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Decided to keep the 230 over a new crf250x

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Extra funds are not as plentiful as I would like, therefore I would like to get the most from my 230. My son picks on me, he rides a  250r and 450r. He claims I have no power..... but I have traction, and can go almost anywhere. My 230 may not be ideal, but I would not know what ideal is anyway. All I know is that I want traction. Controlled hill climbs from traction, not momentum. I had much considered the crf250x, and may eventually, but would rather keep the 230 and max out it's potential. I have opened the air box and jetted accordingly. LOL, I experimented with uncorking today. I have always hated a loud bike, but I have recently been helping my son get "cut in views" on his you tube dirtbike channel. I hate how the 230 sounds wimpy through my gopro. So when the snow melts away, I will see how I like the sound and then rejet if I like the net sound it produces on youtube.  I only removed the inner,not the entire baffle. Any other mod advice would be appreciated. Not interested in a premature big bore, but maybe when the time comes. 

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ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1453517588.105996.jpg

Try this, makes my bike sound like a 250

You may like it, it's not to loud in my opinion.

This one is made from stainless

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For slow short tight technical work a properly-setup CRF230, like an XR200, is tough to beat.  For fast long open work a CRF250X or XR250 would be a better choice.  The slower and tighter it gets the more the CRF230 shines.  Once the suspension is fixed add a cam and piston and you have all you need.  But if you do need more you have Frank Nye and Terry Miller just waiting to help you out.

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For slow short tight technical work a properly-setup CRF230, like an XR200, is tough to beat.  For fast long open work a CRF250X or XR250 would be a better choice.  The slower and tighter it gets the more the CRF230 shines.  Once the suspension is fixed add a cam and piston and you have all you need.  But if you do need more you have Frank Nye and Terry Miller just waiting to help you out.

Just a cam and piston... or a boring out then cam and piston. 

 

And secondly, is there a point in power gains where my advantage over others from traction is diminished. Example, my sons 450r is worthless in the woods for many reasons but the one I am thinking of is that he gets zero traction

Edited by 1gr8bldr

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Just throw a Wiesco or Wossner 11.1 piston in it and if the bore is good leave it. Web cam and Kimmble White springs are a good choice. This will run on pump gas fine and wake the bike up a lot. Contact Bruce Triplett or John Helbo to rework the forks and rear shock which will make the bike a lot safer with all that extra power. Both can be reworked for less than a new rear shock. These mods will cost about a grand but makes this bullet proof bike a different animal.

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Just a cam and piston... or a boring out then cam and piston. 

 

And secondly, is there a point in power gains where my advantage over others from traction is diminished. Example, my sons 450r is worthless in the woods for many reasons but the one I am thinking of is that he gets zero traction

 

The need for bore is dictated by cylinder condition.  Of course there is no replacement for displacement!

 

You can see from my signature what I have done to my bike.  We ride slow.  Very slow.  Average speed is usually a whopping 10 MPH and maximum speed is usually a whopping 45 MPH.  We need off-idle and low-mid power and a lot of it.  My engine gives me significantly more than a stock engine but it is still 100% predictable and linear in nature.  I use an IRC VE-33 and I have outstanding traction.

 

To give you an idea of power increase here is an example.  We have a nasty hill climb that is mostly dirt and roots and very steep;.  Typically we do this climb in second gear and it is difficult for the rider but no problem for the engine.  The last time I did this same climb I hit it in third gear and the engine managed it no problem.  In fact, I chose a bad line and had to abort even though the engine was still pulling like a Cummins diesel.  I was going taster due to third gear so the bike outdid my skills.

 

With the cam and piston my engine is even more forgiving than it was stock.  Increasing CR increases power everywhere; from idle to the top.  Changing the cam is a different story.  The cam profile dictates when and where maximum cylinder pressure will occur.  Cams like the Web 40mc/402 raise cylinder pressure at low engine speeds, forsaking cylinder pressure at high engine speeds.  That means more power down low and less power up high.  Cams like the Web 89a raise cylinder pressure at high engines speeds, forsaking cylinder pressure at low engine speeds.  That means less power down low and more power up high. Then we have intake centerline angle and LC Angle which also play into when and where power is made.  Advancing the cam moves power lower and retarding the cam moves power higher.  Close LCA moves power to the middle and wide LCA spreads the power out.

 

Simplified?  40mc/402 means shift sooner and you go faster.  89a means shift later and you go faster.  FirckinJim switched from an 89a to 40mc/402 and found the faster/sooner he shifts the faster he goes.  To give you a idea my CRF230 chugs like a miniature XR600.  It is almost stall-proof.  It can be lugged to 1,400 RPM and can still go right to the rev limiter no problem.  It is an AMAZING little engine.

 

And then we have exhaust system design.  A larger head pipe and mid pipe increases power quite a bit.  Then we have stepped head pipes and even stepped mid pipes.  Then we have tuning via length and even tuning via megaphones and reverse cone megaphones.

 

Enough already.  Sorry...

 

If you want a great engine talk to Terry Miller and he will set you up with a custom cam just for your needs.  His cams are superior to the 40mc/402 because he is making adjustments to compensate for the crappy intake port.  Had his cams been ready at the time I would have used one in mine FOR SURE.

 

If you consider the XR200 is 10.25:1 and has a cam +10i/+15e bigger/longer than the CRF230 cam this engine is just begging for more.

Edited by VortecCPI
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The need for bore is dictated by cylinder condition.  Of course there is no replacement for displacement!

 

You can see from my signature what I have done to my bike.  We ride slow.  Very slow.  Average speed is usually a whopping 10 MPH and maximum speed is usually a whopping 45 MPH.  We need off-idle and low-mid power and a lot of it.  My engine gives me significantly more than a stock engine but it is still 100% predictable and linear in nature.  I use an IRC VE-33 and I have outstanding traction.

 

To give you an idea of power increase here is an example.  We have a nasty hill climb that is mostly dirt and roots and very steep;.  Typically we do this climb in second gear and it is difficult for the rider but no problem for the engine.  The last time I did this same climb I hit it in third gear and the engine managed it no problem.  In fact, I chose a bad line and had to abort even though the engine was still pulling like a Cummins diesel.  I was going taster due to third gear so the bike outdid my skills.

 

With the cam and piston my engine is even more forgiving than it was stock.  Increasing CR increases power everywhere; from idle to the top.  Changing the cam is a different story.  The cam profile dictates when and where maximum cylinder pressure will occur.  Cams like the Web 40mc/402 raise cylinder pressure at low engine speeds, forsaking cylinder pressure at high engine speeds.  That means more power down low and less power up high.  Cams like the Web 89a raise cylinder pressure at high engines speeds, forsaking cylinder pressure at low engine speeds.  That means less power down low and more power up high. Then we have intake centerline angle and LC Angle which also play into when and where power is made.  Advancing the cam moves power lower and retarding the cam moves power higher.  Close LCA moves power to the middle and wide LCA spreads the power out.

 

Simplified?  40mc/402 means shift sooner and you go faster.  89a means shift later and you go faster.  FirckinJim switched from an 89a to 40mc/402 and found the faster/sooner he shifts the faster he goes.  To give you a idea my CRF230 chugs like a miniature XR600.  It is almost stall-proof.  It can be lugged to 1,400 RPM and can still go right to the rev limiter no problem.  It is an AMAZING little engine.

 

And then we have exhaust system design.  A larger head pipe and mid pipe increases power quite a bit.  Then we have stepped head pipes and even stepped mid pipes.  Then we have tuning via length and even tuning via megaphones and reverse cone megaphones.

 

Enough already.  Sorry...

 

If you want a great engine talk to Terry Miller and he will set you up with a custom cam just for your needs.  His cams are superior to the 40mc/402 because he is making adjustments to compensate for the crappy intake port.  Had his cams been ready at the time I would have used one in mine FOR SURE.

 

If you consider the XR200 is 10.25:1 and has a cam +10i/+15e bigger/longer than the CRF230 cam this engine is just begging for more.

I really appreciate how well you explain your points. Helps me to understand so much better.

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Vortec my 2007 is going to get the Wossner/40mc/402 upgrade next, not sure when but soon. I will get to see first hand the difference between the 89A and 40mc/402 on two identicle bikes. 😉

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Vortec my 2007 is going to get the Wossner/40mc/402 upgrade next, not sure when but soon. I will get to see first hand the difference between the 89A and 40mc/402 on two identicle bikes. 😉

 

I am looking forward to hearing about it.  FrickinJim seemed a bit worried at first but once he learned to shift early he was really happy.

 

From Jim:

 

"One more thing. Last weekend I was able to go for the first true off-road ride with the 340/402. No camping gear attached or anything, just me and another 230 rider out there playing around on our bikes. The 340/402 is CRAZY GOOD for the trails. That thing lugs so hard. Second, third, fourth, even fifth and sixth gear you can lug around at low speeds and still torque the rear end around and lift the front end up at will. I couldn't believe it. I don't even think I can post the video I recorded... too much giggling because of what this cam can do. Bike's like a dang 650 in the low end now. You were right about this cam. Now I have the head pipe on there and I'm pretty sure it's more powerful overall than it ever was with the 89a. I'm still going to have Terry do some porting and install oversize valves in the head, but I'm going to play with this cam for a while longer. I can only imagine how fun your bike must be with the Outlaw system."

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Vortec my 2007 is going to get the Wossner/40mc/402 upgrade next, not sure when but soon. I will get to see first hand the difference between the 89A and 40mc/402 on two identicle bikes. 😉

Please do not forget that the 40mc/402 DOES NOtT need heavy valve springs! Don't wast your $ on big springs! Stock springs are ideal with that cam.

HOWEVER:

ANY Web cam SHOULD. Have NEW rocker arms installed, just to be safe from abnormal wear problems.

They cost WAY less than heavy springs!

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Please do not forget that the 40mc/402 DOES NOtT need heavy valve springs! Don't wast your $ on big springs! Stock springs are ideal with that cam.

HOWEVER:

ANY Web cam SHOULD. Have NEW rocker arms installed, just to be safe from abnormal wear problems.

They cost WAY less than heavy springs!

Thanks for the advise as I was wondering about new springs. I got new rockers for the last build with my BBR kit and 89a from MRcycles.com for like $32 each. I can't imagine what kinda of torque the 40mc/402 will give over the 89a as the 89a cammed bikes we have now are torque monsters. Gonna be fun and can't wait.

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The 40mc will produce approx 10% more torque from idle up to the limiter than an 89a

It will easily rev to the limiter but you will soon realize "why" and learn to short shift sooner and sooner than your used to doing.

You will be smiling a lot more under your helmet than you ever thought possible before.

You can just feel the cam working in its "Sweet Spot" and will shift up to keep it there more than before.

Next, thing is you may find yourself looking to purchase a larger counter shaft sprocket because the "Sweet Spot" will be addicting, and you have have just "got to have even more"

I suspect you will be hooked sooner rather than later?

Want more? IMO:

The third weak link in a 230 engine is the Intake port.

PROPERLY porting it won't wake up your engine las much as compression and your new cam did (another 10%) but will set the stage for every thing else this little sleeper bike has to offer.

Add more compression, larger bore, more stroke....

I may become a habit?

It did for me any way....

Which brings me to my next point:

ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1453572439.940460.jpg

Every thing that I have learned so far about a 230f is in this photo of my sleeper bike monster.

Not too many hints on why I call it a monster, no bling showing here, the bling is on the inside,

100% "0" hours at this point but not after today.

There are two visible hints showing here...

Count the teeth on the sprocket and multiply by 3. Then add 1 to that #

Then look up the # of cc's in a showroom stock engine and add the above # to the original factory # you just looked up. ( sorry, I realize that most of you know the stock cc's) some may not?

Is it really = a monster?..., stay tuned

It all started out with a 40mc/402 cam and a new set of rockers and a 67mm BBR piston kit well over 6-7 years ago.

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I just came in from trying out the inner baffle removed, without rejetting. Just to hear the sound. The goal is to make it sound better on youtube. I know, strange. I have been riding along side of my son, getting extra footage for him to use as "cut in" footage for another perspective. It is much cooler when he passes me at 30 mph doing a wheelie on a dirt trail than from his typical view from his helmet cam. I takes more time editing, but makes a better video. We have  just started this and he has not utilized it much, but he will eventually as he learns to better edit, quality and time spent. With the muffler stock, the net sound coming through youtube makes the 230 sound wimpy. I removed the baffle and did a test run. It sounded much better from 1/4 throttle on, but slow, putting  around or at idle, it still sounds almost the same, like a sewing machine. My other bikes, my kids bikes, CRF's,  they do the same with the exception of the "r's". Strange though, I am talking about the "net" sound after it is uploaded to you tube. I don't hear it the same in person. Wondering if anyone has an idea of what might give the "slow" a deeper sound?  

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Been thinking, I think I will still get the 250x once I find some extra cash. I think it will be well suited for CAW type riding. I do want to upgrade my present 230 for my main  bike. 

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Both bikes will d

 

Been thinking, I think I will still get the 250x once I find some extra cash. I think it will be well suited for CAW type riding. I do want to upgrade my present 230 for my main  bike. 

 

Both bikes will do well at CAW IF the suspension is properly setup.  We have been riding there for many years and both our CRF230s do exceptionally well there, even when the engines were bone-stock.

 

The last time I rode there with the "new" engine my bike went far faster than I needed to go.  There is a long open section there in the NE corner that has a long straight uphill with lots of erosion barriers.  I was hauling A$$ at the top of fourth gear up that section and it was hair-raisingly fun.  The top of fourth gear is in the 45-50 MPH range which is quite fast for that section.  My CRF230 is now more than fast enough to get me seriously hurt, even with the great suspension.  For fast long open work like that a CRF250X would be a better bike.

 

With the old engine I would be lucky to see the top of third gear through that section which is about 35-40 MPH.  Believe me that extra 10 MPH I get from the "new" engine makes a HUGE difference.  Now that I have Frank's EO Outlaw exhaust system it just makes it worse because the engine has more power everywhere and way more mid-to-top power.  It's a lot of power for that tiny chassis and my 150 pounds.

Edited by VortecCPI

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Both bikes will d

 

 

Both bikes will do well at CAW IF the suspension is properly setup.  We have been riding there for many years and both our CRF230s do exceptionally well there, even when the engines were bone-stock.

 

The last time I rode there with the "new" engine my bike went far faster than I needed to go.  There is a long open section there in the NE corner that has a long straight uphill with lots of erosion barriers.  I was hauling A$$ at the top of fourth gear up that section and it was hair-raisingly fun.  The top of fourth gear is in the 45-50 MPH range which is quite fast for that section.  My CRF230 is now more than fast enough to get me seriously hurt, even with the great suspension.  For fast long open work like that a CRF250X would be a better bike.

 

With the old engine I would be lucky to see the top of third gear through that section which is about 35-40 MPH.  Believe me that extra 10 MPH I get from the "new" engine makes a HUGE difference.  Now that I have Frank's EO Outlaw exhaust system it just makes it worse because the engine has more power everywhere and way more mid-to-top power.  It's a lot of power for that tiny chassis and my 150 pounds.

Wew, that's fast, too fast. I will tag along behind... someone has to be able to drive to the hospital, Just call me the designated driver. I'll get a siren

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Vortec, Is this the bike that recently came apart?

 Or am I confusing you with another poster? LOL, I have read so much on here, I can't keep it from running together. My wife complained this weekend saying all I have one for 2 days was be on the computer. Been interesting though

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