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11 hours ago, tmeyer37 said:

Yes you have less control with the Rekluse if you just let it do the work but you can still work the clutch manually of you choose to. It isnt one or the other. I have the z start pro on my 450 and love it. I use the clutch manually when I am in situations where I feel it will be better to have full control but having the auto clutch helps in situations where I may be in a gear high. It basically makes the bike more forgiving and gives me a little bit more time to react to avoid stalling or keep momentum up a hill. While I am pro auto clutch I also understand it may not be for everyone but for riding a YZ450 offroad it helps a lot. But I will say that it can make you lazy a little bit. 

Your rear wheel won’t act like a brake with the motor off in gear like a manual does. In super steep tech down hills. That’s one place where I don’t like reliance on the lhrb or it’s going to freewheel. A blip of the throttle just will not work to engage the clutch. It’s actually sort of dangerous and not helping me ride easier. You want to go super slow in sections or you’ll more easily go off a cliff.  It’s a liability in steep downhills. For me it’s more important to be safer with a manual in those cases. 

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13 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

It’s not as easy and as safe as a manual in gear and you just modulate the clutch. You have to hold the brake the whole time with an auto and lhrb in super steep downhills. You don’t want to blip the throttle going downhill type hills..

No need with manual. I think the manual and lhrb is overkill but that’s good giving more options. Id like it in switchbacks when going down zigzag down towards the left then flopping right. Now it’s just balance and control with the front brake lightly.

That's all well and good but you do realize that my statements regarding the LHRB are directed primarily towards auto clutch users.

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8 minutes ago, Chas_M said:

That's all well and good but you do realize that my statements regarding the LHRB are directed primarily towards auto clutch users.

:thumbsup: I can see it being good for manual in tech riding too. ..and still just explaining some of the function on an auto and a manual clutch.It doesn’t matter if one only run auto clutch or not. The function use is still the same .

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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40 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

:thumbsup: I can see it being good for manual in tech riding too. ..and still just explaining some of the function on an auto and a manual clutch.It doesn’t matter if one only run auto clutch or not. The function use is still the same .

 If I could ever figure out how to mount a LHRB without compromising my clutch lever I'd do it in a heart beat, and I have no intention of dragging my feet on the ground, it would just be another way to apply the rear brake with my weight way back on the bike.

 By the way I did run across a Hawaiian Trials dealer, http://www.hawaiiridesinc.com/.

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Just read in the latest issue of " Dirt Bike" that Destry Abbott uses one. I've been thinking about trying one on my KTM. At 60 years young I'm not quite the rider I was 40 years ago. LOL. Dang bikes being so tall. Wife thinks she would like to try one on hers also, so I'm going to give it a try.

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10 minutes ago, motovita said:

 If I could ever figure out how to mount a LHRB without compromising my clutch lever I'd do it in a heart beat, and I have no intention of dragging my feet on the ground, it would just be another way to apply the rear brake with my weight way back on the bike.

 By the way I did run across a Hawaiian Trials dealer, http://www.hawaiiridesinc.com/.

You might want to check out the Clake SLR provides as it very ergonomic use of both clutch and rear brake.  The SLR is specifically adapted to the Brembo MC.  The SLR is priced competitively with other hydraulic LHRB systems.

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1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Your rear wheel won’t act like a brake with the motor off in gear like a manual does. In super steep tech down hills. That’s one place where I don’t like reliance on the lhrb or it’s going to freewheel. A blip of the throttle just will not work to engage the clutch. It’s actually sort of dangerous and not helping me ride easier. You want to go super slow in sections or you’ll more easily go off a cliff.  It’s a liability in steep downhills. For me it’s more important to be safer with a manual in those cases. 

As I said, it isnt for everyone as most products. I do see the issue with free wheeling when the engine is dead, on my 450 though there is still a bit of drag when in gear but not as much as a manual clutch with the lever out for sure. To be honest I don't really get into situations where this is an issue, the bike almost never stalls so the engine being off isnt really an issue, If I am free wheeling down a hill and need engine braking I blip the throttle with the clutch lever pulled in and as the rpms fall I release the lever engaging engine braking without a lung forward, it is a trick I learned from having a Rekluse for the past 4 years. Engine braking is nice but in my mind if it was a 2t I would have very little engine braking anyways so you just adjust, I actually prefer to free wheel down most hills. 

 

 Just like anything else there are positives and negatives and you can change your riding style to fit the clutch if the positives outweigh the negatives for you. The one negative that is hardest for me to get passed is not being able to bump start. 

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54 minutes ago, motovita said:

 If I could ever figure out how to mount a LHRB without compromising my clutch lever I'd do it in a heart beat, and I have no intention of dragging my feet on the ground, it would just be another way to apply the rear brake with my weight way back on the bike.

 By the way I did run across a Hawaiian Trials dealer, http://www.hawaiiridesinc.com/.

Yea that’s a new gasgas dealer and my Beta dealer sells trials bikes too. There are guys that ride trials bikes in the trails but no trials scene at all other than that. That dealer is 5 minutes from my house in central Oahu. My Beta dealer is even closer. The scene here is hard trails more than anything else. MX is dead. We rarely have even faster hare scrambles these days. It’s always seeming to always turn towards hard enduro hare and hounds more. It’s not as varied as it was for a variety of reasons. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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15 minutes ago, tmeyer37 said:

As I said, it isnt for everyone as most products. I do see the issue with free wheeling when the engine is dead, on my 450 though there is still a bit of drag when in gear but not as much as a manual clutch with the lever out for sure. To be honest I don't really get into situations where this is an issue, the bike almost never stalls so the engine being off isnt really an issue, If I am free wheeling down a hill and need engine braking I blip the throttle with the clutch lever pulled in and as the rpms fall I release the lever engaging engine braking without a lung forward, it is a trick I learned from having a Rekluse for the past 4 years. Engine braking is nice but in my mind if it was a 2t I would have very little engine braking anyways so you just adjust, I actually prefer to free wheel down most hills. 

 

 Just like anything else there are positives and negatives and you can change your riding style to fit the clutch if the positives outweigh the negatives for you. The one negative that is hardest for me to get passed is not being able to bump start. 

It’s what terrain  a person rides for sure as part of it. I had a brand new free rekluse auto that was on my fathers ktm and he didn’t like it and offered to me. I didt want it and it went to someone else. For local riding I want nothing to do with it.. Well for some parts anyway. I bet for riverbed rocks etc I figure it would work well. Auto is good for some riding but overall for me no way. I’m sure there are others here that like it but overall auto is not popular here.

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2 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

 A blip of the throttle just will not work to engage the clutch.

This is semi correct.   No one should "blip" their throttle to engage the clutch.  But a soft steady increase in rpm engages the clutch just fine and holds the bike still.

Think about your automatic car on a hill.  Can you give it enough gas to hold without the brake?  Do you "blip" the gas pedal to do this?

As for gnarly single track with near vertical elevation changes and switch backs, my RC has saved my a$$ more times than I can remember, and I now ride shit that I would just never even consider as I don't have to worry about whiskey throttle if shit gets dicey or stalling it because I got the r's too low.

2 guys that ride with our group were known as the "stall kings" and yes, they are not very experienced.  However, they both put RC in and now they ride up the same crazy shit we go up without stalling.

For the guys that have mastered the manual clutch, salute.  I'm no bad ass so I just work smarter instead of harder.

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8 minutes ago, KeyKeeper said:

This is semi correct.   No one should "blip" their throttle to engage the clutch.  But a soft steady increase in rpm engages the clutch just fine and holds the bike still.

Think about your automatic car on a hill.  Can you give it enough gas to hold without the brake?  Do you "blip" the gas pedal to do this?

As for gnarly single track with near vertical elevation changes and switch backs, my RC has saved my a$$ more times than I can remember, and I now ride shit that I would just never even consider as I don't have to worry about whiskey throttle if shit gets dicey or stalling it because I got the r's too low.

2 guys that ride with our group were known as the "stall kings" and yes, they are not very experienced.  However, they both put RC in and now they ride up the same crazy shit we go up without stalling.

For the guys that have mastered the manual clutch, salute.  I'm no bad ass so I just work smarter instead of harder.

Like I said it’s different fir different people in different situations. It’s not a matter of getting to engage the clutch going on a certain very steep downhill. With a manual in gear dead engine you are already where you want to be as far as speed. Lots of times you want the least amount of speed possible in certain sketchy sections. Once you pass that section no big deal. With an auto you are freewheeling and have to be hard on the lhrb constantly modulating and to engage the clutch for engine breaking thats still not enough you have to raise the throttle and make the bike go faster even if just a small bit.Thats a loser for some dangerous downhills. Especially when with a stock manual you just put the bike in a low gear and kill the motor and pull in the clutch once in a while. It’s way safer and more dummy proof since the bike is always braking with no input from you. 

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14 hours ago, tmeyer37 said:

Yes you have less control with the Rekluse if you just let it do the work but you can still work the clutch manually of you choose to. It isnt one or the other. I have the z start pro on my 450 and love it. I use the clutch manually when I am in situations where I feel it will be better to have full control but having the auto clutch helps in situations where I may be in a gear high. It basically makes the bike more forgiving and gives me a little bit more time to react to avoid stalling or keep momentum up a hill. While I am pro auto clutch I also understand it may not be for everyone but for riding a YZ450 offroad it helps a lot. But I will say that it can make you lazy a little bit. 

I want to be able to engage the clutch at extremely low rpm's if needed(at and just above idle). To adjust a Rekluse to engage that low, it might still stall. This isn't really an important feature on a 4 stroke, as they're likely to flame out if you're lugging at idle...but a good technique on a 300 if you have the ability to do it.

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1 hour ago, cman60 said:

Just read in the latest issue of " Dirt Bike" that Destry Abbott uses one. I've been thinking about trying one on my KTM. At 60 years young I'm not quite the rider I was 40 years ago. LOL. Dang bikes being so tall. Wife thinks she would like to try one on hers also, so I'm going to give it a try.

Maybe you should think about a lowered bike or buying a lower bike like a Beta. I’m a year behind you. Tall bikes for riding enduro is stupid to me but most manufacturers are still making tall bikes. It’s why the freeride and Xtrainers are more popular with much lower seat height. Those aren’t made for going fast though. I went Beta partly because it’s lower that the rest of the tall bikes. Try an auto. See how it is. Then you can see for yourself .

Maybe lowering the bike? I took off my tall seat and went back to stock seat height again. 

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22 minutes ago, KeyKeeper said:

No different than 2T vs 4T 😂

Yea well hard enduro racers are probably at about 99% 2 stroke 300 2 strokes and mx big class got all 450 4t and it’s about all of both running manual clutches.. not all but almost. :excuseme:

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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17 minutes ago, Sierra_rider said:

I want to be able to engage the clutch at extremely low rpm's if needed(at and just above idle). To adjust a Rekluse to engage that low, it might still stall. This isn't really an important feature on a 4 stroke, as they're likely to flame out if you're lugging at idle...but a good technique on a 300 if you have the ability to do it.

My 300 actually has parasitic drag at idle in gear so its already trying to engage.  I have throttle chopped it on purpose so many times trying to stall it...no dice.  Just purrs away. 

Now with that said, im using the Z start.  I wouldn't even think about it with the core/radius ones as they are a bit abrupt about engagement so setup is paramount.

My old 525 had same Z start, engaged right off idle...it WOULD stall every time I throttle chopped it trying to get over a step up on top of a hill...sucked balls for sure.  So on a 4T yeah, bad idea unless they are set up spot on so I can see people getting pissed off at them.  I never changed it, as I traded the 525 for my 300!

Edited by KeyKeeper

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