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I recently desmogged my 500.  The bike had been sitting for a few weeks before I did it.  Fired the bike up after removing all the parts and the bike now has a pretty wicked bog in it.  Any fast throttle openings and the bike just falls on its face.  I had planned on reinstalling all the emissions equipment this weekend to see if it fixed my issue but I apparently lost the little brass fitting that screws into the head.  Can anyone let me borrow theirs for a few days to see if it fixes my issue?  If it doesn't ill send it back and I'm taking it into the dealer.  PM me if I can borrow your fitting, thanks!

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When you removed the brass fitting and plugged, did you seal the hole? I used a small copper washer and a screw that held the canister to the bottom of the throttle body. Maybe a small vac leak? Mine didn't change at all, except getting rid of the decel pop. Now I have the EU map, and a pipe. It's a totally different bike. I have seen some threads of adjusting the TPS but I didnt adjust because I have a new map.

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When you removed the brass fitting and plugged, did you seal the hole? I used a small copper washer and a screw that held the canister to the bottom of the throttle body. Maybe a small vac leak? Mine didn't change at all, except getting rid of the decel pop. Now I have the EU map, and a pipe. It's a totally different bike. I have seen some threads of adjusting the TPS but I didnt adjust because I have a new map.

 

I pulled the canister and the solenoid from the bike completely so all that was left essentially was the vent hose to the gas cap, which I now have running straight to the ground. Someone mentioned something about the little plug in the end of the vent line near the bottom of the engine.  I tried it with that in and out, same deal.  I tried it with the vent line completely removed from the cap, same deal.

 

EDIT. I am also running the euro map, which I had with like 7 hours on the bike.  Before desmogging, the bike never ran anything but perfect.

Edited by PTECH

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Desmog alone won't make a big difference in how it runs. If you've got a big bog now then something else is going on. If it idles ok then I would doubt a vacuum leak, but if it doesn't idle good then definitely check for vacuum leak. Off the top of my head, try changing the fuel filter in the quick disconnect fitting, and if that doesn't do it then check the fuel pressure. If it's under warranty then ask the dealer to check it out.

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I pulled the canister and the solenoid from the bike completely so all that was left essentially was the vent hose to the gas cap, which I now have running straight to the ground. Someone mentioned something about the little plug in the end of the vent line near the bottom of the engine.  I tried it with that in and out, same deal.  I tried it with the vent line completely removed from the cap, same deal.

 

EDIT. I am also running the euro map, which I had with like 7 hours on the bike.  Before desmogging, the bike never ran anything but perfect.

 

Yea that little valve on the end that you route to the gas cap is actually a check valve, I removed mine so it will let the tank breathe. Did the idle change at all for you? It seems really weird... I would check for vac leak. The only place that would effect it is at that little nipple. Maybe someone else can chime in on TPS adjustment maybe....

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Desmog alone won't make a big difference in how it runs. If you've got a big bog now then something else is going on. If it idles ok then I would doubt a vacuum leak, but if it doesn't idle good then definitely check for vacuum leak. Off the top of my head, try changing the fuel filter in the quick disconnect fitting, and if that doesn't do it then check the fuel pressure. If it's under warranty then ask the dealer to check it out.

 

Idle is fine. Bike starts easy as ever. Just falls flat on its face when you blip the throttle.  I didn't find out the bike was running like crap until I hauled it 50 miles and went to do some riding.  I started it up and let it idle while I was putting my gear on.  Took off and hit a rocky dry creek bed, tried to pop the front end up to clear some big rocks and the bike fell flat on its face. So I stuck the front wheel head first into a rock and fell over in a big old rock patch and bent the crap out of one of my radiators. I rode the whole day like that, just had to be a bit slower opening the throttle.  I feel like all the power is still there. After all this happened I did change the inline fuel filter, no change. I also sprayed around the intake and throttle body area with brake clean, didn't find anything. I pretty much made up my mind I'm taking it to the dealer, I barely have the spare time to ride the bike let alone rip it apart and tinker with it.  The riding time I'm missing out on with the bike sitting in my garage not running right is worth more to me than the couple hundred bucks (barring its anything major) I'll probably be out to have them correct the issue.  The dealer is booked out until next Tuesday.  I'll report back with their findings.

Edited by PTECH

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Idle is fine. Bike starts easy as ever. Just falls flat on its face when you blip the throttle.  I didn't find out the bike was running like crap until I hauled it 50 miles and went to do some riding.  I started it up and let it idle while I was putting my gear on.  Took off and hit a rocky dry creek bed, tried to pop the front end up to clear some big rocks and the bike fell flat on its face. So I stuck the front wheel head first into a rock and fell over in a big old rock patch and bent the crap out of one of my radiators. I rode the whole day like that, just had to be a bit slower opening the throttle.  I feel like all the power is still there. After all this happened I did change the inline fuel filter, no change. I also sprayed around the intake and throttle body area with brake clean, didn't find anything. I pretty much made up my mind I'm taking it to the dealer, I barely have the spare time to ride the bike let alone rip it apart and tinker with it.  The riding time I'm missing out on with the bike sitting in my garage not running right is worth more to me than the couple hundred bucks (barring its anything major) I'll probably be out to have them correct the issue.  The dealer is booked out until next Tuesday.  I'll report back with their findings.

There was one guy who had a similar running issue, and they had to reflash his ecu, as it crapped out for some reason.  But I agree, probably better to shop it, cause they have the tools to test stuff and repair.

Edited by Spud786

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Not sure where you're at in AZ, but I'm in the Tucson area and have all the emission crap if you need to borrow something. With that said, agree with others and don't think reinstalling is going to help based on your symptoms. In four years never heard of a desmog on these bikes causing anything but idle issues and those are re-corrected with the knob.

Here's what I'd check in order if you want to check before going to the dealer. Some sound simple and stupid, but I've found some pretty simple and stupid things keep my bikes from running right.

1. Is the tank QD connected properly? Disconnect it, and reconnect it and listen for the click and watch the metal lock move and lock in place. Swivel it back and forth a little to make sure it swivels without leaking or coming apart. After connected pressurize it and then disconnect it again and push the engine side QD fitting to see if fuel is on that side of the QD. If so, reconnect it, checking that it's right. Try it.

2. Is the fuel fresh? You mentioned the bike had been sitting. Was it sitting with old fuel for weeks and is the fuel in there now still the fuel from weeks ago? If so, completely drain the tank, idle/run the bike until the lines deplete themselves of fuel, and then put new fuel in. try it.

3. Have you checked the inline fuel filter. Being the bike is new it may have picked something up from the tank or lines and is allowing enough fuel to pass for idle, but not enough for WOT. Check it out and watch for any debris to fall out. Also, with old fuel it might have clogged a little. Check it good. Replace it if needed. Try it.

4. Check your air cleaner and ensure its clean (yes, silly I know) and remove it to see if anything is blocking the TB. Extremely remote possibility, but worth checking.

5. Check your battery connections at the battery. Again, remote possibility, but a loose cable will cause the bike to fall on itself when asking for WOT.

Bottom line, I don't think desmog is your issue... think it's just coincidence, but with that said, doesn't hurt to backtrack like you're doing with the reinstall.

Let me know if you need any smog parts as I can mail them out and you could have them in a day.

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Not sure where you're at in AZ, but I'm in the Tucson area and have all the emission crap if you need to borrow something. With that said, agree with others and don't think reinstalling is going to help based on your symptoms. In four years never heard of a desmog on these bikes causing anything but idle issues and those are re-corrected with the knob.

Here's what I'd check in order if you want to check before going to the dealer. Some sound simple and stupid, but I've found some pretty simple and stupid things keep my bikes from running right.

1. Is the tank QD connected properly? Disconnect it, and reconnect it and listen for the click and watch the metal lock move and lock in place. Swivel it back and forth a little to make sure it swivels without leaking or coming apart. After connected pressurize it and then disconnect it again and push the engine side QD fitting to see if fuel is on that side of the QD. If so, reconnect it, checking that it's right. Try it.

2. Is the fuel fresh? You mentioned the bike had been sitting. Was it sitting with old fuel for weeks and is the fuel in there now still the fuel from weeks ago? If so, completely drain the tank, idle/run the bike until the lines deplete themselves of fuel, and then put new fuel in. try it.

3. Have you checked the inline fuel filter. Being the bike is new it may have picked something up from the tank or lines and is allowing enough fuel to pass for idle, but not enough for WOT. Check it out and watch for any debris to fall out. Also, with old fuel it might have clogged a little. Check it good. Replace it if needed. Try it.

4. Check your air cleaner and ensure its clean (yes, silly I know) and remove it to see if anything is blocking the TB. Extremely remote possibility, but worth checking.

5. Check your battery connections at the battery. Again, remote possibility, but a loose cable will cause the bike to fall on itself when asking for WOT.

Bottom line, I don't think desmog is your issue... think it's just coincidence, but with that said, doesn't hurt to backtrack like you're doing with the reinstall.

Let me know if you need any smog parts as I can mail them out and you could have them in a day.

 

Yeah I've pretty much given up on the idea of reinstalling the emissions components.  Just gonna bite the bullet and take it in.  Thanks for the suggestions, a lot of good stuff in there.

 

1.  Yeah the tank has been off about 3 times now.  I'm confident of the metal clip engaging fully but I have thought maybe it might be causing a fuel flow restriction even if its fully connected.  Would be nice to have the tools to check fuel pressure at the injector...

 

2. Fuel was half old, probably about 2-3 weeks old maybe month max.  On the way to my riding spot after desmogging I filled up (which was a little over a gallon) of 95 octane out of the pump at a gas station that sells 95 and 100 octane.  I've ran this gas before without issues.  Not to say that it couldn't be a bad batch.  I haven't dumped the fuel yet because I don't have anything to catch it in mainly.  I have a week before I take it to the dealer, I may do this if I have the time.

 

3.  After the bike starting running like crap my first thought was that in line filter.  I have 32 hours on the bike and never changed it. I looked in the manual and saw that it should be replaced every 15 hours so I replaced it.  Made no difference.

 

4. Air cleaner was kind of dirty initially.  When I took the bike back apart after having these issues I did clean the filter and reinstall a fresh filter. No difference.  I didn't check to see if anything was in the air boot behind the filter.  That's a good idea.

 

5.  I actually did find a loose battery cable.  The nut securing the positive cable was just loose enough that I could swivel the cable around on the post. I corrected that thinking for sure that was my issue but alas it didn't do anything.  Im pretty sure that would have left me stranded at some point though!

 

Seeing as I have some time before they can look at my bike I think I'll dump the fuel, disconnect the battery overnight and see if that fixes anything.  If not, its off to the dealer as planned   :lame:

Edited by PTECH

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Yeah I've pretty much given up on the idea of reinstalling the emissions components. Just gonna bite the bullet and take it in. Thanks for the suggestions, a lot of good stuff in there.

1. Yeah the tank has been off about 3 times now. I'm confident of the metal clip engaging fully but I have thought maybe it might be causing a fuel flow restriction even if its fully connected. Would be nice to have the tools to check fuel pressure at the injector...

2. Fuel was half old, probably about 2-3 weeks old maybe month max. On the way to my riding spot after desmogging I filled up (which was a little over a gallon) of 95 octane out of the pump at a gas station that sells 95 and 100 octane. I've ran this gas before without issues. Not to say that it couldn't be a bad batch. I haven't dumped the fuel yet because I don't have anything to catch it in mainly. I have a week before I take it to the dealer, I may do this if I have the time.

3. After the bike starting running like crap my first thought was that in line filter. I have 32 hours on the bike and never changed it. I looked in the manual and saw that it should be replaced every 15 hours so I replaced it. Made no difference.

4. Air cleaner was kind of dirty initially. When I took the bike back apart after having these issues I did clean the filter and reinstall a fresh filter. No difference. I didn't check to see if anything was in the air boot behind the filter. That's a good idea.

5. I actually did find a loose battery cable. The nut securing the positive cable was just loose enough that I could swivel the cable around on the post. I corrected that thinking for sure that was my issue but alas it didn't do anything. Im pretty sure that would have left me stranded at some point though!

Seeing as I have some time before they can look at my bike I think I'll dump the fuel, disconnect the battery overnight and see if that fixes anything. If not, its off to the dealer as planned :lame:

A couple thoughts and I'm sure someone might correct me but-

1. Why run any octane fuel higher than 91? Mine runs absolutely perfect at 91 and maybe you did get some bad fuel. A little different but one time I went round and round on a blower, even the mechanics at my work spent forever trying figure it out. It eventually turned out to be fuel which supposedly was brand new straight from the gas station. New gas and it was perfect. I would absolutely dump the fuel first thing and replace it with fresh 91.

2. One time i was at my Ktm dealer looking to buy replacement inline fuel filters to carry with me on long rides, just in case. They were out. The service guy said if it does clog in an emergency, just pull it completely out and drive back with no fuel filter. Again he said in an emergency. Haven't tried it, not convinced the quick connect will seal properly. But worth a try.

3. I would be a little suspicious of the loose battery cable you spoke of. I've seen some pretty electrical issues over the years that start with loose connections and bad grounds. Nothing on ktm's but on other bikes and cars. Unfortunately not much you can do but check for tightness.

I wouldn't expect the desmog to be the issue. I took everything off mine and it runs way better than with it. I have 23 hours since my desmog.

Edited by Deepseadan

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A couple thoughts and I'm sure someone might correct me but-

1. Why run any octane fuel higher than 91? Mine runs absolutely perfect at 91 and maybe you did get some bad fuel. A little different but one time I went round and round on a blower, even the mechanics at my work spent forever trying figure it out. It eventually turned out to be fuel which supposedly was brand new straight from the gas station. New gas and it was perfect. I would absolutely dump the fuel first thing and replace it with fresh 91.

2. One time i was at my Ktm dealer looking to buy replacement inline fuel filters to carry with me on long rides, just in case. They were out. The service guy said if it does clog in an emergency, just pull it completely out and drive back with no fuel filter. Again he said in an emergency. Haven't tried it, not convinced the quick connect will seal properly. But worth a try.

3. I would be a little suspicious of the loose battery cable you spoke of. I've seen some pretty electrical issues over the years that start with loose connections and bad grounds. Nothing on ktm's but on other bikes and cars. Unfortunately not much you can do but check for tightness.

I wouldn't expect the desmog to be the issue. I took everything off mine and it runs way better than with it. I have 23 hours since my desmog.

 

1.  You're probably right.  I don't think there is a point to running higher than 91.  The gas station that sells the high ocatane stuff is on my way to the riding spot so I figure why not put some "good stuff" in it.  Its just something I do to make myself feel like I'm treating the bike right.  Kinda like changing the oil every 7 hours.

 

2. I didn't try running it without the inline filter installed but the one in the bike right now is brand new and the one that came out looked brand new as well.

 

3.  Believe me when I found that cable was the slightest bit loose I was super happy, thinking I found the issue.  Unfortunately it still has the bog after securing the positive cable and checking the tightness of the ground cable, both at the battery and at the chassis.  I'm running a shorai in the bike right now, I may revert back to the factory battery... When I installed the shorai my factory battery was installed backwards, the positive and the negative cables crossed over each other (if that makes any sense)  When I was installing the new shorai I mimicked the installation position of the original battery and I ended up touching the negative cable to the positive terminal for a split second, making a direct short circuit and releasing a bunch of smoke out of the battery!! Looking at the installation position I thought "boy is that a stupid way to route those cables", turns out I look in the owners manual and see whoever pdi'ed my bike put the battery in backwards. I was freaked but I figured maybe as well at least try it rather than just throwing a $150 battery in the trash.  I've been running that battery for about 15 hours without issue but I've always wondered if all that smoke I let out of it would come back to haunt me someday.  I'm gonna put my old factory battery on the charger tonight and try reinstalling that when I dump the gas.

Edited by PTECH

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1. You're probably right. I don't think there is a point to running higher than 91. The gas station that sells the high ocatane stuff is on my way to the riding spot so I figure why not put some "good stuff" in it. Its just something I do to make myself feel like I'm treating the bike right. Kinda like changing the oil every 7 hours.

2. I didn't try running it without the inline filter installed but the one in the bike right now is brand new and the one that came out looked brand new as well.

3. Believe me when I found that cable was the slightest bit loose I was super happy, thinking I found the issue. Unfortunately it still has the bog after securing the positive cable and checking the tightness of the ground cable, both at the battery and at the chassis. I'm running a shorai in the bike right now, I may revert back to the factory battery... When I installed the shorai my factory battery was installed backwards, the positive and the negative cables crossed over each other (if that makes any sense) When I was installing the new shorai I mimicked the installation position of the original battery and I ended up touching the negative cable to the positive terminal for a split second, making a direct short circuit and releasing a bunch of smoke out of the battery!! Looking at the installation position I thought "boy is that a stupid way to route those cables", turns out I look in the owners manual and see whoever pdi'ed my bike put the battery in backwards. I was freaked but I figured maybe as well at least try it rather than just throwing a $150 battery in the trash. I've been running that battery for about 15 hours without issue but I've always wondered if all that smoke I let out of it would come back to haunt me someday. I'm gonna put my old factory battery on the charger tonight and try reinstalling that when I dump the gas.

Did I read correctly that one of the cables to the battery was connected when you touched the cables together causing the smoke? Dead short while partly connected? If so, knowing that you touched the positive and negative cables together, I would bet money that some sensor or even the ecu has been damaged. You're probably lucky it started at all. Edited by Deepseadan

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T

 

Did I read correctly that one of the cables to the battery was connected when you touched the cables together causing the smoke? Dead short while partly connected? If so, knowing that you touched the positive and negative cables together, I would bet money that some sensor or even the ecu has been damaged. You're probably lucky it started at all.

 

The red positive cable to battery wasn't connected yet.  Basically what happened was the ground cable that runs from the negative terminal to the chassis swung out from where I had it tucked and bridged the two terminals for a split second, which is easier than you think to do when the battery is installed backwards. So the battery itself was shorted out for a split second but nothing was even connected to the bike yet at that point.  I put that battery in during an oil change at 17ish hours, the bike now has 33 so it ran for about 15 hours on the shorai without issues.  I may hook it up to the shorai charger tonight and see if it errors out.

Edited by PTECH

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T

The red positive cable to battery wasn't connected yet. Basically what happened was the ground cable that runs from the negative terminal to the chassis swung out from where I had it tucked and bridged the two terminals for a split second, which is easier than you think to do when the battery is installed backwards. So the battery itself was shorted out for a split second but nothing was even connected to the bike yet at that point. I put that battery in during an oil change at 17ish hours, the bike now has 33 so it ran for about 15 hours on the shorai without issues. I may hook it up to the shorai charger tonight and see if it errors out.

Oh I misunderstood. Was the ground unhooked from the chassis? I guess if your bike ran good after that, you could probably rule that incident out. Anyways maybe try your old battery, it's a pretty simple item to check off the list.

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Oh I misunderstood. Was the ground unhooked from the chassis? I guess if your bike ran good after that, you could probably rule that incident out. Anyways maybe try your old battery, it's a pretty simple item to check off the list.

 

Yeah I don't remember exactly why I did it but I pulled the original battery out with the ground cable attached.  So I attached it to the new battery before going in.  I remember thinking "Wow that was really stupid of me" right after it happened.

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Fuel pump is bad. My buddy's 16 500 had a bad fuel pump. Take the gas cap off and fire it up. Look inside and see if gas is squirting around. Sounds dumb I know but it happens. Also if you know anyone with same bike switch thanks completely. I bet that the problem. The dealer can test them also.

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Fuel pump is bad. My buddy's 16 500 had a bad fuel pump. Take the gas cap off and fire it up. Look inside and see if gas is squirting around. Sounds dumb I know but it happens. Also if you know anyone with same bike switch thanks completely. I bet that the problem. The dealer can test them also.

 

Hmm, interesting! When I dump the fuel I'll only put a little bit of fresh stuff back in and see what I can see.  Thanks for chiming in!

 

EDIT: OUCH! Just priced out a fuel pump.  $290.  This is when you regret buying your first fuel injected dirt bike lol.

Edited by PTECH

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Hmm, interesting! When I dump the fuel I'll only put a little bit of fresh stuff back in and see what I can see. Thanks for chiming in!

EDIT: OUCH! Just priced out a fuel pump. $290. This is when you regret buying your first fuel injected dirt bike lol.

lol. Yep. I'm buddy's with the dealer and they told me I could have it if the warranty department didn't want it back. I haven't checked in with them for awhile but I'm going there today to see. Would love to fix it and have a extra. I could put in each tank. Stock and desert tank. I hate swapping all the time.

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Fuel pump is bad. My buddy's 16 500 had a bad fuel pump. Take the gas cap off and fire it up. Look inside and see if gas is squirting around. Sounds dumb I know but it happens. Also if you know anyone with same bike switch thanks completely. I bet that the problem. The dealer can test them also.

That's good idea, probably a good idea also just to fire up the bike and look in there and see what is normal, so you know what abnormal is.

Edited by Spud786

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It squirts all over if there's a problem. It's pressurized in the line. So if its squirting its not normal. Only movement should really be from vibration.

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