When to stop giving advice?

[Hans Schmid]

As a disclaimer, I am NOT an expert. I am a Expert Class rider, with a ton of seat time and a good grasp of bike maintenance/setup over various number of motorcycles over the years. I have 31yrs of riding experience under my belt and 20yrs of actual racing experience.

Here's my issue... 

I ride with a ton of different people, from those of little skill, to those of pros. Some rave some don't. Somewhere in the middle, very few of them actually take the time to work on bike setup. They'll eat right, train hard both on the bike and in the gym and run decent mechanical sound machines. 

As well go for a ride together they'll ask me questions on what tires to run, jetting specs, suspension setup, how to ride a certain section etc etc. The frustration comes from they seem to take advice more so from someone who is less experienced, generally rides a more specific style of terrain, doesn't really know mechanical skills, knows little about actually setting something up and for the most part someone who just adds bolt ons for no other reason then it looks cool. 

Them: "What tire should I run for around here in Kamloops?“

Me:" Well I really like a Michelin SC5 in soft, seems to be good all around."

Them: Well so-and-so (who lives 300 miles away and doesn't ride anything faster then 2nd gear) said I should be running a Trials Tire with a Mousse."

Me: "Ok, well I think your going to struggle with the tire when the speeds are above 3rd gear"

This is not specific to one person, but just a general overview. Come the next ride and they literally did a complete 180° regarding setup advice and they still cant make that hill, the bike is still doesn't turn/handle well, still runs like crap etc etc. Then the next week its another massive change and much the same results.

Out of most guys I ride with only 2 take my opinion at half, but they don't go all out wild and you can also see the improvements they have made both by how the bike handles or maybe they ride better.

Do you have to do everything I suggested, no. But why ask for any advice if you're not even going to try anything? I'm starting to not enjoy riding with these people, even reducing any communication because its getting annoying as hell when I see texts asking similar questions.

I told one guy I refuse to answer his questions anymore and he was upset. But he literally did the EXACT opposite of what I suggested. I do like these guys but FFS it's getting on my nerves...

So what's a guy to do? 

[EmpireofDerp]

As a disclaimer, I am NOT an expert. I am a Expert Class rider, with a ton of seat time and a good grasp of bike maintenance/setup over various number of motorcycles over the years. I have 31yrs of riding experience under my belt and 20yrs of actual racing experience.
Here's my issue... 
I ride with a ton of different people, from those of little skill, to those of pros. Some rave some don't. Somewhere in the middle, very few of them actually take the time to work on bike setup. They'll eat right, train hard both on the bike and in the gym and run decent mechanical sound machines. 
As well go for a ride together they'll ask me questions on what tires to run, jetting specs, suspension setup, how to ride a certain section etc etc. The frustration comes from they seem to take advice more so from someone who is less experienced, generally rides a more specific style of terrain, doesn't really know mechanical skills, knows little about actually setting something up and for the most part someone who just adds bolt ons for no other reason then it looks cool. 
Them: "What tire should I run for around here in Kamloops?“
Me:" Well I really like a Michelin SC5 in soft, seems to be good all around."
Them: Well so-and-so (who lives 300 miles away and doesn't ride anything faster then 2nd gear) said I should be running a Trials Tire with a Mousse."
Me: "Ok, well I think your going to struggle with the tire when the speeds are above 3rd gear"
This is not specific to one person, but just a general overview. Come the next ride and they literally did a complete 180° regarding setup advice and they still cant make that hill, the bike is still doesn't turn/handle well, still runs like crap etc etc. Then the next week its another massive change and much the same results.
Out of most guys I ride with only 2 take my opinion at half, but they don't go all out wild and you can also see the improvements they have made both by how the bike handles or maybe they ride better.
Do you have to do everything I suggested, no. But why ask for any advice if you're not even going to try anything? I'm starting to not enjoy riding with these people, even reducing any communication because its getting annoying as hell when I see texts asking similar questions.
I told one guy I refuse to answer his questions anymore and he was upset. But he literally did the EXACT opposite of what I suggested. I do like these guys but FFS it's getting on my nerves...
So what's a guy to do? 

Yeah, I'm in the position of being smarter than everyone as well. [emoji6] I feel your pain. I don't volunteer advice at all, but when someone asks me a question I invariably reply with stream of consciousness free association. If they do it back and are quick and witty, then I'll give them actual advice. If they don't get it, I just laugh and let them think I'm crazy.

[jcross312]

Idk man, sounds like it's really starting to effect you though. Maybe you should talk to a mental health expert. ..or just drink a beer and say f those guys.

[EmpireofDerp]

Then drink a second beer.

[GoneDirtBikeN]

OK. So sounds like one issue - they don't take your advice well or at all.

Questions: These are people you like riding with? You get along? You can rag on each other and not get upset? If you get hurt you know you're going to be able to count on them (they will see that you bike makes it home safely). If one of them gets hurt you're friends enough to want to help rather than the guy is so annoying you really want to run him over?

If you can look on that one issue a different way - "they are some dumb for not listening" or such - and still enjoy riding with them, then they are keepers.

I wish I had a buddy to ride with who was good with suspension! The friend I ride with thought setting his rebound to soft was "slowing it down". I had to actually show him in writing (yes, I had a printed copy in my car).

Edited March 25, 2017 by GoneDirtBikeN

[EmpireofDerp]

OK. So sounds like one issue - they don't take your advice well or at all.
Questions: These are people you like riding with? You get along? You can rag on each other and not get upset? If you get hurt you know you're going to be able to count on them. If one of them gets hurt you're friends enough to want to help rather than the guy is so annoying you really want to run him over?
If you can look on that one issue a different way - "they are some dumb for not listening" or such - and still enjoy riding with them, then they are keepers.
I wish I had a buddy to ride with who was good with suspension! The friend I ride with thought setting his rebound to soft was "slowing it down". I had to actually show him in writing (yes, I had a printed copy in my car).

Nonono, the S on the fork means "slow".

[GoneDirtBikeN]

4 minutes ago, HeavyRotation said:

Then drink a second beer.

So you're saying stop at two?

[EmpireofDerp]

So you're saying stop at two?

Oh, hell naw!

[GoneDirtBikeN]

Just now, HeavyRotation said:

Nonono, the S on the fork means "slow".

No, that's where you get to laugh your arse off as they pogo away from landings.

A couple months later, another guy, same thing.

[XRalways]

You give your advice, they dont take it and still cant make it up the hill? Whats a guy to do. Shrug and wave.

A lot of the time, in any situation, people are going to choose the easy way out. Or, the "popular" way. So in your example, the guy wanted the mousse with the trials tire because its "all the rage".

You have to know that, when you give advice, not everyone is going to take it.

I get the frustration, especially if someone is asking the same question over and over, going with someone elses opinion, then coming back to you with a failed attempt and yet asking more advice for the same problem.

If you like riding with them, then just ride with them. If they ask for advice, give a short and sweet answer, OR do what I do and go for the smart ass answer.

"What kind of tire in ________ situation should I use"

Answer - a black one.

[PNW Enduro]

Hey what kind of pre-mix do you think I should run? ? 

Oh I also want the best, most comfortable boots but not over $150... they need to be 100% waterproof and last 10 years too. 

[hawaiidirtrider]

1 hour ago, Monk said:

As a disclaimer, I am NOT an expert. I am a Expert Class rider, with a ton of seat time and a good grasp of bike maintenance/setup over various number of motorcycles over the years. I have 31yrs of riding experience under my belt and 20yrs of actual racing experience.

Here's my issue... 

I ride with a ton of different people, from those of little skill, to those of pros. Some rave some don't. Somewhere in the middle, very few of them actually take the time to work on bike setup. They'll eat right, train hard both on the bike and in the gym and run decent mechanical sound machines. 

As well go for a ride together they'll ask me questions on what tires to run, jetting specs, suspension setup, how to ride a certain section etc etc. The frustration comes from they seem to take advice more so from someone who is less experienced, generally rides a more specific style of terrain, doesn't really know mechanical skills, knows little about actually setting something up and for the most part someone who just adds bolt ons for no other reason then it looks cool. 

Them: "What tire should I run for around here in Kamloops?“

Me:" Well I really like a Michelin SC5 in soft, seems to be good all around."

Them: Well so-and-so (who lives 300 miles away and doesn't ride anything faster then 2nd gear) said I should be running a Trials Tire with a Mousse."

Me: "Ok, well I think your going to struggle with the tire when the speeds are above 3rd gear"

This is not specific to one person, but just a general overview. Come the next ride and they literally did a complete 180° regarding setup advice and they still cant make that hill, the bike is still doesn't turn/handle well, still runs like crap etc etc. Then the next week its another massive change and much the same results.

Out of most guys I ride with only 2 take my opinion at half, but they don't go all out wild and you can also see the improvements they have made both by how the bike handles or maybe they ride better.

Do you have to do everything I suggested, no. But why ask for any advice if you're not even going to try anything? I'm starting to not enjoy riding with these people, even reducing any communication because its getting annoying as hell when I see texts asking similar questions.

I told one guy I refuse to answer his questions anymore and he was upset. But he literally did the EXACT opposite of what I suggested. I do like these guys but FFS it's getting on my nerves...

So what's a guy to do? 

What you are saying is so fricken common and super annoying.. but it comes down to riding with different groups in my case.. just don't ride with them all the time .. The other thing is it's hard but just let it go.. just go.... ok so you picked another choice.. whatever...It's easier said than done for sure.. All of us have different preferences anyway.. even if the general consensus is usually better and clearer with all the vet guys that have been riding for years.. there still are exceptions. For me I try to be honest but some just don't appreciate honesty. I try to be tactful.. and I even look at the person and do a quick assessment and figure if it's worth it to share good knowledge.. because lots of times guys have no clue and they just have to suffer to come to the same conclusion you did...plus they'll just dismiss it anyway..So what.... It's the difference between experience and not being experienced lots of times.. so quietly and secretly pat yourself on the inside ..on the back that you know the difference..just appreciate that you know that the tire that the newby is using is a piece of shit and you'd never run that tire pressure ever in your life.  They have to suffer and just believe what anyone says online.. which may be ok info or &%$#@!ing the stupidest thing ever..  I didn't even read any responses past your original post.. guess I should look now..but right off the bat I know that same sentiment you have expressed.. let the poison out. I've spoken to some vet rider friends draining the frustration with some beginner rider friends. The funny part is lots of times these guys just don't last riding long..so all the frustration is for what?  ... well a few stick it out and realize what you mean..even if they don't necessarily follow your info shared.. they still might get it and appreciate it.

 

As far as the trials tire?.. just say "Go ahead and try it and tell me how it works... trying it is the best way to find out"...and that's true really..good or bad. ..I guess save your honest information for those who are more in the know.. but let them find out the harder way when they have their trials tire up for sale cheap with 2 rides.. or who knows.. maybe they wont get it into 3rd gear.

Edited March 25, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[CR250_182]

I ride with a ton of different people, from those of little skill, to those of pros. Some rave some don't. Somewhere in the middle, very few of them actually take the time to work on bike setup. They'll eat right, train hard both on the bike and in the gym and run decent mechanical sound machines. 
As well go for a ride together they'll ask me questions on what tires to run, jetting specs, suspension setup, how to ride a certain section etc etc. The frustration comes from they seem to take advice more so from someone who is less experienced, generally rides a more specific style of terrain, doesn't really know mechanical skills, knows little about actually setting something up and for the most part someone who just adds bolt ons for no other reason then it looks cool. 
Them: "What tire should I run for around here in Kamloops?“
Me:" Well I really like a Michelin SC5 in soft, seems to be good all around."
Them: Well so-and-so (who lives 300 miles away and doesn't ride anything faster then 2nd gear) said I should be running a Trials Tire with a Mousse."
Me: "Ok, well I think your going to struggle with the tire when the speeds are above 3rd gear"
This is not specific to one person, but just a general overview. Come the next ride and they literally did a complete 180° regarding setup advice and they still cant make that hill, the bike is still doesn't turn/handle well, still runs like crap etc etc. Then the next week its another massive change and much the same results.
Out of most guys I ride with only 2 take my opinion at half, but they don't go all out wild and you can also see the improvements they have made both by how the bike handles or maybe they ride better.
Do you have to do everything I suggested, no. But why ask for any advice if you're not even going to try anything? I'm starting to not enjoy riding with these people, even reducing any communication because its getting annoying as hell when I see texts asking similar questions.
I told one guy I refuse to answer his questions anymore and he was upset. But he literally did the EXACT opposite of what I suggested. I do like these guys but FFS it's getting on my nerves...
So what's a guy to do? 

I think most of the time people just what to hear what they want to hear, and they want you to agree with them. They already have their mind set, just for some reason they want you to confirm it.

I work in a motorcycle shop, and my boss has been wrenching for over 30 years, very knowledgeable. People come in and ask what he thinks on something, he'll give his answer, then they'll say "well I read online", or "my buddy said" or they'll even ask me, who obviously doesn't even have a fraction of the knowledge my boss does.
He knows most people are going to for some reason side with Joe Schmo off an internet forum, not knowing what their experience is. He'll still tell them what he thinks, but he knows alot of people will try to argue it.

[William1]

A lot of people do not actually want advice. They want you to tell them what they want to hear. Confirm what they think the do (or do not in reality) know. So when asked, I offer up what I know that works for me and the advice from people I respect. Then off I go, with little care if the person who come to me listened. Human nature. All I care about is that my wife thinks I am smooth.

[Wild Alaskan]

I feel your pain! last time I told somebody to run a trials tire with a mousse they came back with a michelin SC5!! 

[The Inquisitor]

And IMO this is some what a reflection on how we live today with access to the internet etc and all the information (right or wrong) that is available.

For example if I make a post here asking for advice, I'm going to take everything I read about the advice with an open mind.

Then if I actually go personally to someone asking for their advice its cus I've learned to respect what that person has to say but will still be open minded about it but will value that the person took the time to offer it.

I'm the first to admit that I tend to post long winded posts here with my advice (either right or wrong) or my opinions (which are always right) and I really could care less if anyone really reads or follows them but if someone personally asks for my advice and I take the time to offer it and they don't care, then I don't care either and just ignore them in the future.

Thank you @Monkand I think I'll order up a Michelin SC5 soft for my next Kamloops trip ? but I THINK I'm finally going to put a 18" rim on my 250R so what size and PSI do you recommend (somewhat joking)?

Edited March 25, 2017 by filterx

[Jrs Turn]

[The Italian Stallion]

Its disguised as asking for your advice,those types are not asking for your advise, those types know you are a knowledgeable guy and are trying to prove you are wrong for their own ego..and you get dick from the whole exchange..Don't educate them,keep them stupid 

[Hans Schmid]

2 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

What you are saying is so fricken common and super annoying.. but it comes down to riding with different groups in my case.. just don't ride with them all the time .. The other thing is it's hard but just let it go.. just go.... ok so you picked another choice.. whatever...It's easier said than done for sure.. All of us have different preferences anyway.. even if the general consensus is usually better and clearer with all the vet guys that have been riding for years.. there still are exceptions. For me I try to be honest but some just don't appreciate honesty. I try to be tactful.. and I even look at the person and do a quick assessment and figure if it's worth it to share good knowledge.. because lots of times guys have no clue and they just have to suffer to come to the same conclusion you did...plus they'll just dismiss it anyway..So what.... It's the difference between experience and not being experienced lots of times.. so quietly and secretly pat yourself on the inside ..on the back that you know the difference..just appreciate that you know that the tire that the newby is using is a piece of shit and you'd never run that tire pressure ever in your life.  They have to suffer and just believe what anyone says online.. which may be ok info or &%$#@!ing the stupidest thing ever..  I didn't even read any responses past your original post.. guess I should look now..but right off the bat I know that same sentiment you have expressed.. let the poison out. I've spoken to some vet rider friends draining the frustration with some beginner rider friends. The funny part is lots of times these guys just don't last riding long..so all the frustration is for what?  ... well a few stick it out and realize what you mean..even if they don't necessarily follow your info shared.. they still might get it and appreciate it.

 

As far as the trials tire?.. just say "Go ahead and try it and tell me how it works... trying it is the best way to find out"...and that's true really..good or bad. ..I guess save your honest information for those who are more in the know.. but let them find out the harder way when they have their trials tire up for sale cheap with 2 rides.. or who knows.. maybe they wont get it into 3rd gear.

Maybe that's the key, just figure out who you're giving advice too...

Like I mentioned, 2 of my buddies have no issue with what I say, they ask about a specific setup regarding their Yamaha or improving their braking point coming into a corner and they take it or take half of it...or none of it but at least they don't do the polar opposite...

Also, most of these guys aren't really my friends more then my riding buddies. I don't associate with them outside of riding short of the occasional after ride beer. 

[ossagp]

2 hours ago, jcross312 said:

Idk man, sounds like it's really starting to effect you though. Maybe you should talk to a mental health expert. ..or just drink a beer and say f those guys.

And people ask me why I love the south.