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Bel-Ray H1-R ....what ratio for RM250?

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Picked up an 04' RM250. Previous owner said he always ran Bel-Ray H1-R oil with 91 octane fuel at a 50:1 ratio.......that sounds a little "lean" as far as the oil content goes. I've always ran around 40:1 with my 2-strokes.  Is the 100% synthetic H1-R ok to run at 50:1?  I'm not going to be racing...just woods/trail riding.

Also, are there other good oils out there that might be better for what I'm using the bike for?

Thanks

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I go with 32:1 and jetted accordingly,I ride trail and woods fairly aggressive. but 40:1 may be good for you

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Manual recommends 32:1 I go with that because I know it will ensure the engine getting the proper amount of lubrication and also having less wear and in turn lasting longer.

I'm always skeptical when going with less oil. Although these newer synthetic oils offer a bit more protection against wear. 

I think with bel-ray hr1 or any of these newer synthetics you can get away with 40:1 but I definitely wouldn't go 50:1 Less oil equals less protection no matter how you slice it.

I also read a lenghty article here on TT that someone posted about 2 stroke oils and ratios. It was written years ago, but someone did a very scientific research with dyno data to prove the results. The end result being that a 2 stroke motor makes the most hp at 32:1 and offers the best protection. They tried all ratios from 20:1 to I think maybe around 60:1 and when they ran the dyno with the lesser oil ratio the bike made the least hp and caused damage. Common sense it seems.

But don't tell that to someone who runs 50:1 or more because they will ensure you that the less oil you run in your 2 stroke the cooler you are. :ride:

Edited by ou812?

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I found the link. It's in pdf format. It's a long read. But you can get the point they make in the first paragraph and skip to the actual dyno results. I also misquoted it. The bike made the most hp with Suzuki's recommended at the time 20:1 ratio. So end result is the dyno doesn't lie and that what the manufacturer recommends you do is what you should do. They made the bike and they know where it performs best. But again some wiseguy is always going to claim their way is better and to disregard what the manufacturer of the actual bike says. Long story short more oil is more hp and more protection. Now someone please tell me this article is from the late 70's and is irrelevant today. :)

Here  http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

Edited by ou812?
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28 minutes ago, ou812? said:

I found the link. It's in pdf format. It's a long read. But you can get the point they make in the first paragraph and skip to the actual dyno results. 

Here  http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

They made most power at 16:1. Woods riding doesn't need max power. 50:1 is fine.

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9 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

They made most power at 16:1. Woods riding doesn't need max power. 50:1 is fine.

No. Read it again. It made most hp at 20:1

I  read it again. My bad. It made most power at actually 15:1

Edited by ou812?
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It's a long read. But if you take the time to read it the end result shows what I said. More oil equals more horsepower and better protection. Less oil equals less hp and less protection.

So if you like real dyno results and facts then read the article. 

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As long as it's jetted properly and you get after it every now and then, 32:1 will work fine in the woods.

Changing the mixture ratio has the opposite effect on the air/fuel ratio, ei more oil = leaner air/fuel.

Just keep that in mind before making any drastic changes in oil or ratio.

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This is the final narrative of the long article if you don't like to read.

If Suzuki tells you to run 32:1 in your RM then that's what you should do in order for it to perform best in all conditions - woods or race.

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2 hours ago, ou812? said:

It's a long read. But if you take the time to read it the end result shows what I said. More oil equals more horsepower and better protection. Less oil equals less hp and less protection.

So if you like real dyno results and facts then read the article. 

If more oil is better for hp and protection then why do you risk running so little oil at 32:1? ;)

Edited by shrubitup
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50 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

If more oil is better for hp and protection then why do you risk running so little oil at 32:1? ;)

I knew the wiseguys would come out.

In my experience I run what the manufacturer says 32:1

At the end of the day I guess it's pointless to argue. Some guys are going to run what they like and I'm going to run what Suzuki tells me to run in a bike that they built.

Edited by ou812?

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I found a more up to date well written article by an EXPERT in the field. This should end the debate. Also it is much shorter than the previous article, easier to read and get's to the final point quicker. So for anyone who is wondering what oil ratio to run in their 2 stroke, this article sums it up perfectly!

http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/tech/two-stroke-gasoil-ratios-20502.html

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That article brings up a good point toward the end. Oil ratios are very dependent upon rpm. Maxima has some good info on the topic on their website, where they measure oil migration times. Late model KX's had different ratios by engine size. 125's got 32:1, 250's got 40:1. This is because those engines live at different rpm levels. Yamaha and Suzuki stuck to 32:1 for all sizes for whatever reason. The 05 KTM 250-300 manual recommends anything from 40:1-60:1 for non-MX models. 

If the manual calls for 32:1, then that is completely reasonable. 40:1 on a MX track or 50:1 in the woods are also reasonable. 50:1 is not the best choice for land speed record testing on fire roads. 

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Also what the article is saying is that if you ride your 250 like your grandma rides, then mix it at her ratio 50:1 

But if you get on the throttle (and I know when I go "woods" riding that there are never any open fields or areas when I can open it up) that it's better to have your ratio mixed at 32:1 or 40:1

And if you race (god forbid) it might be wise to mix even richer at say 28:1

Now if someone has something contrary to say about an experts article and opinion, then you are a special kind of stupid.

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What clappedoutkx said. Ou812?, earlier you were saying 15, 16, 18, 20 then 32 to 1 but never 40 or 50 to 1. Glad you now see that 40 or 50 to 1 are suitable for non racing use of a 250. the maxima website has been saying this for at least 10 years but people still insist on 32 to 1 regardless of how and where the bike will be used. 

I woods ride my 125 and agree that it benefits from 32 to 1 because i rev it far more than I ever did my 250s.

Edited by shrubitup

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you know the old saying , right tools for the right job

all four japanese manufacturers were and still are heavily into MX , so their manual reflects that 

yahokawsuki assume there bikes will only be used revving flat out hard on the throttle for 10-20 min 

high revs  = more oil 

low revs = less oil needed because it stays in the engine longer

( read clappedoutkx quote about maxima article on oil migration )

shrubitup also touched on the higher revs / smaller bore engine requiring more oil then it's bigger brothers in the same conditions

most guys spend a lot of time under 1/2 throttle weaving in and out of trees and down and out of dry river beds etc

my manual recommends 32:1 as does all the japanese manufactures for at lest the last 20 years . is it correct ....maybe for the hardcore MX racer 

fwiw i run 40-45:1 with good full synthetic oil and my bike survived 4 years ( ~ 80 hrs ) and i had no idea of the previous condition of the engine

just recently did full rebuild and not evidence of oil starvation or seizing due to less oil 

oh and by the way bel ray h1r isn't the best choose of oil for woods or single track , the flash point is high and the bike will be really smokey

 

Edited by kxrob
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i use castrol power rs ( now called castrol power tts ( and you will see why from the list below 

Amsoil Interceptor - 183 F

Amsoil Dominator- 194 F

Amsoil Saber Pro - 237 F

Maxima Formula K2 - 240 F

Maxima Super M - 280 F

Maxima Super M Injector - 220 F

Maxima Castor 927 - 420 F

Maxima Bio 2T - 180 F

Motul 710 - 190 F

Motul 800 - 485 F

Motul Bio 2T - 255 F

Motorex Cross Power 2T - 230 F

Lucas Semi Synthetic - 182 F

Bel Ray H1R - 435 F

Bel Ray MC1 - 208 F

Bel Ray Si7 - 194 F

Castrol Power RS- 163 F

Castrol 2T - 194 F

Red Line Two-Stroke Racing Oil - 221 °F

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What I read in the article is that 32:1 or 40:1 is best for average rider and that 28:1 is best for mx racer. I would never run 50:1 in a bike 

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