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Will a 230 motor fit in a 200r frame?

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I could have fit it in the airbox, but I didn't want to.  I have visions of filter oil and crud covering the battery.  I also really wanted to keep the battery low and forward, a side benifit is very short cables.  AND the freeride has the battery in a similar location, so it must be good!

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Well Chad, you will certainly see your fair share of crud there, that's for sure.

Without not knowing how KTM fitted their battery box on the Freeride, my educated guess is there must have been a fair amount of protection. 

One thing I did want to point out is that lithium 7 battery that I got for mine, was as small as the original 5 that came with the bike, fortunately

my battery manufacturer provided me with a ton of padding. I switched the modified 7 size battery box back to the original 5 battery box and still

had to add padding due to the smaller size to fit in the box. 

 

Can you emulate the Freeride battery box, again, I am speculating that KTM provided a fair amount of protection ??? Where I am going with the

padding is the insulated protection it adds, i.e. far less vibration. I can see the benefits of the lower center of gravity, makes perfect sense. But at

the end of the day, you don't have a back up kick starter like on the Yamaha's, still scratching my head as to why Honda did not provide one, so 

you can't afford a battery failure.

 

Michael 

 

 

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Interesting concept. Did away with any cables and used flat strap. Looks good Chad! Only thing I might suggest is get some of that liquid rubber dip and coat them all but the ends where the connections are made. Prevent accidental shorting out, in the event somehow something like a wrench or something fell across them

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I will be insulating the positive leads for sure. I plan on using heat shrink on the straps and then some sort of cap over the bolted connections. by doing it this way I eliminated about 3 feet of #6 copper.

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Aluminum is not an ideal conductor. I would check to see if the straps get hot while cranking, they are probably OK?  Also monitor the bolts for looseness due to vibration since the battery is rigid mounted. 

On my light bike I was looking for a way to lose the starter solenoid, wiring and switch. Those items can weigh 1/4 to 1/3 lb. I think some riding mowers or tractors use a simple push button switch that can handle the cranking amps. I am going to try mounting a similar way with short copper straps and the switch down by the starter. That eliminates not only the heavy cables but also the weight and failure points of the bar switch, wiring and solenoid. The lightest and most reliable parts are the ones you leave off the bike.

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3 hours ago, woodsryder said:

Aluminum is not an ideal conductor. I would check to see if the straps get hot while cranking, they are probably OK?  Also monitor the bolts for looseness due to vibration since the battery is rigid mounted. 

On my light bike I was looking for a way to lose the starter solenoid, wiring and switch. Those items can weigh 1/4 to 1/3 lb. I think some riding mowers or tractors use a simple push button switch that can handle the cranking amps. I am going to try mounting a similar way with short copper straps and the switch down by the starter. That eliminates not only the heavy cables but also the weight and failure points of the bar switch, wiring and solenoid. The lightest and most reliable parts are the ones you leave off the bike.

Neither is copper, but silver is expensive and flimsy.

Since almost the whole electrical distrubution grid uses aluminum I think I can trust it to start a little girls bike.  Consider that current only flows for short periods of time.  I let the starter run for about 20 seconds and there was no discernible increase in tempature using my fingers as a gauge. Corrosion is a concern, so I will need to keep an eye on that.

Of course failure is always an option, so time will tell.  I'm old enough to know that I don't know didly.

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Aluminum is a fine conductor, not as good as copper, but not that far behind. 

The Company I work for is in the metal finishing business, 85% of our tooling is aluminum,

10% copper, 5% titanium (which is a terrible conductor), but it has it's uses.  

 

When you check for spark and use your aluminum cylinder head to conduct electricity, it

sparks just fine. 

 

Michael 

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Straying off topic but aluminum only has 61% of the conductivity of copper,.. big difference between fine and optimum. I had a mobile home that used aluminum wiring and you could trace the wires by feeling for the warm areas on the wall. Heat is wasted energy due to resistance. The electrical panel on the pole outside would also steam when it rained.

Yeah, they sometimes use aluminum in new house construction for the same reason they use particle board,.. to make the cheapest possible product. Its also a trade off in the electrical supply grid where the copper cables weigh 70% more and cost many times more, and would need extra support poles. They trade (or pass on to us) a large loss of efficiency for massive cost savings. Ever notice how birds love to sit on power lines in the winter? Im guessing the wires are being heated from resistance of aluminum cable. The power company saves millions by using a cheaper material while you and I pay to warm birds feet. 

Like Chadzu said, no issues in this application, the straps are short and the load is momentary. One last check would be for voltage loss under load and as mentioned, periodic checks for corrosion.

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In Chad's application, it is "fine" for conductivity. The 6061 will virtually need no maintenance, where it's copper counterpart will. 

Exposed copper corrodes at alarming rate, ask the Folks that have to clean the statue of liberty, we have the same exact problem with our copper. 

I am not disagreeing with coppers conductivity, it is by far the best bang for the buck for conductivity, but most copper is not exposed to the elements.

In Chad's application, it will. In my Shop we have 4000 Amps of 480V, which are subbed down to 230V & 115V and we go through 120,000 Kwh of power a month.

That is typically enough to power over 600 homes on average, so we as a Company know what works and what doesn't.  

Michael 

 

 

 

 

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Yes AL is not as good a conductor as copper. A conductors ability to safely carry electricity is based on its cross sectional area and the resistance of the metal.  In general a switch to aluminum only requires one size larger wire.  However aluminum easily corrodes in contact with other metals and the corrosion has high resistance; that increases the resistance at connections, and heat,  so corrosion protection is needed. Antioxidants are available from building supply or electrical suppliers.

Wire size calculators based on voltage drop, amperage, and distance are available on line.

 

 

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50 miles of single track today. Bike has never started or run better. So far it's a win.

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It's not very often I ride wet trails. It gave me an opportunity to test out my mobil1 jug mud flap. Seems to work just fine. No issues with battery location.
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Running a PD97? You need a PWK. :lol:

Nice job on the installation.

How do you like the late XR250R shock?  Have you revalved it yet? The yellow spring is a lot stiffer than a XR200R spring.  I just did a revalve on mine for a ride on Wed.

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97 ha! I'm using a 28a. I will likely end up with a pwk eventually if I can get it to fit, space is pretty tight with the gas tank on mine. I had to heat the tank and make some clearance for the pd to fit. I think the 230 motor is slightly taller. I really like the shock, it is a definite step up from the 200 shock. I am using stock valving right now, I do think a gold valve and reshim will make it better yet.

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To rotate the PWK for servicing I need to put a tight bend in the throttle cable so it can pass out from under the tank, having the cable properly routed and loose helps. After placing the carb back to operating position I then pull the cable back into place from the front of the tank, and then to insure the cable is all back to normal I wack the throttle and listen for the return clunk.  So I imagine a taller 230 engine would be more difficult.

Can you provide more info about heating methods and reshaping the tank because I would like a little more clearance, and the right rear corner of the tank doesn't hold much usable gas.

My ride tomorrow will indicate how well my wild ass guess on revalving is working.  Hoping to have a plusher ride and the clickers more useful for tuning. 

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Chuck, I'm not familiar with the pwk carb. Does this can offer performance gains on the 200? Or is it something one would use on a built motor? 

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I used my hft heat gun to slowly warm up the plastic. Go slow so it heats evenly. When it gets soft you can move it pretty easy. Then hold it until it hardens or hit it with some water to cool it quickly.

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9 hours ago, Daniel627 said:

Chuck, I'm not familiar with the pwk carb. Does this can offer performance gains on the 200? Or is it something one would use on a built motor? 

It is larger than a stock 26mm carb but seems to be a better carb. The PD series carbs are good bu thye have a heritage from the late seventies, the PWK is a newer design and throttle response seems to be better.  But the common application are 2Ts so a lot of jetting changes needed to use a used carb. Also need to fab adapters. A lot of riders in the CRF230F forum uses the PWK as do Trials bike riders, and some Trials bike mfg who use them OEM on 250cc 2Ts.

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