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Nuetech TuBliss--made the leap!

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Hey gang, 

 

I made the leap to a tubeless conversion from Nuetech TuBliss today.  (inner tubes are so archaic)

 

My experience thus far is positive and here are some notes and thoughts...

 

1--Unexpectedly, the front tire was much harder to do than the rear due to less interior volume

2--The "rim lock" for the front is a little too wide for my stock "S" front rim with a 90/90-21 Michelin T63.  You can see it pushing out the sidewall a little.  If I had have noticed this earlier I probably would have "modded" the aluminum rim lock to be a little less wide.  Maybe next time

3--Though it did not really matter--make sure you are drilling out your rim lock hole and not your valve stem hole.  I did my first one wrong way but all still fits fine, just makes the front and rear mis-match

4--I have many nice sets of drill bits, none of them had the 7/16th" bit included.  3/8" and a rat tail file worked easily.

5--Powder, talc, the bladder tube and inner liner up real good.  Makes aligning 2 separate valves much much easier

6--Lube, lube, lube--Nuetech recommends using soapy water to keep the rubber parts from binding against one another.  I was trying to do without as I was going to add a sealant and did not want to cross-contaminate but it was hopeless.  I ended up using 90% isopropyl alcohol because I knew it would evaporate.

7--I had a very hard time getting the front tire to "jump up" out of the drop center of the rim and onto the bead in one particularly stubborn spot.  Even at over 70 psi in the tire chamber and 140 psi in the inner bladder it just would not go.  Reluctantly I shot a little bit of WD in the tough spot and it popped up immediately.  The rear went on and up onto the bead easily and immediately. 

8--I chose to add Stans No Tubes tire sealant to them.  Stans sealant is a very low viscosity and it allows you to inject it through the valve very easily after the install. Also Stans No  Tubes sealant does not freeze.  It is a non-fibrous latex based sealant that will not only self-seal punctures up to 1/4" but also lays down a layer of rubber to the inside of the tire and its pores--rendering a regular "tube type" tire more airtight.  I have much experience, and very good luck using this product in my bicycles tubeless wheels and thought it would also be good in the Moto and definitely worth a try.

9--The tires feel great without the extra layer of redundant rubber in them.  Noticeably more supple--and that was at my normal ~15 psi.  Many claim to run far far lower than that.  Which I will be trying more in the future.

10--The balance was definitely required.  I rode them prior to doing a static balance...man it was bad!  I guess the double "valves" and rim-lock etc are a bit weighty. I plan on adding some spoke weights and suspect it will take 2-4 ounces of weight per wheel. (I just went and bought weights, will report back on actual figures)

 

As a lifelong bicycle mechanic I had very little trouble installing the whole setup and was actually shocked that it worked.  Seemed kind of boot-leg in theory, like a janky rig-job.  But in actuality all of the components of the system are pretty clever and work well.  Again, shocked that it went on so easily and worked first try perfectly.  I was totally expecting to have to troubleshoot and fix the system, but that was not the case.  Also as a lifelong bike tech--I have a real distaste for changing inner tubes so making the leap to tubeless was not a real hard sell to me.  And I am also a believer that very low PSI is of a major benefit, especially without the risk of pinch flat or rim-denting.

 

As of now--I would recommend and am fairly pumped about the tubeless potential!

 

Who else is using these things?  What PSI do you like, and how much do you weigh?  How much weight did you have to add to get them to balance?  Or chime in otherwise with feedback and experience.

 

Hope you enjoyed this...I was just fulfilling my TT duty to share

 

Edit--1 day later:  Wheels required about 6 oz (a ton) each of weight to be brought into balance, almost all the weight is needed directly across from the "low pressure/rim lock" valve.  Considering most spoke weights are >1-oz this can look ugly pretty quick.  And I guess if you were being a real weight weenie and taking into account the advertised weight savings of <1 lb.....well factor this in!!  (BTW-the balance was done by a professional mechanic on a Snap-on dynamic balancer--not just the DIY jack stand at home trick)  I had ten 2/3 oz. weights on hand and it was not enough, so we also had to add some stick on weights which do not really work so great on spoked rims.  I am seeking a spoke weight solution in the meantime.

IMG_1629.JPG

IMG_1628.JPG

Edited by kevvyd
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I'm a big fan of WD40 for mounting tires.  Some people say no no that will rot the rubber.  I don't believe that and don't not see that.  Best tire mounting lube I have ever used. Better than dish soap that corrodes aluminum rims.  Thanks for the report on TuBliss.

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Despite the naysayers on Tubliss, I've ridden well over 40,000 miles on two dual sports throughout Mexico on all road conditions over the last 6 years.  I've had one flat that could not be repaired with a plug.

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I use/used Armorall for mounting Tubliss, recommended in the Tubliss directions, on 2 bikes, no problems so far

just sayin'

👍

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Despite the naysayers on Tubliss, I've ridden well over 40,000 miles on two dual sports throughout Mexico on all road conditions over the last 6 years.  I've had one flat that could not be repaired with a plug.

 

I like the sound of that!!

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Hey gang, 

 

I made the leap to a tubeless conversion from Nuetech TuBliss today.  (inner tubes are so archaic)

 

My experience thus far is positive and here are some notes and thoughts...

 

1--Unexpectedly, the front tire was much harder to do than the rear due to less interior volume

2--The "rim lock" for the front is a little too wide for my stock "S" front rim with a 90/90-21 Michelin T63.  You can see it pushing out the sidewall a little.  If I had have noticed this earlier I probably would have "modded" the aluminum rim lock to be a little less wide.  Maybe next time

3--Though it did not really matter--make sure you are drilling out your rim lock hole and not your valve stem hole.  I did my first one wrong way but all still fits fine, just makes the front and rear mis-match

4--I have many nice sets of drill bits, none of them had the 7/16th" bit included.  3/8" and a rat tail file worked easily.

5--Powder, talc, the bladder tube and inner liner up real good.  Makes aligning 2 separate valves much much easier

6--Lube, lube, lube--Nuetech recommends using soapy water to keep the rubber parts from binding against one another.  I was trying to do without as I was going to add a sealant and did not want to cross-contaminate but it was hopeless.  I ended up using 90% isopropyl alcohol because I knew it would evaporate.

7--I had a very hard time getting the front tire to "jump up" out of the drop center of the rim and onto the bead in one particularly stubborn spot.  Even at over 70 psi in the tire chamber and 140 psi in the inner bladder it just would not go.  Reluctantly I shot a little bit of WD in the tough spot and it popped up immediately.  The rear went on and up onto the bead easily and immediately. 

8--I chose to add Stans No Tubes tire sealant to them.  Stans sealant is a very low viscosity and it allows you to inject it through the valve very easily after the install. Also Stans No  Tubes sealant does not freeze.  It is a non-fibrous latex based sealant that will not only self-seal punctures up to 1/4" but also lays down a layer of rubber to the inside of the tire and its pores--rendering a regular "tube type" tire more airtight.  I have much experience, and very good luck using this product in my bicycles tubeless wheels and thought it would also be good in the Moto and definitely worth a try.

9--The tires feel great without the extra layer of redundant rubber in them.  Noticeably more supple--and that was at my normal ~15 psi.  Many claim to run far far lower than that.  Which I will be trying more in the future.

10--The balance was definitely required.  I rode them prior to doing a static balance...man it was bad!  I guess the double "valves" and rim-lock etc are a bit weighty. I plan on adding some spoke weights and suspect it will take 2-4 ounces of weight per wheel. (I just went and bought weights, will report back on actual figures)

 

As a lifelong bicycle mechanic I had very little trouble installing the whole setup and was actually shocked that it worked.  Seemed kind of boot-leg in theory, like a janky rig-job.  But in actuality all of the components of the system are pretty clever and work well.  Again, shocked that it went on so easily and worked first try perfectly.  I was totally expecting to have to troubleshoot and fix the system, but that was not the case.  Also as a lifelong bike tech--I have a real distaste for changing inner tubes so making the leap to tubeless was not a real hard sell to me.  And I am also a believer that very low PSI is of a major benefit, especially without the risk of pinch flat or rim-denting.

 

As of now--I would recommend and am fairly pumped about the tubeless potential!

 

Who else is using these things?  What PSI do you like, and how much do you weigh?  How much weight did you have to add to get them to balance?  Or chime in otherwise with feedback and experience.

 

Hope you enjoyed this...I was just fulfilling my TT duty to share

 

Edit--1 day later:  Wheels required about 6 oz (a ton) each of weight to be brought into balance, almost all the weight is needed directly across from the "low pressure/rim lock" valve.  Considering most spoke weights are >1-oz this can look ugly pretty quick.  And I guess if you were being a real weight weenie and taking into account the advertised weight savings of <1 lb.....well factor this in!!  (BTW-the balance was done by a professional mechanic on a Snap-on dynamic balancer--not just the DIY jack stand at home trick)  I had ten 2/3 oz. weights on hand and it was not enough, so we also had to add some stick on weights which do not really work so great on spoked rims.  I am seeking a spoke weight solution in the meantime.

 

I didn't mount them myself, the local Motoshop did it for me. I've had them now for about a year and have absolutely NO problems. I run a MX52 front in 80-100-21 and a Kenda "sticky" Washougal 120-100-18 rear. I run 12lbs on the front and 10 out back. I also only ride in the dirt and some of it is desert, but some of it is fire road dual trak trails. I also deviate quite a bit so there is a huge mix of what kind of ground I run in and I really like the low pressures for traction. Desert stuff pushes the envelope speedwise...sometimes 60-70-mph, while woods riding is probably 50 or less.......kind of depends.

 

I do have rim locks........

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The only downside for me and Tubliss is that in Mexico we have gas station attendants and compressed air (free).  After getting spoiled with that, when I rode in the states I was real annoyed trying to find an air compressor to check and keep the tire bladders at 100 PSI. Several times they were down to 60/70 PSI and I rode anyway without problems but I did not feel comfortable with that.  I don't have a car other than my wife's so my bike is my best friend.

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Yikes!!  What 6.25 oz. of looks like

 

I was reading another post about this,  Some guys choose to mount the "rim-lock/low pressure" valve more like 180 degrees from the "high pressure" bladder valve rather than the suggested 4 spokes apart from each other suggestion.  I think it would make the install a little more touchy, but would be worth doing! 

IMG_1635.JPG

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The only downside for me and Tubliss is that in Mexico we have gas station attendants and compressed air (free).  After getting spoiled with that, when I rode in the states I was real annoyed trying to find an air compressor to check and keep the tire bladders at 100 PSI. Several times they were down to 60/70 PSI and I rode anyway without problems but I did not feel comfortable with that.  I don't have a car other than my wife's so my bike is my best friend.

 

I carry one of these, and they'll get you over 100 PSI easily.

81UbfGDH7EL._SY355_.jpg

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Never heard of anyone "needing" to balance a Tubliss-equipped tire. I can't tell the difference on my KXF.

 

 

 

What you have heard then is totally incorrect.   Unbalanced Tubliss equipped tires as well as single rim lock wheels produce vibration, wobbling and sometimes even instability at higher speeds, especially noticeable on smooth surfaces.  If you never travel at 50+ mph then it is easier to live with these deficiencies.

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Most folks eventually settle on about 8 psi front, 5 psi rear. Messes with your comfort level at first but soon you'll be fine going really low. I have had 3 flats. No problem, just rode on the rest of the day. I have a 30 dollar bicycle tube that measures up to like 160 psi. I keep it in my truck, checking air is last step before riding. The peace of mind and lack of crap to lug around is priceless.

Now, get a trials type rear tire and pump to 5 psi. You will climb like a spider.

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Seldom over 50

 

What you have heard then is totally incorrect.   Unbalanced Tubliss equipped tires as well as single rim lock wheels produce vibration, wobbling and sometimes even instability at higher speeds, especially noticeable on smooth surfaces.  If you never travel at 50+ mph then it is easier to live with these deficiencies.

 

Yeah, seldom over 50 mph on the KX250F. Usually riding sandy winding trails or rocky hilly stuff. One less thing to worry about, but glad those who need to balance have a solution.

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INFO FROM NUETECH: Thought this was interesting,

 

"BALANCE: Most new knobby tires are out of balance and are marked with a white or yellow dot or circle on the sidewall; this mark is generally the LIGHT SPOT of the tire and should be aligned with the rim lock for best balance. For high speed riding, it is important to have the wheel balanced for best results."

 

TUbliss is for OFF-ROAD USE ONLY and is NOT recommended for street use. – USING THE CORRECT TIRE for your riding is VERY IMPORTANT! For extremely rocky conditions (especially at high speed), make sure to use a tough 6 ply, desert-type tire to reduce the risk of cutting and punctures.

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Most folks eventually settle on about 8 psi front, 5 psi rear. Messes with your comfort level at first but soon you'll be fine going really low. I have had 3 flats. No problem, just rode on the rest of the day. I have a 30 dollar bicycle tube that measures up to like 160 psi. I keep it in my truck, checking air is last step before riding. The peace of mind and lack of crap to lug around is priceless.

Now, get a trials type rear tire and pump to 5 psi. You will climb like a spider.

 

+1 on all that!

It only takes like 3-4 hits on the regular bicycle pump to get back to 100+

And a small plug kit--Like from DynaPlug is all you need to carry--if even that!

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INFO FROM NUETECH: Thought this was interesting,

 

"BALANCE: Most new knobby tires are out of balance and are marked with a white or yellow dot or circle on the sidewall; this mark is generally the LIGHT SPOT of the tire and should be aligned with the rim lock for best balance. For high speed riding, it is important to have the wheel balanced for best results."

 

TUbliss is for OFF-ROAD USE ONLY and is NOT recommended for street use. – USING THE CORRECT TIRE for your riding is VERY IMPORTANT! For extremely rocky conditions (especially at high speed), make sure to use a tough 6 ply, desert-type tire to reduce the risk of cutting and punctures.

Yeah,  I read that about the light spot on the tire.  The T63 michelin I put on had no discriminating marks...wish it did!

And I will tell you, my bike was shaking like it had Parkinson's anywhere over 35-40 mph on the street before the balance.

I was reading some content from this guy  http://www.masterspokesman.com He said it is not uncommon at all to need 6-8 oz to balance TuBliss wheels.  And had lots of experience and tricks to do it more slickly.

 

I would also speculate that they have to say it is for "off-road" only because of a lack of DOT certification. (wonder how much that process costs)  Also I think their liability when people forget to top up the high pressure bladder would be much much more great, and disastrous out on the streets!

Edited by kevvyd

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+1 on all that!

It only takes like 3-4 hits on the regular bicycle pump to get back to 100+

And a small plug kit--Like from DynaPlug is all you need to carry--if even that!

I bought the patch kit at an auto parts store. First time trying to fix a puncture, I was confused. Youtube has good vids on it, and fixes easy and quick once you understand the technique.

 

But, you DO NOT need to bring the stuff out on the trail. If your tire goes flat you just keep riding....in fact it might be some of your best traction ever if it's on the rear. Tubliss is not DOT approved. But, i regularly run on the street, but long fast and hot temps are a "potential" risk. But, your tire isn't going to magically explode if you take a short trip around town or hit some pavement on a long dual sport journey.

 

 

IMHO, Tubliss is THE best invention for off road motorcycles since I first rode a bike back in 1981. 

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Never heard of anyone "needing" to balance a Tubliss-equipped tire. I can't tell the difference on my KXF.

Balancing a 16# tire/wheel combo that needs a minimum of 6.5oz. makes all the sense in the world.  Otherwise, why would you need to balance a truck tire on an HD pickup with 2oz when the tire/wheel combo weighs 80#'s?

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Recently, I decided to give the current generation of Tubliss a try.  Didn't have to use a tire iron one on the Tubliss itself.  That surprised me.  Not sure how many of you really think about this but lessening the unsprung weight of a wheel/tire is huge in terms of suspension functionality.  There's more benefit than just the added traction of lower tire pressures and no tube to pinch.  FWIW.    

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I just don't see the benefits of this system, especially the way I see most dual sporters using it. It's expensive and it's finicky. And unless you want to run 8 psi off road there's virtually nothing it can do that standard tubed tires can do.

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