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2013 450 Rocker Arm DLC Coating Failure..... Warranty ?

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I was adjusting the intake valves and noticed this ! 

 

Should this be absolutely be replaced, or is it OK to run ?  Its a 2013 450 XC-F with 72 hours. 

 

I had been aware of the KTM recall for the 2013 450/500 rocker arm due to poor DLC (Diamond-Like Carbon) coating, this looks to be the same issue to me.

I didn't think the recall had applied to my bike since I had entered my VIN on the KTM website, and it only had the fuel line recall come up. Now I'm wishing I could have the warranty work done. 

 

You guys think there's any chance the dealer would initiate a warranty for this ? I'm going to see the dealer this week and see what they say. Any advice ?

 

20170205_150740.jpg

Edited by CR2504life
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DOn't know but I have that same bike and now feel I need to go check mine.........

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So I went to the dealer today and spoke with the service manager, it went just slightly better than my expectations.

 

#1 - He looked up my VIN and found out my bike already had the rocker arm replaced on 03/2013 under warranty !

#2 - I asked if he would help me by making the request to KTM for the part replacement, he agreed but he said there was very little chance since its an older bike. He said to email him the pictures of the rocker damage.

#3 - He said that we should both contact KTM Canada separately about the issue for best chances.

 

So it was replaced and only 72 hours later is failing again ! Now I may have to pay out of packet hundreds of dollars it KTM wont help.

RockyMountainATVMC lists this rocker for $234 USD        78936060100

 

What do you guys think of my chances with KTM ?  How should I contact KTM Canada ?

 

 

 

 

Edited by CR2504life

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I asked the service department, and the technical bulletin # from KTM for this recall is TB1301

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TECHNICAL INFORMATION                                                                                                                  

1

36/12/208/HQ-E / Action code !! Author: FH September 24th 2012

Applies to: INTAKE ROCKER ARM

Model: 450 SX-F/450 XC-F/450 SMR MY 2013

Restrictions: VINs of affected motorcycles are linked in the Dealer.net

Countries: All

Basic information: Because of a problem while preparing the process for coating the rocker arm with high-strength DLC, the coating detaches from the rocker arm. This leads to abrasion between the rocker arm and the camshaft and consequently to engine damage.

 

Repair / modification procedure:

Exchange the intake rocker arm on affected motorcycles according to the procedure described in Repair Manual 3206145 in the appendix.

Before installing the new rocker arm, polish the intake cam with the polishing felt included with the rocker arm. If severe wear is visible on the surface of the camshaft, replace the camshaft as well.

Damage or modification parts:

Damage parts to replace: a) intake rocker arm 789 36 060 000 if necessary, camshaft 789 36 010 033

New part: 789 36 060 000 as of production code GXX09XX

All replaced parts must be returned to KTM customer service.

Credit for the warranty application is not issued until the damaged parts are received by customer service.

GXX09XX

Defect-free parts as of production Sept.2012 (=09)

 

TECHNICAL INFORMATION                                                                                                                           

2

Entries for warranty application:

Warranty type: TI warranty

Module: 36 Cylinder head/valve train

Damage code: 170 Defective coating

Damage-causing part: Intake rocker arm 78936060000

Action code: G.12.173.36

Parts: Intake rocker arm 78936060000

Work time: T3900236970 > 55 min. = incl. setup time and test ride

If inventory parts are affected: Yes, parts delivered by September 10th 2012 must be returned to the spare parts center via an RMA.

 

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A few things to note when calling and trying to talk to KTM Canada about the issue.

#1.) Be as nice as you possibly can.  Obviously, you are very frustrated.  But you need to note that the person on the other end of the phone right off the bat doesn't have to offer you ANYTHING.  This is a "race" bike.  There is no warranty.  You are not the original owner of the machine.  It doesn't matter how many hours are on it.  It was already replaced once under a recall before you owned it, so you are seeking what is technically called a "goodwill" parts replacement.  It doesn't matter if you are talking to KTM, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Beta, Zongshen, etc...  You are trying to sweet talk them into giving you something for free, or at least a discounted price.  Legally, there is nothing that KTM HAS to do in this situation.  If you go into a conversation with a bad attitude, expect it to go downhill fast and be told in short terms to pound sand.  Again, no matter how the conversation goes, be as absolutely polite as you possibly can.

I would at least go into the conversation with the start line of this: "I am _______, and I own a 2013 450 XC-F.  I understand that rockers were replaced under TB1301 for this machine of which mine was supposedly replaced in March of 2013, however I was wondering if there have been any reports of the replaced rockers having their DLC coating failing in the same manner?  I was doing a routine top end inspection on my XC-F and noticed that the DLC coating on my intake rocker is flaking off.  I am working with _________  (the KTM dealer) and am curious if there is anything that you know about a potential issue with the replaced rocker arms, and what could have been the cause of failure in my bike..."

Let them know that you understand the previous recall, that you are working with a specific dealer (and who that dealer is), and that you are also wanting to know if there are similar situations to yours.  This will put the person on the other end of the phone in the frame of mind that you are not a pissed off owner (even if you are), but that you are more in the worried camp and are WORKING with a dealer to find a resolution to the problem.  Both of those are key points.

#2.) If KTM does offer you "goodwill" and will send a new rocker out, note that they will most likely NOT send the rocker to you.  It will have to go to a dealer and the parts will in all likely hood have to be installed by the dealer (if this is done by the book).  The dealer will have to submit the bad rocker you currently have along with their work order # back to KTM Canada.  They will want the bad part.  So depending how this all goes, you may have to pay for labor to have it done unless you have something else worked out through the dealer.  If that is the case, it may be cheaper for you to just buy the rocker and put it in yourself.  That is obviously for you and the dealer to work out, after you know what KTM is willing (or not willing) to do.

#3.) If you know that the dealer has already called KTM, see if you can get who the rep was that they talked to, or if there is a number that relates to your case with KTM.  It is best if you are both talking to the same person, so that things aren't missed between multiple parties.  I am sure that KTM Canada is not that large of a place, but it still helps to be talking to the same person.

#4.) If the dealer you went to is really good, they will do what they can without you having to call or at the very least will call KTM, and if KTM at that point wants to do nothing, then give you the number of the person to call.  When I used to work for a dealer, we never instructed our customers to call the company service reps although many did BEFORE they even brought us their units.  The reason for this is that the customer is emotionally invested in their unit, and this usually works out badly when the discussion with the service rep on the phone doesn't go the way that they want.  Again, look back at note #1.

I was never the guy at the dealership that had to call for warranty work or goodwill replacement parts, I was the tech that had to do the work.  However, I can't tell you how many times the customers would be in the service managers office screaming at him when he had nothing to do with any of it.  Which in the end would make him hope that the rep on the other end of the phone he talked to later would tell him no just to spite the customer that was a total jerk to him (i.e. don't kill the messenger).  Go in with the best attitude possible, maintain that attitude at all times, and that will be your best chance at getting the situation resolved for least amount of cash layout from your wallet.

It sucks to have to be nice when you least want to be, but that is the only way that you may get towards the goal that you seek.

And whatever you do, don't tell them that their products are garbage and you are going to tell everyone how much they suck, send it out to everyone on the internet, etc...  Trust me, that is the number one way to get them to really be happy to NOT help you out with anything.  They hear that multiple times a day and are really over it.

Edited by eastreich
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Wow thanks for all the good advice ! I'll use your advice when I call KTM Canada and speak with them. I think your right that its best to be polite, they don't HAVE to do anything.

I think your right that I'd have to pay the dealer labor to install the part if KTM warranties it, but that'd be only about an hour of labor I think.

 

The service manager of the dealership emailed me back today and said he would contact KTM today.

 

If KTM won't help me out, I'm worried that I'll have to spend around $400 CAD to replace the rocker and it will be bad again in another 70 hours.

Edited by CR2504life

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this seems like a lot of work and a lot of down time for a pretty simple repair.

If it were me I'd try to source the part as cheap as possible then spend the hour or so doing the work myself.

Chalk it up to bike maintenance. You were planning to check the valve clearances anyway right????

Be aware the rocker shaft has an oil supply jet which on our 15.5 450SXF is directed down at the cam when installed correctly.

Our bike came from the factory with the jet facing up. which resulted in a cam and rocker failure for us.

 

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8 minutes ago, nesc103y said:

this seems like a lot of work and a lot of down time for a pretty simple repair.

If it were me I'd try to source the part as cheap as possible then spend the hour or so doing the work myself.

Chalk it up to bike maintenance. You were planning to check the valve clearances anyway right????

 

Yeah I was checking/adjusting the valves when I discovered this.

I don't think I would be able to find a cheaper alternate source for this part other than the dealer, in Canada I basically have to get OEM parts from the dealer............ There are no online retailers of OEM parts in Canada, RockymountainATVMC doesn't ship OEM parts to Canada, and I don't want a used part. Do you have some suggestions on how to get a deal ?

It's winter so I'm not riding much now, although I do plan on going for a ride soon. Will probably the last ride before this is dealt with. The coating on the surface contacting the cam lobe is still intact and just starting to wear thin. This is the most important surface because it protects the cam lobe from wear.

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There is always having someone you know that is heading down south and coming back up pick it from someone they know down here in the States, or vice versa.  I obviously don't know where you are in BC, so it may not be that easy.

Not that I would know anything about those kind of shenanigans...  Some family friends of my parents are down visiting from Calgary this weekend, and I would put money on it that there is a box from Rockymtn at their house that will be going in the back of the 350Z for the return trip to Alberta.

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22 minutes ago, CR2504life said:

Yeah I was checking/adjusting the valves when I discovered this.

I don't think I would be able to find a cheaper alternate source for this part other than the dealer, in Canada I basically have to get OEM parts from the dealer............ There are no online retailers of OEM parts in Canada, RockymountainATVMC doesn't ship OEM parts to Canada, and I don't want a used part. Do you have some suggestions on how to get a deal ?

It's winter so I'm not riding much now, although I do plan on going for a ride soon. Will probably the last ride before this is dealt with. The coating on the surface contacting the cam lobe is still intact and just starting to wear thin. This is the most important surface because it protects the cam lobe from wear.

Why is it so difficult getting parts from the US to Canada?

Why won't the on line retailers ship there?

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21 minutes ago, nesc103y said:

Why is it so difficult getting parts from the US to Canada?

Why won't the on line retailers ship there?

Well its some sort of NAFTA import/export thing I'm guessing, its complicated probably. The Canadian dollar is not worth much now anyhow.

 

I just got the price from the dealer, its $322 CAD with a 3 week lead time.

Edited by CR2504life

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42 minutes ago, eastreich said:

There is always having someone you know that is heading down south and coming back up pick it from someone they know down here in the States, or vice versa.  I obviously don't know where you are in BC, so it may not be that easy.

Not that I would know anything about those kind of shenanigans...  Some family friends of my parents are down visiting from Calgary this weekend, and I would put money on it that there is a box from Rockymtn at their house that will be going in the back of the 350Z for the return trip to Alberta.

 I'm actually going down south in a couple weeks for my next ride (Juniper Forest, WA), so I can check part prices there. But the Canadian dollar isn't worth much right now.

The part is $322 CAD here, ouch !

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Guess what ?!?!?!!?     KTM will provide me with the replacement part !

It sounds like I can install it myself too, the dealer just told me to bring my old rocker arm to exchange for the new one when it arrives.

Thank you KTM, and thanks to the service department at the dealer !

 

  • Like 2

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Guess what ?!?!?!!?     KTM will provide me with the replacement part !
It sounds like I can install it myself too, the dealer just told me to bring my old rocker arm to exchange for the new one when it arrives.
Thank you KTM, and thanks to the service department at the dealer !
 

Wow, that's an unexpected and awesome outcome!

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19 minutes ago, HeavyRotation said:


Wow, that's an unexpected and awesome outcome!

Yeah totally, I was surprised to hear it, and happy. That saves me hundreds of dollars. I'll be inspecting the coating of the new rocker regularly. I'll pull it out every 30 hours for inspection when I do the valve check, even if the valves don't need adjustment.

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56 minutes ago, widebear said:

Since this is good news. Who is your dealer?

Action Motorcycles, since the bike was purchased there it probably increased their willingness to help (I'm the second owner though). Technically I could've attempted this process myself directly with KTM Canada, but maybe I had better luck with the dealer contacting KTM on my behalf.

The service manager there was very nice and willing to help, I wouldn't expect this treatment from the other dealership in Victoria.

It will take a week for the part to arrive, and I'll update you guys then.

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