ProCircuit KTM Linkage System Vs. Hard Parts Catalog Linkage

[Mxken]

Anyone know if the Pro-Circuit linkage system and the one in the KTM hard parts catalog are the same of different?

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

Anyone know if the Pro-Circuit linkage system and the one in the KTM hard parts catalog are the same of different?

Ktm has an aftermarket linkage with different geometry?Isnt that kind of like saying,thanks for dropping 10grand on a new ktm but we really didn't put the best equipment we had available on there for ya but.....for another $400 we would be glad to send you the one that performs best,lol!!

[Veteran]

Suppose it depends why you need different linkage. A really fast pro will use a different linkage to a slower rider. Track also makes a difference. There is no better linkage generally. There's only the right one for required performance.

[Byron909]

Mxken you are talking about linkage for two diffrrent frames.

The ktm linkage is for the 15 down bikes, pc linkage is for 15.5 up.

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

Mxken you are talking about linkage for two diffrrent frames.

The ktm linkage is for the 15 down bikes, pc linkage is for 15.5 up.

Now that makes a little more sense to me.I have the pro circuit linkage for my '16 350 xcf but my suspension tuner said he did not want it on the bike with his set up for some reason......I was so excited about it too from all the talk about how much it improves handling etc.Oh well it's already the best handling bike I have by a long shot.

[Byron909]

Same here. I Have the pc setup as well, but my suspension guy at the time hadnt seen or tested with it, so they recommended not using it for now. I get what the pc stuff is trying to do, may eventually give it a go soon. Just will need more spring as well.

If you have a 11-14, the pc linkage arm works great.

[yzrider53]

Nothing wrong with the PC linkage with whatever valving you have for the stock linkage. It's within a few clicks...A little more high speed for me was all I really had to do. My rebound is still the same.

 

Edit. You gotta go up at least 2 spring rates minimum. I went from a 48nm to a 51-53nm depending on conditions..IMO

Edited May 8, 2016 by yzrider53

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

Nothing wrong with the PC linkage with whatever valving you have for the stock linkage. It's within a few clicks...A little more high speed for me was all I really had to do. My rebound is still the same.

 

Edit. You gotta go up at least 2 spring rates minimum. I went from a 48nm to a 51-53nm depending on conditions..IMO

Yeah I was gonna swap it out when I do my next shock service along with a more "true to weight" spring rate and compare the two.So yours is on a '16 xcf/sxf?Can you give us a little more detailed feedback than "handles better" and "more natural feeling shock actio"?Thats all I got out of the guys at pro circuit,and not necessarily from someone who actually rode it like you have.

[yzrider53]

Yeah I was gonna swap it out when I do my next shock service along with a more "true to weight" spring rate and compare the two.So yours is on a '16 xcf/sxf?Can you give us a little more detailed feedback than "handles better" and "more natural feeling shock actio"?Thats all I got out of the guys at pro circuit,and not necessarily from someone who actually rode it like you have. on the 16 450 fact edition

I have the 16 450 factory edition (also had the 15fe) I'm using it for mx, 185 with gear. The main "like" is that I don't get the mystery kick in accel/decel chop anymore. The only way I found to eliminate that with the stock linkage was to go softer on the spring which ruined the balance and changed the way the bike jumped, for the worse, the rear didn't have the pop to match the front, imo.

 

It now seems more like my 13 and 14 sxf, which had the shock shortened 1-3mm depending on conditions to eliminate the "wallow" the old pre-15's had.

I'm happy with the pc and since you already have it, I'd use it...You just gotta figure out what spring rate to get. I use the race tech springs, they're the most accurate that I've found. I have a really nice spring tester and it's amazing that many of the places we all buy springs from sell us springs that are off, way off in some instances.

 

So, between the the 2 springs I'm using with the PC, I'm 35-37mm static at 102 (pc recommends 100-102 because it lowers the rear 3mm on the sag line) 

 

Sorry about the long reply to your question and all of this is just my opinion and not to be taken as fact ?

[Genesis Sports Nutrition]

I have the 16 450 factory edition (also had the 15fe) I'm using it for mx, 185 with gear. The main "like" is that I don't get the mystery kick in accel/decel chop anymore. The only way I found to eliminate that with the stock linkage was to go softer on the spring which ruined the balance and changed the way the bike jumped, for the worse, the rear didn't have the pop to match the front, imo.

 

It now seems more like my 13 and 14 sxf, which had the shock shortened 1-3mm depending on conditions to eliminate the "wallow" the old pre-15's had.

I'm happy with the pc and since you already have it, I'd use it...You just gotta figure out what spring rate to get. I use the race tech springs, they're the most accurate that I've found. I have a really nice spring tester and it's amazing that many of the places we all buy springs from sell us springs that are off, way off in some instances.

 

So, between the the 2 springs I'm using with the PC, I'm 35-37mm static at 102 (pc recommends 100-102 because it lowers the rear 3mm on the sag line) 

 

Sorry about the long reply to your question and all of this is just my opinion and not to be taken as fact ?

That's good info.I'm really trying to focus on set up right now,there's just so much to consider all while not trying to upset the basic balance and geometry.Ever since I got my suspension back for my 250xc from protune,I wonder how much better can these bikes be.That bike went from very finicky and harsh to amazing.it now corners like a dream and is nice and plush,I bolted it on and sag was perfect.I used to fight it all the time and now it just does what it's supposed to effortlessly,can't believe the difference.....I want more,lol.

[kylant]

I have the 16 450 factory edition (also had the 15fe) I'm using it for mx, 185 with gear. The main "like" is that I don't get the mystery kick in accel/decel chop anymore. The only way I found to eliminate that with the stock linkage was to go softer on the spring which ruined the balance and changed the way the bike jumped, for the worse, the rear didn't have the pop to match the front, imo.

 

It now seems more like my 13 and 14 sxf, which had the shock shortened 1-3mm depending on conditions to eliminate the "wallow" the old pre-15's had.

I'm happy with the pc and since you already have it, I'd use it...You just gotta figure out what spring rate to get. I use the race tech springs, they're the most accurate that I've found. I have a really nice spring tester and it's amazing that many of the places we all buy springs from sell us springs that are off, way off in some instances.

 

So, between the the 2 springs I'm using with the PC, I'm 35-37mm static at 102 (pc recommends 100-102 because it lowers the rear 3mm on the sag line) 

 

Sorry about the long reply to your question and all of this is just my opinion and not to be taken as fact ?

 

out of curiosity what spring rate are you using with the link system?

you say race tech springs are pretty accurate. is that the case with what you are running and what their spring calculator told you to run? 

thanks

[yzrider53]

out of curiosity what spring rate are you using with the link system?

you say race tech springs are pretty accurate. is that the case with what you are running and what their spring calculator told you to run? 

thanks

I have the RT 5.2kg and 5.4kg (51nm and 53nm) with the pc linkage. I think that the rt spring calc recommends 4.9k/48nm for the stock linkage for me.

When I got the pc linkage, they recommended the 5.2 based on me preferring the 4.9 (aside from the harshness) on the stock linkage. For my liking, the 5.2 is borderline soft.

 

Regarding spring accuracy, I've only sent one spring back to RT out of 10 or so shock springs that I've got from them. The WP OEM springs are totally hit or miss, the ones that come delivered on the bike are ok, but the oem optionals are bad/off in my experience, the 2 45nm's and a 51nm I bought were off, too soft on my tester. One of the 45's tested at 42nm, not good. And a 54nm I got from wp 2 years ago for my trax shock tested out at 51nm, every wp spring I have ever bought, has been off. It's almost as if the race teams went through and hand picked all of the good springs???

 

Once again, just my opinion.

[yzrider53]

That's good info.I'm really trying to focus on set up right now,there's just so much to consider all while not trying to upset the basic balance and geometry.Ever since I got my suspension back for my 250xc from protune,I wonder how much better can these bikes be.That bike went from very finicky and harsh to amazing.it now corners like a dream and is nice and plush,I bolted it on and sag was perfect.I used to fight it all the time and now it just does what it's supposed to effortlessly,can't believe the difference.....I want more,lol.

It's a never ending pursuit of perfection ?

Edited May 9, 2016 by yzrider53

[Byron909]

Thanks for the info yz. Im trying to figure a spring rate for me, it seems one thing the pc linkage setup does do is give you a more true to life spring rate.

Im 6'5", 225, intermediate mx. My 13.5 450 has a 5.9 rear and its setup perfect. This 16 450, according to the race tech calculAtor is saying im on the 5.5 range.

so taking into account what pc recommends, that would likely put my rate around a 5.9, like my older bike, which is around most everything i ride.

Also agree, i learned years ago the aftermarket wp springs are hit and miss.

Thanks for the input.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Byron909

[Mxken]

Thanks for all the input.  I'm going to wait a few more hours before I start tinkering with the suspension.  A few tuners recommended NOT going with the PC linkage as it may throw off the shock entirely, but some people swear by it.  I know PR2 suspension here in PA has a linkage that does the same thing.  I'll sit on the fence for a little while and see what kinda data becomes available.

[Byron909]

I thdon't nk the suspension guys that say dont use, simply havent tried themselves.

I have yet to hear anything bad about it,

[kylant]

I am 5’11 and 215# without gear.  for my ability and types of riding I do, the RT spring calculator says I need a 5.4 spring.

I talked to PC and they said I would need 1-2 spring rates higher for their linkage system.

 

so a 5.6 or 5.8

Does that sound correct?

 

also, what length for the new spring? for 2016 aren’t they a different length now?

 

thanks

[Scoott]

 I have a 2016 ktm 450 sxf.  I am 6'3" and 230 ish pounds.

 

  I didn't like the stock shock/fork on hard, quick movements. So I had pro tune do the shock and fork. Corey recommended a 5.1 but I went with a 5.6.

 

 Still a little harsh feeling with a 5.6, borderline too stiff, so I picked up a PC link and tried it. Brought free sag/laden sag to 38mm/112mm sag.

 

 I liked the feel better with the initial movement plusher.

 

 Still not satisfied, I tried a new Ohlins shock. Was disappointed in that it felt no better than the protune shock. Returned for a revalve and Voila!!  MUCH better, actually plush initially, have added a HS click, 9 clicks out on LS, Rebound around 14 clicks.

 

  I too like the idea of a more leveraged spring. The rate is supposed to be softer initially, with the same bottoming resistance.  So far, so good.

[yzrider53]

I am 5’11 and 215# without gear.  for my ability and types of riding I do, the RT spring calculator says I need a 5.4 spring.

I talked to PC and they said I would need 1-2 spring rates higher for their linkage system.

 

so a 5.6 or 5.8

Does that sound correct?

 

also, what length for the new spring? for 2016 aren’t they a different length now?

 

thanks

The new chassis shock spring is 247-255mm, you might be able to get away with a slightly longer. If you have a 5.8kg sitting around, I'd try that first???

 

On the pre 15 linkage (13-14) a 5.8 was perfect for my weight and now on the new chassis with the pc I'm somewhere between the 5.2 and 5.4. Did you have a 13-14???

If so, what spring did you run???

 

Edit, yes the new shock has a shorter spring...Old springs were 260ish

Edited May 10, 2016 by yzrider53

[kylant]

thanks for the spring length clarification. I thought they were shorter. looks like they are 247mm this year.

 

i talked to both pro circuit and race tech yesterday.

 

pro circuit said to go up 1 or 2 spring rates when using their linkage system

 

race tech calculator put my suggested spring at 5.3 or 5.4 depending on use (desert vs moto)

Leo at race tech suggested a 5.6 spring, thought 5.8 would be overkill.

 

I bought the 5.6 and have the linkage on the way as well. 

 

i did have my shock done by cory at pro tune. i have the stock 4.8 spring in there now, did have to add some preload to the spring to get my sags close. currently i have about 38mm static and 110 race all geared up. 

i think a 5.1 spring with the stock linkage would probably be better for me.