Stic metering block

[redrider144]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:37 PM, Darkkyn said:

So I went riding in basically Southwick conditions today.  Ran pretty solid, but once under a load for a couple of laps it started doing the lean knock knock hanging idle thing.  Was also turning the pipe gold.  Came back and put in the 190m, and turned in the air screw a bit, and helped a bit, but not enough.  So put the 40p back in, and lowered the clip back to 3rd slot.  Played with the air screw to try and find a happy spot. Went back out and was a bit better but now the off idle is gurggly again.  Would be awesome if I could figure out how to clean that part up.  Plug looked perfect though, no spooge, great response.  

As mentioned, off idle is likely the needle straight section.  That's why I asked right away if others were running JD jet needles (my suspicion was mostly not).

Needle straight section is too rich, you've been trying to compensate by leaning out the pilot, causing hanging idle.

Edited March 15, 2017 by redrider144

[c-slak]

3 hours ago, KPRacing said:

I don't have much experience with the jd needles but the suzuki needle may be close in taper & is available in thicker straight portions. Again, not sure but I've heard people saying this. Personally, I don't like "mystery" needles. Not saying anything bad about the jd needles. I just like to know exactly what I have for a needle so I can easily make a choice if I need a change in tune. To put numbers to tge jd needles, they could always be measured & plotted out. This would give numbers to them for a nice easy cross reference to any other needle.

I agree and have quite a few Suzuki needles.  The drastic 3rd taper made them a bit of a challenge for me to tune in the midrange. 

[3pine]

Just curious how many of you have ordered the STIC and received one ? Are they definitely available ?

[Darkkyn]

They totally are.  Got mine quickly they even included a couple likely jets for a smooth transition.  Totally recommend Harris Performance as your retailer. 

[harrperf]

I have shipped a few out probably to the members posting here..

But I am currently on hold at this point awaiting some more testing - on my end and the users currently with them.  I want to really nail down the 17 ktm's - and I need to get STIC approval on both final pricing and what Im told is a final patent approval so that we can move forward with success for all consumers and such.

KPR has been testing his arse off trying to get final recommendations together for each combo he encounters - I think he has done a good job of needle assortments.

I had a really big test day on an older CR to do some of the data logging I mentioned early in this thread - only to have the servo powervalve motor fail....really bummed on that.

 

I want to see what 2 stroke nuts final report is - and his buddy with a yz who also lives in AZ regarding altitude opinions.

[Darkkyn]

Last I heard 2strokenut had to return the Suzuki carb, so I'm not sure he's still in the position to test.  I'll be testing at a location tomorrow that will afford me to make changes and test right away.  

I am very picky on my jetting.  I won't accept a gain for an equal loss.  So far, the STIC creates more power everywhere, is incredibly responsive and makes the top end seem like a very robustly tuned 250, with quite a bit of run out.  It also makes the bike rev quite a bit faster, so much so, that once I finalize the needle selection, I will step down to a 48 to get more breadth in each gear.  But, the jetting is still not quite totally happy, but I'm confident I'll get it dialed shortly. 

[3pine]

8 hours ago, Darkkyn said:

Last I heard 2strokenut had to return the Suzuki carb, so I'm not sure he's still in the position to test.  I'll be testing at a location tomorrow that will afford me to make changes and test right away.  

I am very picky on my jetting.  I won't accept a gain for an equal loss.  So far, the STIC creates more power everywhere, is incredibly responsive and makes the top end seem like a very robustly tuned 250, with quite a bit of run out.  It also makes the bike rev quite a bit faster, so much so, that once I finalize the needle selection, I will step down to a 48 to get more breadth in each gear.  But, the jetting is still not quite totally happy, but I'm confident I'll get it dialed shortly. 

Very good to hear you like the STIC . I had a long converse with KPR yesterday and now have a lot better understanding of the development of the STIC. 

  I will be receiving one soon and installing on a 17 300 xc . I have RK Tek head , V4 reeds , stock pipe. I will start out with 91 oct alcohol free fuel with Legend Performance oil 50:1 . Altitude 4000 ft and up. Pretty dry air most of the time. 

The Legend Performance oil was recommended by RK Tek . Apparently it is not readily available like most of the common oils . I ordered mine off the web sight. RKTek says a noticeable increase in power with superior lubrication , smokeless and no residue carbon . I'm excited to give it a go! 

[Montesa]

1 hour ago, 3pine said:

Very good to hear you like the STIC . I had a long converse with KPR yesterday and now have a lot better understanding of the development of the STIC. 

  I will be receiving one soon and installing on a 17 300 xc . I have RK Tek head , V4 reeds , stock pipe. I will start out with 91 oct alcohol free fuel with Legend Performance oil 50:1 . Altitude 4000 ft and up. Pretty dry air most of the time. 

The Legend Performance oil was recommended by RK Tek . Apparently it is not readily available like most of the common oils . I ordered mine off the web sight. RKTek says a noticeable increase in power with superior lubrication , smokeless and no residue carbon . I'm excited to give it a go! 

You actually fell for things like this on their site? 61% decrease in fuel consumption because of the oil? ? 

I have put over 18,000 miles and have never touched anything, going from 8 miles per gal.to 13 with no add on parts

Time to dust off my London Bridge deeds. ? 

Oh, everybody that's buying into STIC being some kind of revolutionary technology. Similar stuff like this has been around for years in the drag racing world. Atomize the fuel better and you get better performance. Nothing like 40% though. 

Here's a common Holley mod. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/carburetor-showdown/ Very simple, very obvious what's happening. Grabbing an extra 20 or 30 hp on a 1,000 hp engine can make or break in the NHRA. A 2% to 3% increase in this world is significant. Here's a nice explanation of what's happening and the general idea applies to all carbs. Well worth reading.  http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/holley-annular-vs-down-leg-boosters.5229/ Done correctly you gain a small increase in horsepower. You should get better throttle response at lower RPM, especially with oversized carbs, although this really wasn't the goal.

I used to run these. Still had all the jetting issues but there was a small difference in overall ET times with the better atomization. Select the bore size and number of holes based on carb size and engine displacement. Then decide the height of the units which made a slight difference based on RPM due to some rather complicated airflow testing. The units alter airflow changing the fuel signal and dispersion efficiency. 

I scrapped it years ago for FI like everybody else has done in the class. Even NASCAR has dumped carbs. Vastly easier to tune and more power. 

 

 

 

[DEMI]

12 minutes ago, Montesa said:

You actually fell for things like this on their site? 61% decrease in fuel consumption because of the oil? ? 

I have put over 18,000 miles and have never touched anything, going from 8 miles per gal.to 13 with no add on parts

Time to dust off my London Bridge deeds. ? 

Oh, everybody that's buying into STIC being some kind of revolutionary technology. Similar stuff like this has been around for years in the drag racing world. Atomize the fuel better and you get better performance. Nothing like 40% though. 

Here's a common Holley mod. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/carburetor-showdown/ Very simple, very obvious what's happening. Grabbing an extra 20 or 30 hp on a 1,000 hp engine can make or break in the NHRA. A 2% to 3% increase in this world is significant. Here's a nice explanation of what's happening and the general idea applies to all carbs. Well worth reading.  http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/holley-annular-vs-down-leg-boosters.5229/ Done correctly you gain a small increase in horsepower. You should get better throttle response at lower RPM, especially with oversized carbs, although this really wasn't the goal.

I used to run these. Still had all the jetting issues but there was a small difference in overall ET times with the better atomization. Select the bore size and number of holes based on carb size and engine displacement. Then decide the height of the units which made a slight difference based on RPM due to some rather complicated airflow testing. The units alter airflow changing the fuel signal and dispersion efficiency. 

I scrapped it years ago for FI like everybody else has done in the class. Even NASCAR has dumped carbs. Vastly easier to tune and more power. 

 

 

 

what is your point?? 

[Montesa]

1 hour ago, DEMI said:

what is your point?? 

Seriously? 60% increase in fuel mileage just by using some kind of super oil? 40% power increase by using something similar to the gadget I posted?

Has everybody lost their minds around here? Next somebody is going to post something about fuel magnets and 100 mpg. ? 

I have no doubt STIC works, it's a very basic idea that's been around for years. It's the outlandish claims being made. ?

[DEMI]

4 minutes ago, Montesa said:

Seriously? 60% increase in fuel mileage just by using some kind of super oil? 40% power increase by using something similar to the gadget I posted?

Has everybody lost their minds around here? Next somebody is going to post something about fuel magnets and 100 mpg. ? 

I have no doubt STIC works, it's a very basic idea that's been around for years. It's the outlandish claims being made. ?

Hey, just looking for some sorta clarity as you went on about FI and all. But I agree with some of those numbers! And yes, some have lost their minds here Montesa.

[zig06]

If the STIC improves performance, be it top end HP or general rideability (which it sounds like it does) then great.  Actual increases made by any company be it KTM or ProCircut (and everyone in between) are always suspect.  But if the STIC really is better than stock then only you as the consumer can decide if it's worth trying.  Just about everyone here knows that there's nothing that you can bolt on to a stock bore machine (minus NOS) that will up power by a significant margin.  But a little here and a little there does add up, so if you have a carb'd bike and you are still looking then the STIC is worth considering.

Personally I do not know of anyone in my riding circle that has tried one, but maybe this summer I will.

[DEMI]

There are riding reviews and people besides KPR that have tested it and come back positively.  I love mine on a 500 and others with different bikes like theirs.  Really don't think it is a small black and white classified ad in the back of Popular Mechanics with a wizard logo. Thing works, plain and simple. Whether the price is for everyone, that remains to be seen and nothing wrong with not buying it because of that. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by DEMI

[3pine]

4 hours ago, Montesa said:

You actually fell for things like this on their site? 61% decrease in fuel consumption because of the oil? ? 

I have put over 18,000 miles and have never touched anything, going from 8 miles per gal.to 13 with no add on parts

Time to dust off my London Bridge deeds. ? 

Oh, everybody that's buying into STIC being some kind of revolutionary technology. Similar stuff like this has been around for years in the drag racing world. Atomize the fuel better and you get better performance. Nothing like 40% though. 

Here's a common Holley mod. http://www.hotrod.com/articles/carburetor-showdown/ Very simple, very obvious what's happening. Grabbing an extra 20 or 30 hp on a 1,000 hp engine can make or break in the NHRA. A 2% to 3% increase in this world is significant. Here's a nice explanation of what's happening and the general idea applies to all carbs. Well worth reading.  http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/holley-annular-vs-down-leg-boosters.5229/ Done correctly you gain a small increase in horsepower. You should get better throttle response at lower RPM, especially with oversized carbs, although this really wasn't the goal.

I used to run these. Still had all the jetting issues but there was a small difference in overall ET times with the better atomization. Select the bore size and number of holes based on carb size and engine displacement. Then decide the height of the units which made a slight difference based on RPM due to some rather complicated airflow testing. The units alter airflow changing the fuel signal and dispersion efficiency. 

I scrapped it years ago for FI like everybody else has done in the class. Even NASCAR has dumped carbs. Vastly easier to tune and more power. 

 

 

 

No I didn't read that anywhere and fall for anything as you suggest. I only went by what Kelsey said (RKTEK) when he runs it in his snowmobiles. He had no sales pitch just honest knowledge. He has a lot more experience than most of us with 2 strokes. We'll see how we like it. 

[Darkkyn]

Current jetting, 50 degrees around 400' elevation, 56% humidity on TX300, 38mm STIC modded Keihin with 92 octane ethanol free Super unleaded.  

38p, 188m, N2ZL #2 AS 1.5 turns out #7 slide. 

[redrider144]

5 minutes ago, Darkkyn said:

Current jetting, 50 degrees around 400' elevation, 56% humidity on TX300, 38mm STIC modded Keihin with 92 octane ethanol free Super unleaded.  

38p, 188m, N2ZL #2 AS 1.5 turns out #7 slide. 

You haven't tried any Suzuki needles yet?

[KennyMc]

188 main? :yikes:

[2strokenut]

On 3/18/2017 at 9:52 AM, Montesa said:

Seriously? 60% increase in fuel mileage just by using some kind of super oil? 40% power increase by using something similar to the gadget I posted?

Has everybody lost their minds around here? Next somebody is going to post something about fuel magnets and 100 mpg. ? 

I have no doubt STIC works, it's a very basic idea that's been around for years. It's the outlandish claims being made. ?

Omg yes, so basic! Lemme just go call Derek and tell him how basic this shit is and that's it's all been solved and can relax. 

[Darkkyn]

1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

You haven't tried any Suzuki needles yet?

Just the NECJ, but had a stumble in the midrange that I'm trying to work around.  Still not 100% happy with the jetting, but I'm picky. Going to get a #8 slide now to aid my efforts  

 

1 hour ago, KennyMc said:

188 main? :yikes:

Tried 180-195, and that one seems to work the best for my bike

Edited March 20, 2017 by Darkkyn

[Montesa]

10 hours ago, 2strokenut said:

Omg yes, so basic! Lemme just go call Derek and tell him how basic this shit is and that's it's all been solved and can relax. 

And he'll agree 100%, it's a well known principal. What he's done is implemented it in our 2 stroke carbs with a design that apparently works well. That's the trick. 

The affect is well covered in any fluid dynamics classes, has been well known for many, many years and used in other applications with success as I pointed out on the Holleys.