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1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

It would be good. Some  just ride trials bikes in the trails . It was decades ago that there was a trials scene.. like close to 35 years ago.. It would be great. 

 You got me thinking about it so I went to the Trials forum here and did a search. There were some references to Trials activity on Oahu and Kauai, all five to ten years old though.

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13 hours ago, G.P. said:

Only downside is the freewheeling backwards on failed hill climbs. 

 

This of course is one of the many instances where the LHRB is invaluable.

13 hours ago, G.P. said:

 

Edited by Chas_M

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1 hour ago, Chas_M said:

 

This of course is one of the many instances where the LHRB is invaluable.

I’ve realized that with a little throttle applied the bike won’t freewheel backwards and have adjusted my riding style accordingly. 

 

So what CAN’T you do with an auto clutch?  They can still be used just like a manual clutch when you want, or at least my Rekluse can be. I can clutch it to gain rpms in corners, hills, etc, and I can do all of the enduro techniques like the double blip to clear logs and obstacles.  I could see how it may cause beginners to not ever learn proper clutch techniques, but anybody that wants to progress will still put in the effort. Those that don’t probably never would with a tradition clutch either. I hated on them before trying one, but now that I have I’m failing to see the downside. 

Edited by G.P.

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2 hours ago, G.P. said:

I’ve realized that with a little throttle applied the bike won’t freewheel backwards and have adjusted my riding style accordingly. 

 

So what CAN’T you do with an auto clutch?  They can still be used just like a manual clutch when you want, or at least my Rekluse can be. I can clutch it to gain rpms in corners, hills, etc, and I can do all of the enduro techniques like the double blip to clear logs and obstacles.  I could see how it may cause beginners to not ever learn proper clutch techniques, but anybody that wants to progress will still put in the effort. Those that don’t probably never would with a tradition clutch either. I hated on them before trying one, but now that I have I’m failing to see the downside. 

 

 There may not be a down side, for you.

 As to your question, I realize you may not want to read 80 pages of this thread but if you just read the previous page you will get a pretty good answer, if you want more, keep reading.

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I’ve read the last page, along with many others and other threads.  Pros don’t use them.  Ok, got that.  Still haven’t read anything that can’t be done with one.

 

Fact is, if you didn’t see the clutch cover on a Rekluse equipped bike, you could ride it like a bike with a manual clutch all day and have no idea that there was an auto clutch in it.  I know, because I did exactly that on my buddy’s bike. He has some brand of auto clutch that uses a stock looking clutch cover, and was hiding the fact that he had one installed. I rode his bike a bunch one day and only found out later when he was adjusting his throttle cable...I went to test the throttle not realizing that the bike was in gear!  

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2 hours ago, G.P. said:

Fact is, if you didn’t see the clutch cover on a Rekluse equipped bike, you could ride it like a bike with a manual clutch all day and have no idea that there was an auto clutch in it.

 If you change the two times you used the word "you" in that sentence to "I" then I won't disagree with you.

Edited by motovita
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All the negatives and positive aspects are listed . Guys have given their preferences and why on either side.  The only thing left is really how it works in what one rides. . :excuseme: Some ride with auto here but almost every one I know has taken auto off and gone back to manual. Id say it’s 95% manual clutch riders here . It’s not like guys haven’t ridden both to compare.  Auto has been around a long time. If itwere so great way more would be riding and racing with it.  If it would give me an advantage I’d be thefirst to put one on.

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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I’d think with 80 pages to pull from you guys would able to give an example of something that can’t actually be done with an auto clutch that a manual clutch can do. All of the negatives I’ve seen listed have nothing to do with riding techniques on the trail.  Unless I’m missing something an auto clutch can do everything that a manual clutch can do and more.

 

Negatives ive come across:

- cost

- hinder learning clutch techniques (mostly for beginners, but can still be learned with auto installed)

- free wheel in reverse

- pros don’t use them / pride / stigma

 

Positives I’ve come across:

- can use taller (ie dual purpose) gearing and still go slow in the single track

- traction (slips clutch for you at slow speeds / can ride a gear higher)

- setup...takes some time to learn/tune

- no more stalling / flameouts  

- more oil capacity  

- save energy / arm pump

 

I still wouldn’t buy one if my 350 didn’t have crappy on/off clutch engagement and was plated with tall street gearing, but I don’t feel like I’m at any kind of disadvantage because of it.  I’m also secure enough in my masculinity to know that I don’t need what the pros use.  Pros use what they are used to and what they know works for them  (think Jeremy McGrath or Scott Summers).  When auto clutches have been around long for the current pros to have grown up with them we might see some used in the pro ranks.  Everybody needs to find what works for them, not care about what works for the pros (and that goes for almost every sport/hobby).

 

 

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Wild Alaskan said:

if you can't tell there is an auto clutch then you probably need to run an auto clutch

Your statement tells me that you’ve never ridden one, or at least one that was properly setup. I suspect that accounts for the majority of the negativity in this thread. I was the same. Thought I was too good for one.  They were only for beginners. Then I rode one without knowing it. After that experience I realized that there obviously weren’t any huge negatives to riding with one, and I decided to try to utilize it and see if there were positives.  To my surprise there were big positives on my particular bike...and it want just my lack of ability. Several of the best off-road riders around tried my bike, pre-auto clutch, with the same results. Wouldn’t waste the money or time installing it on my old KTM 2 stroke though. 

Edited by G.P.

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2 minutes ago, G.P. said:

Your statement tells me that you’ve never ridden one, or at least one that was properly setup. I suspect that accounts for the majority of the negativity in this thread. I was the same. Thought I was too good for one.  They were only for beginners. Then I rode one without knowing it. After that experience I realized that there obviously weren’t any huge negatives to riding with one, and I decided to try to utilize it and see if there were positives.  To my surprise there were big positives on my particular bike. Wouldn’t waste the money or time installing it on my old KTM 2 stroke though. 

If you had read the thread you would know I had ridden several. For low level tech riding, racing, everyday riders, they offer lots of advantages usually at the expense of reduced clutch skills long term. For Hard enduro, hill climbing, trials they are much more of a hindrance than a help.

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22 minutes ago, G.P. said:

Your statement tells me that you’ve never ridden one, or at least one that was properly setup. I suspect that accounts for the majority of the negativity in this thread. I was the same. Thought I was too good for one.  They were only for beginners. Then I rode one without knowing it. After that experience I realized that there obviously weren’t any huge negatives to riding with one, and I decided to try to utilize it and see if there were positives.  To my surprise there were big positives on my particular bike...and it want just my lack of ability. Several of the best off-road riders around tried my bike, pre-auto clutch, with the same results. Wouldn’t waste the money or time installing it on my old KTM 2 stroke though. 

Your statement tells me you haven’t ridden auto clutch in hard very steep tech hills up or down . The auto is a disadvantage. A dead engine in gear bike where modulating the clutch is tons better than only freewheeling and lhrb in downhills. Going up super steep hills you can’t count on the bike not rolling back. Your best bet is hoping you lay the bike over and the pegs hold the bike. It does that a bunch of times but also not at times too. And on super steep hills going up and you don’t make it? You aren’t able to still hold the bars and hold the lhrb. You have to jump off. The motor doesn’t die in gear and the rear wheel become a brake like it does with a manual. I thought you rode for 40 years and know this stuff?? Lhrb covers in auto situations but it also is not as reliable and easy in sketchy downhills.. especially close to walkdown situations. Guys ride with auto in hard enduro situations and realize it’s better to go back to manual.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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8 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Your statement tells me you haven’t ridden auto clutch in hard very steep tech hills up or down . The auto is a disadvantage. A dead engine in gear bike where modulating the clutch is tons better than only freewheeling and lhrb in downhills. Going up super steep hills you can’t count on the bike not rolling back. Your best bet is hoping you lay the bike over and the pegs hold the bike. It does that a bunch of times but also not at times too. And on super steep hills going up and you don’t make it? You aren’t able to still hold the bars and hold the lhrb. You have to jump off. The motor doesn’t die in gear and the rear wheel become a brake like it does with a manual. I thought you rode for 40 years and know this stuff?? Lhrb covers in auto situations but it also is not as reliable and easy in sketchy downhills.. especially close to walkdown situations. 

That’s all I ride. Yup, freewheeling on failed hill climb attempts is the big disadvantage in my experience. Mine doesn’t freewheel when riding down hill. It will if you stay at idle, but blip the throttle and the clutch is engaged as per normal until you pull the clutch in and disengage it. 

 

Yeah I could see bulldogging down a hill being an issue.  I can ride my bike down steeper stuff than I can bulldog though. 

Edited by G.P.
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36 minutes ago, G.P. said:

I’d think with 80 pages to pull from you guys would able to give an example of something that can’t actually be done with an auto clutch that a manual clutch can do. All of the negatives I’ve seen listed have nothing to do with riding techniques on the trail.  Unless I’m missing something an auto clutch can do everything that a manual clutch can do and more.

 

Negatives ive come across:

- cost

- hinder learning clutch techniques (mostly for beginners, but can still be learned with auto installed)

- free wheel in reverse

- pros don’t use them / pride / stigma

 

Positives I’ve come across:

- can use taller (ie dual purpose) gearing and still go slow in the single track

- traction (slips clutch for you at slow speeds / can ride a gear higher)

- setup...takes some time to learn/tune

- no more stalling / flameouts  

- more oil capacity  

- save energy / arm pump

 

I still wouldn’t buy one if my 350 didn’t have crappy on/off clutch engagement and was plated with tall street gearing, but I don’t feel like I’m at any kind of disadvantage because of it.  I’m also secure enough in my masculinity to know that I don’t need what the pros use.  Pros use what they are used to and what they know works for them  (think Jeremy McGrath or Scott Summers).  When auto clutches have been around long for the current pros to have grown up with them we might see some used in the pro ranks.  Everybody needs to find what works for them, not care about what works for the pros (and that goes for almost every sport/hobby).

 

 

 

 

 

The pros not using them has nothing to do with pride or stigma. It’s just if it’s better or not. I already know how it works . Noticing pros don’t use them just verifies my own experience. There’s a bunch of things pros do that I sure wouldn’t do because it just makes no sense for me or any regular rider. A simple one is having a good pipe skid plate guard for example. Pros get free pipes . Not me. :smirk:

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5 minutes ago, G.P. said:

That’s all I ride. Yup, freewheeling on failed hill climb attempts is the big disadvantage in my experience. Mine doesn’t freewheel when riding down hill. It will if you stay at idle, but blip the throttle and the clutch is engaged as per normal until you pull the clutch in and disengage it. 

 

Yeah I could see bulldogging down a hill being an issue.  I can ride my bike down steeper stuff than I can bulldog though. 

Oh you’re the alberta GP.. sorry got you mixed up with another GP vet rider..ok just noting it sorr:ride:

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44 minutes ago, G.P. said:

I’d think with 80 pages to pull from you guys would able to give an example of something that can’t actually be done with an auto clutch that a manual clutch can do.

 Or you could read it yourself...

 

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14 hours ago, G.P. said:

Yeah I could see bulldogging down a hill being an issue.  I can ride my bike down steeper stuff than I can bulldog though. 

 

Yet another instance where the LHRB is an asset.

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12 hours ago, Chas_M said:

 

Yet another instance where the LHRB is an asset.

It’s not as easy and as safe as a manual in gear and you just modulate the clutch. You have to hold the brake the whole time with an auto and lhrb in super steep downhills. You don’t want to blip the throttle going downhill type hills..

No need with manual. I think the manual and lhrb is overkill but that’s good giving more options. Id like it in switchbacks when going down zigzag down towards the left then flopping right. Now it’s just balance and control with the front brake lightly.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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You do lose some fine clutch control at very low engine speeds with the auto clutch. I've ridden dozens of Rekluse-equipped bikes, the auto-clutch was very apparent as soon as I started riding any of them. 

At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to brag about myself, I think my clutch control is better than the Rekluse. Do I stall on occasion? Yes, but I think by the time I stall on a manual, I would've resorted to paddling/walking on a auto, because of the lesser control.

On 12/27/2018 at 11:23 AM, Oregon Comrade said:

I think once (IF) the trials guys ever use auto clutches, we'll see them in extreme enduro, since the sports are very close from a "control" perspective.  Lots of talk about not stalling or better traction.  Maybe it's just me, but I never or very rarely EVER stall on accident.  I have 1 finger on the clutch at all times and am constantly modulating that clutch, every dip, root, rock, obstacle, lots of really slow speed pivot turns and wheel hops too.

I've ridden auto clutches and just don't gel with them.  Maybe I need to give them more time, I dunno, but never feel like I have the control I need, particularly at slow speeds, 0 - 5 mph.  Example, root section with bad ruts, get hung up on a root and want to ease my way up the side of the rut or pop up over the root with minimal to no run up.

I think the sport will go electric before that happens...at this point, a Rekluse would offer no advantage in Trials.

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10 minutes ago, Sierra_rider said:

 

At the risk of sounding like I'm trying to brag about myself, I think my clutch control is better than the Rekluse. Do I stall on occasion? Yes, but I think by the time I stall on a manual, I would've resorted to paddling/walking on a auto, because of the lesser control.

 

Yes you have less control with the Rekluse if you just let it do the work but you can still work the clutch manually of you choose to. It isnt one or the other. I have the z start pro on my 450 and love it. I use the clutch manually when I am in situations where I feel it will be better to have full control but having the auto clutch helps in situations where I may be in a gear high. It basically makes the bike more forgiving and gives me a little bit more time to react to avoid stalling or keep momentum up a hill. While I am pro auto clutch I also understand it may not be for everyone but for riding a YZ450 offroad it helps a lot. But I will say that it can make you lazy a little bit. 

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