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Thinking of new Wr250f

By CML,
in WR250F/YZ250F/YZ250FX

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Grand Master

Hans Schmid

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I disagree completely. Same exact head and fuel injection. The YZ will only rev a smidgeon quicker due to less rotating mass. They will show the same hp on a dyno similar equipped.

I'm not getting my information on a "best guess basis", this is factual. Seeing two different bikes on the dyno, riding both the bike's back to back, the YZF is considerably faster. I'm not saying better, just faster... I'm sure Derek from HP bikes would back up my earlier statement. The bike's are similar, but different. Add another 20lbs to the FX and you'll have a slower, less powerful, heavier YZF...

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XRalways

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Depending on the type of riding you do, the FX's "no kickstart" is a big no-no for me personally.

This is exactly the reason for me staying away from the Husky's and some KTM's. Some do not even have an option to put a kickstart. At least the '17 yami's have the option.

If you are 50miles out in the mountains or the bush, and your battery dies. Sucks for you. Dont send me into the bush without a kicker.

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Grand Master

Hans Schmid

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This is exactly the reason for me staying away from the Husky's and some KTM's. Some do not even have an option to put a kickstart. At least the '17 yami's have the option.

If you are 50miles out in the mountains or the bush, and your battery dies. Sucks for you. Dont send me into the bush without a kicker.

Lol, you ain't going to fix a failed EFI system, blown trans, bad stator etc etc in the bush either...

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Grand Master

Hans Schmid

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Ridiculous counter. Your examples are very very rare with modern bikes,,,,,dead batteries are quite common with ALL vehicles. And there is ZERO warning before failure.

Lol, so I'm supposed to appeal to you and your needs too? You just work on your shitty suspension and we'll talk about kickstarters vs batteries another time. That being said, failures happen period. KTM has been running their 450f since 2007 with no kicker (10yrs), their 250/350 since 2012 (5yrs) with no kicker and they keep selling bikes to guys to ride in the bush. Now virtually every single bike they sell doesn't come with a kicker. Yamaha is following in KTMs footsteps, and even Honda is getting on board. Sherco doesn't sell a bike with a kicker in their entire lineup and they have just won a World Enduro Championship, and have a top rider in Hard Enduro...

Edited by Monk
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Grand Master

GuyGraham

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There's only one reason bikes dont have a kickstart

Its not coz they dont need them any more or for weight saving either. Its to save costs. End of.

Trying to justify no kicker by the success of their respective works teams is irrelevant to the average joe who's running a bike on budget and cant afford a new battery every meet to ensure tip top performance.

Ive seen more than one ktm stranded in a race with a dead battery coz its got no kicker to start it coz the battery was marginal and went flat before bike was started after a fall.

Granted efi bikes start much better but its still a shite idea to have no kicker for 99.9% of riders. To not have option to retro fit is just plain stupid.

Accountants runnibg the company anyone

Big adventure dont have them coz you'd never kick them over, not coz its a good idea!

Edited by GuyGraham
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Grand Master

Piney Woods

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Lol, so I'm supposed to appeal to you and your needs too? You just work on your shitty suspension and we'll talk about kickstarters vs batteries another time. That being said, failures happen period. KTM has been running their 450f since 2007 with no kicker (10yrs), their 250/350 since 2012 (5yrs) with no kicker and they keep selling bikes to guys to ride in the bush. Now virtually every single bike they sell doesn't come with a kicker. Yamaha is following in KTMs footsteps, and even Honda is getting on board. Sherco doesn't sell a bike with a kicker in their entire lineup and they have just won a World Enduro Championship, and have a top rider in Hard Enduro...

Nothing there addresses my point. You learn those deflective moves in some political forum?

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XRalways

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Im not saying that nothing else can go wrong; but when you are in the bush you can use all the help you can get. To me, having a backup / fail safe way to start my bike, is a great idea. Yes, sometimes stuff just breaks, and thats that. Then there are those times when you say "if we only had a ....".

In my opinion, I want a kickstart. Not saying that the technology is not there to not have them, but for me, its what I want in the product I am purchasing.

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Bitteeinbit

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Jesus, why are you getting so defensive Monk? No one is bashing the FX. As another mentioned, the only reason kickers are being taken off is to save 2lbs (so the company can claim even more weight loss over the previous year, amazing!!!) and more importantly, some penny counters at HQ told them to do it. Take away 1xxxx kicks starters saves money, and selling them as an option makes you even more money. It's not because it's better for the rider or that the bikes are now impervious to dead batteries, but simply because it saves the company money. I can understand that. Keeping the option to add them is nice, even if the markup is steep.

 

It's also worth noting that it all depends on the type of riding one does. 80% of riders in Europe and North America load up their bike on a trailer, drive to a trail and ride there, then load up and come back. Never too far away from civilization, and relatively few do multi-day rides. Just three weeks ago I went on a three-day ride with 4 other guys. One guy on a TTR got a flat battery... Managed to scrounge a $7 scooter battery from a local village and made it fit, but that one died afterwards as well. Ended up that his ground was messed up and his rectifier as well. He had to bump start the bike the whole trip, but luckily since it was a TTR 250 he could let it idle all day as we stopped to navigate, or waited for deep river crossings and so on. Having a kick starter would have saved him/us a lot of trouble. I've been in similar situations myself when a kicker on my 450 (and other bikes) saved my ride/trip. 

 

Lot's of people on the KTM forums are up in arms because of the 17 decision to get rid of all kick starters, so it's not like everyone is happy. The FX is an interesting bike, and it's meant to be raced. That's the main reason they took away the kicker. Doing a 6 hour race you have fewer chances of something going wrong than doing a 12-day enduro ride out in the middle of nowhere. I've seen kick starters save the day more times than I can count, and lack of kicks cause a lot of grief that could have been avoided. I'll stick to bikes with headlights  (as 70% of my multi-day rides end at night even if I didn't plan to) and kickstarters. I'm still in the same boat though: get a WR because it has lights and kicker, or get an FX and add lights, kicker, bash pate etc... The FX looks like a great bike, but it's a more race focused bike, not really an proper enduro bike (that term has been diluted over time imo). 

Edited by Bitteeinbit
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Grand Master

Hans Schmid

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Jesus, why are you getting so defensive Monk? No one is bashing the FX. As another mentioned, the only reason kickers are being taken off is to save 2lbs (so the company can claim even more weight loss over the previous year, amazing!!!) and more importantly, some penny counters at HQ told them to do it. Take away 1xxxx kicks starters saves money, and selling them as an option makes you even more money. It's not because it's better for the rider or that the bikes are now impervious to dead batteries, but simply because it saves the company money. I can understand that. Keeping the option to add them is nice, even if the markup is steep.

It's also worth noting that it all depends on the type of riding one does. 80% of riders in Europe and North America load up their bike on a trailer, drive to a trail and ride there, then load up and come back. Never too far away from civilization, and relatively few do multi-day rides. Just three weeks ago I went on a three-day ride with 4 other guys. One guy on a TTR got a flat battery... Managed to scrounge a $7 scooter battery from a local village and made it fit, but that one died afterwards as well. Ended up that his ground was messed up and his rectifier as well. He had to bump start the bike the whole trip, but luckily since it was a TTR 250 he could let it idle all day as we stopped to navigate, or waited for deep river crossings and so on. Having a kick starter would have saved him/us a lot of trouble. I've been in similar situations myself when a kicker on my 450 (and other bikes) saved my ride/trip.

Lot's of people on the KTM forums are up in arms because of the 17 decision to get rid of all kick starters, so it's not like everyone is happy. The FX is an interesting bike, and it's meant to be raced. That's the main reason they took away the kicker. Doing a 6 hour race you have fewer chances of something going wrong than doing a 12-day enduro ride out in the middle of nowhere. I've seen kick starters save the day more times than I can count, and lack of kicks cause a lot of grief that could have been avoided. I'll stick to bikes with headlights (as 70% of my multi-day rides end at night even if I didn't plan to) and kickstarters. I'm still in the same boat though: get a WR because it has lights and kicker, or get an FX and add lights, kicker, bash pate etc... The FX looks like a great bike, but it's a more race focused bike, not really an proper enduro bike (that term has been diluted over time imo).

LOL, I'm not being defensive. People bitch and whine about the weight of dirt bikes, so then when a manufacturer lightens their bike people bitching moan about not having a kickstarter. It's a no-win situation. I have a FX and I haven't touched the kickstarter since day one and never had a single issue. If you want a bike with a kickstarter, it's simple, just don't buy a bike without a kickstarter...

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