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Will a 230 motor fit in a 200r frame?

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Two years ago I research doing an EFI system on my XR and/or my X and found a lot of projects on TT, AdvRider, etc of motorcycle conversions. At that time Ecotron and Microsquirt seemed to be the systems of choice. However Microsquirt had a much larger installed base, several user forums, and the previously mentioned project threads.  One problem was finding a throttle body of suitable size for the XR218; the Ecotron unit were designed for scooters and the injector location and cable routing were wrong for a motorcycle. IMO the MicrosquirtS software is much better than Ecotron, plus the experience database. The Microsquirt software is designed for DIY and is evolving; recently the temp range was expanded to accomodate air cooled engine, it has table switching to change performance, knock sensing, etc. 

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This Kayo system was designed for the new Zong 250 4 valve motor. Size and power wise it is a close match for a modified 230 motor. The cdi looks like and uses Honda plugs. It has an external pump that will work well for retrofit. The software suite looks like it was taken from micro squirt. It uses TPS, Air intake temp, and O2 feed back for control. The ECM controls the cdi, and the ecm gets its crank position signal from the pulse generator on the flywheel. The system really looks like it was designed around the Honda.

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It also has a stud mount head temp sensor that is only used for cold start enrichment

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Microsquirt supports mixture adjustments over a wide range of engine and ambient temperatures, plus cold start and warm up enrichment. And various methods of accelerator pump enrichment and hot start clearing for a flooded condition. All of these are very much like modern cars.  

Also table switching which allows operator selection of maps to change engine performance.
SW code and processing speed that can sample MAP pressure at its lowest point in each engine cycle on single cylinder engines, a process used by some OEM that allows singles to be programmed like multis. 

This has become a thread hijack so I'll stop. If an EFI thread starts I'll post up links to resources and motorcycle EFI projects.

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I have had terrible luck with tank graphics, but what the heck.
IMG_0886.JPG

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I put a 90/100 front tire on yesterday, holy crap it's huge! I have a date with a whole bunch of Idaho rocks in 30 days. I have it on good authority that these fatty tires work well. Clearance may be an issue though.

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I don't know how you would make a comparison unless the 230 had similar suspension mods. 

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Just curious because the 230 weighs 249 wet, same as a CRF250X, they also have similar rake values of 27.3 and 27.5 respectively. The 27.5 and greater rakes have for decades been typical for MX bikes while the late XRs have used less.
The late XR200R is 218-221lbs, depending on year, sans gas gas, and mine is 208. And the rake is 26 degrees.

Years ago we picked the late XR200R chassis because of our experiences with 84-85 XR200R/250Rs and later XRs. Recent ride comparisons between late XR200Rs, BBR, CRF250X, and Trials bikes have indicated that for our type of riding those large rake values make the bike less responsive to steering input. In  comparing my XR and X   I characterize the handling at speed as a need to respond one bike length sooner with the X to dodge trail debris.   And those long rake angles are more tiring to ride on gnarly ST, the Trials bikes are the easiest but they have other issues when used for trail riding. 

And lastly my friend and I are considering building XR230Fs but we are concerned about the bottom end torque delivery of a stock 230 engine compared to our 218s. I suspect a better comparison might be between a modded 230 to the 218 because the 218s have 11:1 CR plus more aggressive cams.  I have some dyno charts but results from several dynos are notoriously difficult to compare. Gear ratio differences also affect torque to the rear wheel and the 230s have a lower primary ratio (3.333 for XR vs 3.091 for 230).    That difference is very close to one counter shaft tooth.

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Ooh, I love quality custom parts that are more than just bling. Are you going to weld that nut on and cut off the remaining threads?

Since I have the 230F now, I mentioned in another thread that I really want to fabricate a lightweight chassis for my XR200, and while I'm at it, go with the 218 stroker. Chuck, I would be very impressed if the XR218 w/cam, pipe and 11:1 compression is as good or better than the 230 I have now with piston, cam, pipe, 10.5:1 compression (based on other's findings), and now I just added the PWK. I am quite happy with the off-idle to mid-range torque this puts out now (top-end is good too with the cam). Much more power everywhere than my stock XR200 (besides the exhaust).

 

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3 hours ago, Chuck. said:

 

And lastly my friend and I are considering building XR230Fs but we are concerned about the bottom end torque delivery of a stock 230 engine compared to our 218s. I suspect a better comparison might be between a modded 230 to the 218 because the 218s have 11:1 CR plus more aggressive cams.  I have some dyno charts but results from several dynos are notoriously difficult to compare. Gear ratio differences also affect torque to the rear wheel and the 230s have a lower primary ratio (3.333 for XR vs 3.091 for 230).    That difference is very close to one counter shaft tooth.

I do like the quicker handling of the xr chassis better than the 230, but my only 230 reference is a bone stock one.

The 230 motor is very under stressed from the factory.  The low CR and a very conservative CDI soften the bottom end.  The 230 head has better flow potential, it does need some intake port work to make it flow.

The BBR 233 kit can be found for $150, the CDI can be changed out $40.  Just these parts will make more power than the 218.  Have Terry Miller do some head work and install one of his ST camshafts and now your talking.

Did I mention the electric start? Electric start, Electric start, Electric start.

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2 hours ago, mx4god said:

Ooh, I love quality custom parts that are more than just bling. Are you going to weld that nut on and cut off the remaining threads?

 

 

Yes on the shortening of the threads. No on the welding, Ti welding is way above my pay grade.  I will red loctite one end, and maybe drill and pin it in place.  I still need to gun drill it before I can consider is a finished part. I'm working on the swingarm pivot bolt now, and all ready made a bolt for the long motor mount bolt.

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Yes on the shortening of the threads. No on the welding, Ti welding is way above my pay grade.  I will red loctite one end, and maybe drill and pin it in place.  I still need to gun drill it before I can consider is a finished part. I'm working on the swingarm pivot bolt now, and all ready made a bolt for the long motor mount bolt.


Gotcha. Do you have some fixture/jig for drilling it? Mind saying how much the material was?

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I will drill it on a lathe.
I think the 300mm by 17mm Rod was around $30 shipped

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Mx4God if you want to compare your 230 to a well set up 218 we can arrange a ride up in Namadji or akeley mn. These are the two best single track riding areas in mn.

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Ill have the 230 vs 218 comparison tomorrow.  I successfully grafted a 230 crank and top end onto my XR cases and finished break in around the neighborhood. Will take it out in some sandy trails tomorrow

The new setup uses BBR piston (233 actual) with a Terry Miller ST 1.5 cam and mild port cleanup and match. Same PD carb and jetting as the 218 used and its very close. Triple stepped pipe made to Powroll specs. It has the 230 primary drive which did require a one tooth smaller countershaft sprocket. 

Starts one kick, idles perfect. Hard to say on the street but I believe its a small amount stronger everywhere and the 1.5 cam does give a little midrange surge as advertised. ALL of its power is in the sweet spot where you ride most, just like the much loved 218. Logic tells me a 15cc increase due to stroke only should benefit torque and I believe it did, but don't expect a great big difference. The sand ride tomorrow will tell the whole story but so far very happy with the "feel" and power delivery.

I did this 230/XR200 conversion because I wanted 6 speeds without the 12-15 lb penalty of e-start and the more reliable ball bearing cam and tensioner system. Like Chuck I wanted no less power than the 218 stroker, especially from idle through midrange. Both engines rev clean but have no top end power to speak of.

I wanted to avoid the 5 speed and kicker gear weakness of the 150F converted to 230 conversions.

My next option will be to try the later 05 up 150f engine with an EO 225 bore kit. People describe these as torque monsters too and they are the same weight as a kickstart engine but with e-start. Unfortunately only 5 speed. I use the extra gear a lot for connector roads between trails and would miss it. I do like the roller cam setup, lighter weight and drop in bore kit with no stroking. So far no one has stroked one and not a lot of cam choices either.

 

 

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