a EJK or the likes. Also, at a whopping $400 from Dobeck the AFR+ is a chunk out of anyone's wallet (CRFonly priced at $356.25 for water resistant, +$25 for waterproof).

 

But I thought I'd share the information I have one my set-up and link Rick Ramsey's site (http://www.rickramsey.net/CRF250Ltuningafr.htm) about his, so that anyone who is on the fence about fuel programmers has somewhere else to look.

 

The Dobeck AFR+ is Dobeck's Gen4 fuel management system that essentially takes their ever popular EJK one step further (maybe more). The AFR+ integrates an Air/Fuel Ratio gauge and Wideband O2 sensor into a programmer setup (Dobeck's bung is Mild Steel; I used a Stainless for the Yoshi system). It's install is relatively easy and about the most trying decision during the whole install is where to locate the O2 sensor and bung on your exhaust.

 

When I started piecing together my "Stage 1" mods I ordered most of my parts separately from different vendors. I picked up a full Yoshimura from SRMoto and my AFR+ from CRFonly, my snorkel I removed but only after a week of running the AFR+ with it installed.

 

I wanted the AFR+ for several reasons over the EJK. The EJK in principle just adds fuel to the factory map and hopes for the best, it runs only open loop and greatly hurts fuel economy and seems to have some stalling issues. The AFR+ can run both Open or Closed loop fueling based on settings and O2 readings. In principle the AFR+ reads an Air/Fuel ratio (AFR) number from the exhaust and the programmer adjusts fueling to achieve the set AFR; which should help with efficiency and make for a superior tuning method.

 

So here are the initial AFR settings Dobeck has the programmer set to for our bikes (They call this Stage 1 settings):

  GRN @ 12.5 YEL @ 13.5 RED @ 12.5 G/B @ 12.8 Y/B @ 11.1 R/B @ 11.8

 

All the settings are Closed loop except for the Green setting which is open loop (at its current settings).

With the Open loop settings the AFR setting value is only a reference to which way the programmer is adjusting the fuel. On Open loop an AFR gauge value of adds 0 fuel, an AFR gauge value of 12.5 adds .5 making the base (light cruise/acceleration/idle) map richer, and an AFR gauge value of 13.5 minus .5 making the base (light cruise/acceleration/idle) map leaner.

 

I hope at this point everyone is still following. :ride:

 

Before I (temporarily) garaged my bike to do, tire changes and fit CBR wheels, I run the bike mainly as a commuter. I have run two tanks through the bike since installation of AFR+ and haven't noticed a significant decrease in fuel economy since the installation. Bike achieved 70 MPG first week of install w/ snorkel still installed, bike spent most time in the green setting which reads back a 14.6 -14.7 AFR value. Second week bike achieved 64.5 MPG w/ snorkel removed, bike took longer to warm up on our low 20 degree mornings we were having and spent most of it's time in green settings reading about 14.7-15.0 AFR values.

 

So my thought here is that the removal of the snorkel leans the bike out a bit. Not sure if I really gained anything from removing it versus leaving it in. It might accelerate a little better but it's hard to tell with the night and day different the AFR+ and exhaust made. Also, another thing to mention is the fuels were different between the two tanks. The first tank was running Regular (87) w/ Ethanol (normal US up to 10%E) and the second tank was Regular (87) 100% gasoline. I'm still saying the weather difference made the fuel economy difference... Although I will continue to log my efficiency to see which adjustments do what.

 

So far only "stutter" I've experienced was I was in one gear too high about midway up a tall hill and the programmer switched from yellow mode to green and back to yellow, drop a gear or give it more throttle and stutter is gone (also, 18 degrees out that night).  

 

I'll post pictures of everything installed later. Rick's location for his bung is further back than I put my bung location (is you look at the recent picture I posted my CRF with orange CBR wheels its the O2 just behind the coolant reservoir plastics). Dobeck's recommendation is no further back than Rick's location, closer to the engine in better but you have to account for things like clearance and possibility of if you dump the bike will you break damage the O2 location.

 

Hope everyone enjoyed that little spill about my experience with the AFR+

 

:ride:

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So you said that pulling the snorkel leaned the mixture out from 14.7ish to 15.0ish. Why didn't the AFR compensate for the changes and maintain the 14.7 AFR?

 

Also, how low of an AFR will it allow? I'm going to need 11.5 or so for my turbo and have been wondering if this will work...

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So you said that pulling the snorkel leaned the mixture out from 14.7ish to 15.0ish. Why didn't the AFR compensate for the changes and maintain the 14.7 AFR?

 

Also, how low of an AFR will it allow? I'm going to need 11.5 or so for my turbo and have been wondering if this will work...

 

The AFR values I reported are based in the Green (Open Loop) settings which work similar to the EJK in the sense that the number your reading on the AFR gauge is the Base fuel map + added/subtracted fuel = true AFR value. Except since it is not a closed loop setting currently, it is not adjusting it to the 14.7 AFR value. From that I would gather that the bike would run leaner without the +5 fuel being added by the programmer (Current setting is 12.5, which is +5 on the gauge, open loop) .

 

This isn't my setup but since I don't currently have my pictures available to me, I borrowed one from the Grom forum. Below is the gauge style I have (Rick's is the older kind). If you adjust the gauge a the way to the left in a closed loop mode you would be targeting a AFR value of 9.6 roughly (which is really rich). Honestly, I  not entirely sure how this system would work with a turbo set-up but Dobeck's technical support and sales team are pretty awesome people to work with. I imagine they would be able to help you with your questions more than I could.

 

new_afr.jpg

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the AFR+ wont work with a turbo you have to have a stand alone fuel system. a draw back of the system used on this bike or possibly with what suppliers are willing to do is the EJK and AFR+ are not party to input data the stock system is using, it has to look at what the stock system is doing with the injector to try and determine what is going on.

from the stock pulse width modulation the AFR+ can pretty easy determine the engine RPM it then has to calculate the width of the pulse to determine load. it doesn't always work so well.

 

the green zone of the AFR+ is open loop because at light thr ottle the stock ECM is using the stock O2 sensor, if you are adding fuel in the green zone, at light throttle the stock ecm is taking it away, at idle and above light load the stock system goes open (only closed loop during what is equal to goverment emission testing) while in factory closed loop if you are adding fuel above a set threshold it triggers a injector reset where the ECM cuts power momentarily to the injector and that in turns triggers the AFR+ to cut fuel. it is a sudden big cough and will get you attention.

 

I run my AFR+ with green zone neutral mode it stops the fault and lets it idle smooth as stock the bike already idles rich. I also found that the Dobek settings are much richer than they need to be and leaning them out in yellow to 14.0-1 preserves the power gain and fuel economy, without it it gets quite lean in yellow zone and produces a pretty significant drop in power. red zone I am at 13.0-1

 

I was a early adopter and bought mine during introductory sale!

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in green zone under light throttle you are in closed loop but it is stock Honda closed loop, if the AFR+ was also in closed loop it would have to be set to exactly what the stock Honda was trying to adjust to or they both would be fighting against each other. if you have green zone set to rich (green zone it just adds a preset amount of fuel like the EJK does) you also set up a conflict.

 

you can unplug the stock O2 sensor and it makes the bike run great but the ECM only tolerates it for a short bit before it goes into limp mode and kills the fun. 

 

aftermarket piggy back fuel systems for other bikes use a dummy load plugged in where the stock O2 sensor goes to get around this, unfortunatly one of these dummy loads are not available for our bike (that I know of yet)

 

yellow and red zone it is closed loop on the AFR+

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Thanks focus frenzy for all the info, I have had this unit for over a month now but still using the EJK ATM :(

 

The "bung" I received is sized for the stock exhaust, no big deal I just grind the curve to fit the Yoshi pipe, but the bung is mild steel & I would rather have stainless same as the Yoshi pipe, in my area it is impossible to get this so I need to order from somewhere, next problem is no place in my area has mig welding machine, only arc, and the guys that do it are "so so" at best, I don't want them to make a mess of my Yoshi pipe!

 

Not sure when I will every get around to doing it but will for sure get one of those simulators so I'm all ready when the time comes. 🙂

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Thanks focus frenzy for all the info, I have had this unit for over a month now but still using the EJK ATM :(

 

The "bung" I received is sized for the stock exhaust, no big deal I just grind the curve to fit the Yoshi pipe, but the bung is mild steel & I would rather have stainless same as the Yoshi pipe, in my area it is impossible to get this so I need to order from somewhere, next problem is no place in my area has mig welding machine, only arc, and the guys that do it are "so so" at best, I don't want them to make a mess of my Yoshi pipe!

 

Not sure when I will every get around to doing it but will for sure get one of those simulators so I'm all ready when the time comes. 🙂

 

I too was not pleased that the Dobeck system came with a mild steel bung. Innovate Motorsports sells stainless bungs on Amazon(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KW4FGK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00). I had ordered one for another project and ended up going a different direction so I had it for this work. I ended up driving 45 minutes away from my town just to find someone who actually knew what they are doing when it comes to welding stainless (it was a plus that he works at a motorsport shop and does moto exhaust for a living).

 

I don't know if I mind the current set up since I commute and the bike sits in the green (light cruise) mode most of the time anyway.

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it is a sudden big cough and will get you attention.

 

I run my AFR+ with green zone neutral mode it stops the fault and lets it idle smooth as stock the bike already idles rich. I also found that the Dobek settings are much richer than they need to be and leaning them out in yellow to 14.0-1 preserves the power gain and fuel economy, without it it gets quite lean in yellow zone and produces a pretty significant drop in power. red zone I am at 13.0-1

 

I was a early adopter and bought mine during introductory sale!

 

I haven't experience a cough like you speak of. Although, I was under the impression that the Honda O2 was only feeding signals when the bike was warming up. It's not a wideband O2, so it's not sending the ECU accurate info. It is only sending it rich or lean data, Although, I wonder what our O2s consider rich and lean.

 

What number are you running on your AFR+? Also, when you say "green zone neutral mode" what do you mean here?  I haven't played with the numbers on mine since install.

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I too was not pleased that the Dobeck system came with a mild steel bung. Innovate Motorsports sells stainless bungs on Amazon(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KW4FGK?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00). I had ordered one for another project and ended up going a different direction so I had it for this work. I ended up driving 45 minutes away from my town just to find someone who actually knew what they are doing when it comes to welding stainless (it was a plus that he works at a motorsport shop and does moto exhaust for a living).

 

I don't know if I mind the current set up since I commute and the bike sits in the green (light cruise) mode most of the time anyway.

 

Thanks pal, US$15.88 + US$32.56 shipping,  and this includes a saving of US$28.12 LOL.. I cannot bring myself to pay this amount, but thanks anyway bud, I will get something somewhere.

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Thanks pal, US$15.88 + US$32.56 shipping,  and this includes a saving of US$28.12 LOL.. I cannot bring myself to pay this amount, but thanks anyway bud, I will get something somewhere.

 

Just saw you were in the Philippines. Yeah maybe you could order something from a closer country to you. 

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I haven't experience a cough like you speak of. Although, I was under the impression that the Honda O2 was only feeding signals when the bike was warming up. It's not a wideband O2, so it's not sending the ECU accurate info. It is only sending it rich or lean data, Although, I wonder what our O2s consider rich and lean.

 

What number are you running on your AFR+? Also, when you say "green zone neutral mode" what do you mean here?  I haven't played with the numbers on mine since install.

 

for green zone I have mine set to the needle pointing to 13. in open loop it does not add any fuel . that is the odd ball confusing part about the AFR+,  in green zone the needle pointed at 13 is neutral  go higher, like 14 and you are leaning out (small numbers on dial) lower numbers like 12 is richening, but when it switches to yellow the display switches to ratio and you set the fuel air ratio you want.\

this is only when programming it. while riding the gauge shows what is going on in the combustion chamber and you have the little lights showing the modes it is in. 

 

green I am set to 13 (neutral), yellow is set to 14-1 (a bit rich of stoech), red is at 12.8-1 I will have to check what I have the cross over points and accelerator pump set to.

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I

 

The AFR values I reported are based in the Green (Open Loop) settings which work similar to the EJK in the sense that the number your reading on the AFR gauge is the Base fuel map + added/subtracted fuel = true AFR value. Except since it is not a closed loop setting currently, it is not adjusting it to the 14.7 AFR value. From that I would gather that the bike would run leaner without the +5 fuel being added by the programmer (Current setting is 12.5, which is +5 on the gauge, open loop) .

 

This isn't my setup but since I don't currently have my pictures available to me, I borrowed one from the Grom forum. Below is the gauge style I have (Rick's is the older kind). If you adjust the gauge a the way to the left in a closed loop mode you would be targeting a AFR value of 9.6 roughly (which is really rich). Honestly, I  not entirely sure how this system would work with a turbo set-up but Dobeck's technical support and sales team are pretty awesome people to work with. I imagine they would be able to help you with your questions more than I could.

 

new_afr.jpg

 had to go looking to see what that OPMID thing was!

https://www.steadygarage.com/store/two-wheels/mc-parts/honda-grom-msx-125/opmid-top-indicator-thermometer-voltmeter-gauge-w-mount-grom-125

 

cool gizmo! we have alot of cool farkles available for our bike, but it don't touch the huge range of stuff out there for the grom!

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I welded on my first bung but when I switched to the Moriwaki system I drilled the hole where i wanted it but took the pipe down to a well established popular muffler shop in town and they welded on a stainess bung they had in stock.

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for green zone I have mine set to the needle pointing to 13. in open loop it does not add any fuel . that is the odd ball confusing part about the AFR+,  in green zone the needle pointed at 13 is neutral  go higher, like 14 and you are leaning out (small numbers on dial) lower numbers like 12 is richening, but when it switches to yellow the display switches to ratio and you set the fuel air ratio you want.\

this is only when programming it. while riding the gauge shows what is going on in the combustion chamber and you have the little lights showing the modes it is in. 

 

green I am set to 13 (neutral), yellow is set to 14-1 (a bit rich of stoech), red is at 12.8-1 I will have to check what I have the cross over points and accelerator pump set to

 

Thanks for the numbers. I was going to lean mine out more from the original settings but wasn't sure what to do. Good points to think about

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The default settings suck the gas down and can cause stalling issues as it makes idle really rich.

 

Well they sent everyone home today at the office, so I just looked at my bikes settings. Which are the settings that were intially on my programmer when I installed it and they don't really match what Dobeck says are Stage 1 settings.

 

My current settings are:

 

Green = 13, Yellow= 13.5, Red= 12.5, Green/Blue= 12.9, Yellow/Blue= 11.3, Red/Blue= 11.8

 

So that would explain why I don't get the cough you mentioned in the green zone.

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they must read the forums!

 

hobbled out to the bike (torn ligament in ankle) and wrote down my current settings.

 

green=13

yellow=14

red===13 (forgot I leaned it out some more)

green- blue=12.6

yellow blue=10.8

red -blue===12

 

mine came with the stage one settings and mileage took a big hit.

after my tumble in the river in Arkansas I can vouch to the waterproofing of the water proof interface gauge.

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they must read the forums!

 

hobbled out to the bike (torn ligament in ankle) and wrote down my current settings.

 

green=13

yellow=14

red===13 (forgot I leaned it out some more)

green- blue=12.6

yellow blue=10.8

red -blue===12

 

mine came with the stage one settings and mileage took a big hit.

after my tumble in the river in Arkansas I can vouch to the waterproofing of the water proof interface gauge.

Honestly, they probably do watch the forum boards for R&D purposes.

 

There's a video on youtube where someone out the waterproofed gauge under the water and hooks it up and plays with the gauge underwater.

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