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4 strokes? I THINK I've finally learned my lesson

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That's one fussy biatch of a 4T for oil changes. 

 

Honda says I can ride mine, like the plonker I am, for 15 hours before a change is needed. This is the slo-mo crappy rider setting who doesn't compete. 

 

I fill up the separate transmission with same stuff I put in my smoker. I fill up the motor with Castrol GTX semi-synthetic 10W-40 that I got on close out for $2 per quart. I change the filter every other oil change with a cheap O paper one. 

 

Breadth of power abounding with fun. 

 

Sorry if I missed it. What's the new bike, what did you get?

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Whoa, this thread is about finally learning our lesson. 

If you have not heard the inglorious "PUKA" sound of a 4 stroke MX motor death, you are not part of this thread. 

I am not talking about "live forever"XL, XR, XT and DRZ motors, they are dependable as sin. 

It is the CRF and YZF and other "F" 250 and 450 motors. 

10-15 hours between oil changes? I go for 16 hour rides! 

I have a street driven KTM 125EXC that went 7 years without cracking a gasket. 

Only sinking it in a river stopped that trend. 

 

My 2001 KTM 300 and 380 have never had a ring or piston replaced. Tons of compression. 

2 oil changes a year unless I crossed deep water more than that. Original cylinder, never replated. 

True, I am trail riding, not racing.

The 125 was raced a bit, and it was also run for hours on the highway at 110 kph. 

As for power delivery, the 380 power delivery is very much like a 450 MX, only there is more of it. 

Very linear, no noticeable powerband, just dirt grabbing throb from idle to redline. 

As mentioned, even a KTM 125 can be dialed in for more linear, smooth power delivery with the adjustable powervalve. 

 

The fact is, the new 4 stroke 450s are a technical marvel. They deliver mind numbing power and traction. 

I raved about mine while it ran. I didn't mind the extra 30 lbs. The traction and wheelies were worth it. 

Most engine failures are the fault of the owner? I've owned probably a  couple dozen bikes in 40 years. 

I am a reliability expert in industry. I'd suggest that the 450s are a bit fragile. 

And when it happens to you, on the long push home, you'll wish you had a 2 stroke instead...

 

Steve

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Whoa, this thread is about finally learning our lesson.

If you have not heard the inglorious "PUKA" sound of a 4 stroke MX motor death, you are not part of this thread.

I am not talking about "live forever"XL, XR, XT and DRZ motors, they are dependable as sin.

It is the CRF and YZF and other "F" 250 and 450 motors.

10-15 hours between oil changes? I go for 16 hour rides!

I have a street driven KTM 125EXC that went 7 years without cracking a gasket.

Only sinking it in a river stopped that trend.

My 2001 KTM 300 and 380 have never had a ring or piston replaced. Tons of compression.

2 oil changes a year unless I crossed deep water more than that. Original cylinder, never replated.

True, I am trail riding, not racing.

The 125 was raced a bit, and it was also run for hours on the highway at 110 kph.

As for power delivery, the 380 power delivery is very much like a 450 MX, only there is more of it.

Very linear, no noticeable powerband, just dirt grabbing throb from idle to redline.

As mentioned, even a KTM 125 can be dialed in for more linear, smooth power delivery with the adjustable powervalve.

The fact is, the new 4 stroke 450s are a technical marvel. They deliver mind numbing power and traction.

I raved about mine while it ran. I didn't mind the extra 30 lbs. The traction and wheelies were worth it.

Most engine failures are the fault of the owner? I've owned probably a couple dozen bikes in 40 years.

I am a reliability expert in industry. I'd suggest that the 450s are a bit fragile.

And when it happens to you, on the long push home, you'll wish you had a 2 stroke instead...

Steve

Yep, since I had to push an rm250 out from the bush one day I can heavily caution that any other two stroke bike will do the same. Learn from my misfortune and don't ever own a two stroke.

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Yep, since I had to push an rm250 out from the bush one day I can heavily caution that any other two stroke bike will do the same. Learn from my misfortune and don't ever own a two stroke.

LOL, how much did the rm cost you to fix  ;)

 

Again, I cant speak to the Honda X but I poured over ktm's 450's and found NOTHING but happy guys as far as motor longevity.  There were a few FI issues, like sensors or pumps that bites people but nothing really all that major or at minimum a pattern.   

 

But everyone should agree that if a 4s takes a major chit its just going to be expensive vs a 2s.

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LOL, how much did the rm cost you to fix  ;)

 

Again, I cant speak to the Honda X but I poured over ktm's 450's and found NOTHING but happy guys as far as motor longevity.  There were a few FI issues, like sensors or pumps that bites people but nothing really all that major or at minimum a pattern.   

 

But everyone should agree that if a 4s takes a major chit its just going to be expensive vs a 2s.

 

Ya gotta pay if ya wanna play.

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LOL, how much did the rm cost you to fix ;)

Again, I cant speak to the Honda X but I poured over ktm's 450's and found NOTHING but happy guys as far as motor longevity. There were a few FI issues, like sensors or pumps that bites people but nothing really all that major or at minimum a pattern.

But everyone should agree that if a 4s takes a major chit its just going to be expensive vs a 2s.

So if a 4s crank goes, it's inherently more expensive to fix than a 2t crank? Interesting. Edited by cooldudesmd

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So if a 4s crank goes, it's inherently more expensive to fix than a 2t crank? Interesting.

If they let go, they take a lot of components with it vs a 2s.

 

On a total rebuild the differences between the two motor types aren't all that far apart.  My mechanic says a complete rebuild on a 2s is about 1300 vs 1800 on the 4s.  That's not a catastrophic failure cost, just a rebuild.  To me that difference isn't all that bad. 

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LOL, how much did the rm cost you to fix ;)

But everyone should agree that if a 4s takes a major chit its just going to be expensive vs a 2s.

Good point. The fix was cheap but the push was still long! Damn two strokes! :)

I think +most+ bikes taking a dump on you is preventable; but that's just what I think.

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Good point. The fix was cheap but the push was still long! Damn two strokes! :)

I think +most+ bikes taking a dump on you is preventable; but that's just what I think.

Well lemme ask you this, would you rather be pushing a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

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Well lemme ask you this, would you rather be pushing a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

Shoot I don't know about yall, but I'd rather be riding a 2t or 4 with any of yall than push anything!

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Well lemme ask you this, would you rather be pushing a 2 stroke or 4 stroke?

Neither!

Everyone should try it once tho. Even a 125 gassed up and outfitted with guards is at least 200 pounds. Push it up a trail with an incline for just 10 minutes. Humbling experience.

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True. I prolly spend more time than average pushing my bikes. I'd much rather push my yz than my drz!

 

That's similar to me, except I spend an above average time spent picking them up per ride.  :ph34r:  :unsure:  :smirk:

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Yep, since I had to push an rm250 out from the bush one day I can heavily caution that any other two stroke bike will do the same. Learn from my misfortune and don't ever own a two stroke.

Pearls before swine, I am so embarassed...

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Pearls before swine, I am so embarassed...

You had one experience with failure on a husaberg thumper but extend this to all other four strokes. It's just another over generalization typically posted here. My signature contains other examples.
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Seems the 2 strokes go through twice as much gas plus mixing oil. Seems to add up quickly. I believe cost is about the same.

I own both. The 2stroke is fun but when it's time to race, four stroke.

 

Two strokes are not as efficient as FI four strokes...but twice as much gas? You're exaggerating. My four stroke buddies get about 75 to 80 miles out of a 2.2 gallon tank. I get about 85 to 90 miles out of my 2.9 gallon tank. So the difference is about 5 miles per gallon. The cost is not nearly the same. A four stroke costs $1000 more than an equivalent two stroke. I can buy 100 quarts of Amsoil Interceptor for $1000. I figure it costs me an additional $2.30 in pre-mix and another $1.20 in gas, per ride, vs a similar sized four stroke. It would take 285 rides of 90 miles to eat up the $1000 difference in purchase price. However, I change my transmission oil every 20 hours...per the owners manual. Most four stroke owners change their engine oil at least twice in 20 hours...add a couple of oil filters to the tally and the four stroke ends up being more expensive to operate per ride. 

Edited by Cactus73

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Why is there such a divide between 2t and 4 guys? Ive never had the opportunity to ride a 2t and really want to, but I've never understood the division. I get why no one likes quad guys lol but even then, I'd prefer to ride with a cool quad guy or gal over no one at all.

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