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STIC metering block review

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Ok so I guess it's time to lay it out for everyone and anyone who's considering purchasing one of these.

First claim - increased power, well I can assure everyone that this is a fact as it's very (seat of the pants dyno) noticeable throughout.

Second - ease of jetting with wider range per setting. Well I can't say that it helps with the "range" tuning as it's been to cold still to get up in the higher single track but I can tell you that getting your jetting set is absolutely NO EASIER than stock. If anything a little harder now as this mod requires different jetting all together and its still a massive PITA. Currently I'm still unable to get the bike to idle properly or start with choke on and not scream to the moon. Those 2 behaviors are unacceptable IMO and well just won't work, this is a challenge that's going to drive me to madness sooner than later. 

Third claim - increased mileage per tank, well this one is a bit tricky as on my test ride unfortunately the batteries in my GPS were dead so I could not clock actual miles but I've done the loop many times and have a pretty good idea. That being said, I don't think it helped much if any so on that claim I say "meh".

Now I should also add that prior to buying this I also had the RB Design head mod done as well as the slide mod, both of which were also supposed to help with all of those things and to that I say bull shit, complete waste of money. Folks who believe otherwise are just fooling themselves, fortunately it's not that expensive so not much of a loss there. My concern with it now is that it could be exacerbating my other jetting issues with the STIC block but there is no way to know.

Technically my bike a (2017) 250X should be a screaming beast of a bike but it is far from it, in fact with all the effort and money I've put in to it I'm really quite disappointed. This is going to turn into a very costly mistake I'm afraid but I'll put a few more hours on it and try and work out the kinks if it's possible. If I can't get it where I want it soon I'll send it down the road to another Yamaha 2t junke and they will get a bike with a lot of money dumped into it at a serious cost reduction from what I've invested.

That said I still really want this bike to work out but I've about lost all the patience I have on getting it to work right..

One more thing I should state, Keith has been really good about trying to help me sort this out but unfortunately he does not know what needs to be done to make it run right. This however happens to be another concern as I'd expect that the folks who designed this product would know what works but they don't seem to.

Current setting;

elevation 4300

Needle - N3EW #2 (also tried the NECJ with diff main)

Main - 185

Pilot - 50 (tried 48,45,42) same results with each

AS - 1.5 out (I've had this sucker all over the place trying to find the right spot)

Idle screw is an area where I'm a bit confused as well. Right now I'm turned almost all the way in and that's just so that it will idle at all but I suspect it's also why it screams on startup when it's cold and on choke.

 

 

Edited by Wrfrk
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Ok so I guess it's time to lay it out for everyone and anyone who's considering purchasing one of these. First claim - increased power, well I can assure everyone that this is a fact as it's very (seat of the pants dyno) noticeable throughout. Second - ease of jetting with wider range per setting. Well I can't say that it helps with the "range" tuning as it's been to cold still to get up in the higher single track but I can tell you that getting your jetting set is absolutely NO EASIER than stock. If anything a little harder now as this mod requires different jetting all together and its still a massive PITA. Currently I'm still unable to get the bike to idle properly or start with choke on and not scream to the moon. Those 2 behaviors are unacceptable IMO and well just won't work, this is a challenge that's going to drive me to madness sooner than later.  Third claim - increased mileage per tank, well this one is a bit tricky as on my test ride unfortunately the batteries in my GPS were dead so I could not clock actual miles but I've done the loop many times and have a pretty good idea. That being said, I don't think it helped much if any so on that claim I say "meh". Now I should also add that prior to buying this I also had the RB Design head mod done as well as the slide mod, both of which were also supposed to help with all of those things and to that I say bull shit, complete waste of money. Folks who believe otherwise are just fooling themselves, fortunately it's not that expensive so not much of a loss there. My concern with it now is that it could be exacerbating my other jetting issues with the STIC block but there is no way to know.

Technically my bike a (2017) 250X should be a screaming beast of a bike but it is far from it, in fact with all the effort and money I've put in to it I'm really quite disappointed. This is going to turn into a very costly mistake I'm afraid but I'll put a few more hours on it and try and work out the kinks if it's possible. If I can't get it where I want it soon I'll send it down the road to another Yamaha 2t junke and they will get a bike with a lot of money dumped into it at a serious cost reduction from what I've invested.

That said I still really want this bike to work out but I've about lost all the patience I have on getting it to work right..

One more thing I should state, Keith has been really good about trying to help me sort this out but unfortunately he does not know what needs to be done to make it run right. This however happens to be another concern as I'd expect that the folks who designed this product would know what works but they don't seem to.

Current setting;

elevation 4300

Needle - N3EW #2 (also tried the NECJ with diff main)

Main - 185

Pilot - 50 (tried 48,45,42) same results with each

AS - 1.5 out (I've had this sucker all over the place trying to find the right spot)

Idle screw is an area where I'm a bit confused as well. Right now I'm turned almost all the way in and that's just so that it will idle at all but I suspect it's also why it screams on startup when it's cold and on choke.

 

 

I havn't heard from you in a week. I was curious as to how/if you solved the run away rpm on startup.The high rpm on startup is a problem that existed BEFORE the metering block was installed. It would be nice to state those things.I was also unaware of the RB head mod & slide mod. The head mod is no concern but the cut slide can most definitely a factor in things.I feel I've made a pretty good effort in reaching out to try & help you but it's hard to get results without getting your feedback (a return call or email). Also, the lack of detail in all of the things done to your bike make things difficult to diagnose. I can assure you I know how to get an engine to run corrcet.

At any rate, you need to resolve this run away rpm show at startup. This is NOT a STIC related issue as you stated the problem existed before the metering block install. Try & remember when the problem started. Do you remember doing anything or changing anything before the problem?

I understand trying to go at things in your own but I am only a phone call or email away. If you would like help with tracking down your problem, I will help.

As far as tuning the metering block. I don't believe anyone said it was "easier" to jet than a standard carburetor. It is the same process & each tuning point is the same in relation to a "standard" carburetor.

If the bike is running good on the standard carburetor setup, the swap to the metering block is easy. Simply increase the main 4-5 sizes & go.

If the bike is running poor on the standard setup or has a goofy problem with the standard carburetor. It will be there regardless of the metering block. A bad tune swapped to the metering block will still be a bad tune. A mechanical problem is still a mechanical problem.

Contact me if you are still interested in help.

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Unfortunately my job requires much of my time so not much left after that and family stuff... 

The web site for the product does describe as making jetting easier and all those other things I stated..

Yes you've been great so far about trying to help but we're getting no where :( and I don't recall stating that I had the high idle issue before this but it may have been...

What I do know is that I've now spent almost $500 on this carb/head and I'm no better off then I was all stock in fact maybe a little worse, just a little more power...... Not blaming the STIC meter for all my issues I'm just stating that I'm not seeing the results I was expecting vs buying the Lectron which I absolutely will not do at this point.

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No seat time with mine that I can make a good diagnosis either. Not haveing same issues as you and I do not have the head mod. I am at 1500' 184/50/1.75, and I had the hi rev at start up last time but figured it was the fuel left in carb. Bike is in back of shop as busniss and family come first. I am almost thinking my woman wants me to hang it all up when I retire. :(

Thanks for the input Wrkfrk, when I have some downtime I will piddle with mine. 

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To say that cutting a head for correct squish and adding volume back to the cylinder head is a waste of time or money is absolutely bogus...

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I would do a leak down test to check if there is an air leak causing a high/ hanging idle... I don't think it is abnormal for the bike to idle pretty high at first with the choke on though. Getting your 2 stroke to idle normally once it is warmed up can be a bit tricky, but it can be done. I think you will have a much easier time getting your jetting sorted if you stick with the Suzuki NECJ needle. I would start with these settings with the STIC if you are around sea level: Main 178 or 180/ Pilot 45/ Needle NECJ 3rd clip/ AS 1.5 out ... 

Turn your idle screw all the way in so that it idles a little high, and if it still wont idle at all, have someone hold the throttle slightly open to keep it idling while you adjust the AS. If you don't have someone to help you, you can adjust the throttle cable on top of the carb until it idles just a bit high (you need it to stay running on its own while you adjust your AS).. My suggestion on the AS is just a starting point, you'll need to turn it in and out to find where it idles the highest/ cleanest. If it is around 1 - 2 turns you're good to go with the 45 pilot. If it runs best at less than 1 turn out you'll need a larger pilot jet, and if it's at more than 2 turns out you will need a smaller pilot jet. Once you have found the correct pilot jet size and tuned the air screw to the fastest idle, you should be able to turn your idle screw out a bit to bring the idle back down to where you want it. If you had to adjust your throttle cable, you'll need to turn it back in so that the slide can fully close. Your bike should idle great after all this... Now that you've adjusted your air screw for the highest idle, you may need to ride the bike around and make slight adjustments to the AS until you have the throttle response you're looking for. 

It would still be a good idea to do a leak down test before trying any of this. You're just gonna keep chasing your tail if there is a leak. Just because the bike is new doesn't mean there can't be a leak somewhere. You can build your own tester for cheap, just search on here and you'll find a thread on how to build one. I hope you get the bike sorted man, it sucks that you're not having the great experience with your X that everyone else is. I hope you stick it out and get it running properly. I think the main reason most of us buy the STIC is for the power increase, so it's good to hear that you were at least able to notice that. I believe when the guys at STIC say that it helps with jetting, they mean that it is less affected by changes in temp/ elevation. If you had started off with a well jetted carb, it would have been as simple as throwing in a main jet that is 4 sizes larger. Since you were having jetting issues before the STIC, you're still going to have to get the issues sorted out after installing the metering block. However, once those issues are dealt with, you should notice that you can simply adjust the AS for changes in elevation/ temperature, whereas with the stock metering block you would need to rejet. 

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Maybe take out the STIC? We live in the same place. I haven't done the head or slide but I will tell you it rips. I use the Suzuki at clip 2, 168mj, and a 42 pilot. 1.75 turns. That is at 55 degrees. Ijust raced the Price USRA enduro today and the bike rips. It idles and get on pipe with ease. I have video to prove it.

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8 minutes ago, RMK800 said:

Maybe take out the STIC? We live in the same place. I haven't done the head or slide but I will tell you it rips. I use the Suzuki at clip 2, 168mj, and a 42 pilot. 1.75 turns. That is at 55 degrees. Ijust raced the Price USRA enduro today and the bike rips. It idles and get on pipe with ease. I have video to prove it.

according to how your bike is jetted his is way to rich everywhere with the Stic and the jetting he has 

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I know the stic requires a larger Jets, but I think your way high with all the jetting for where we live, but I don't have those same mods. I couldn't imagine the mileage your getting with that setup. I'm stock except for needle, and it runs better with the Suzuki.. Here is my plug with a chop test. I've been running this same jetting for 4 rides. Crud it could be a hair rich, but I'm leaving it. I did have a 45 pilot in there and on decel it was loading up on me, air screw wasn't cleaning it up. Put a 42 in there and it's clean on decel. Sounds better and hits faster. This is the plug that came with the 17. IMG_0043.PNG

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RMK... yea I've tried those jetting specs before I did STIC mod which require 5 steps higher than what OEM metering block uses. So that would put me around a 175 main with the Zuk needle and I've tried that with several different pilot sizes.

As for the leak down, well I'm not sure how to do that but I have checked for air leaks by having the bike running and spraying shots of brake cleaner at the reed block intake points and there were no changes in idle. Had there have been a leak it would have sucked in some of the brake cleaner and the RPMs would have gone up.

I just put the N3EW back in with the 185 main and 48 pilot as per what Keith has suggested I try now.. Need to wait for weather to clear up a bit and try this out..

I will say this is really making my 13 450 XC-F seem more and more like a rock star, glad I did not sell it.......

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I have a 2016 YZ250X and found a 45 pilot, stock needle dropped one clip and stock main is perfect for my conditions...about 500ft above sea level.
I'm guessing you'll need to lean it out a little for your altitude in warmer weather.
I find mine absolutely rips, no complaints on power.
I have found that on all my 2 stroke bikes over the years, when they sit for more than a week and I start them for the first time with the choke they will rev high. As soon as it starts I shake the bike and it will idle down right away.
I always thought maybe some gas evaporated from sitting and a little lean when it first fires?
Shaking it has always worked for me when starting it cold and high revs. Always idles down right away without touching the throttle...

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Just to clarify as I think there may be a little confusion this high rev thing only happens after the bike has sat for a long period of time, like at least 12 hrs and only when needing the choke otherwise it's fine. We all know however that starting a cold bike and reving it to the moon is very bad which is why I'm concerned as none of my other 2ts have ever exhibited this behavior.

 

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That's what I'm talking about too, after sitting for a long time.
Next time you start it cold, as soon as it fires give it a really good shake from side to side.
Always works for me, it will idle down right away and you don't have to touch the throttle.

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^^^That's weird but I'll give it a try just cause you got me curious now...... 

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Yah I'll be curious to hear if it works for you as well.
I've been doing it for years with the different bikes I've had.
Can't remember if someone told me or I stumbled across it.

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I usually lean the bike over with the gas off or drain the carb depending on how long it will be sitting. So I usually have fresh gas in my carb on start up. Although, I always try to shake the bike to stir up the mix in the tank and wait about 10 seconds after turning the gas on before kicking to allow the bowl to fill to the proper height and dilute what was left in carb.

Gas left to evaporate in a carb could cause an initial lean issue.

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My '02 does the same thing, so I don't think it is uncommon. If it sits over night, and I choke at the next start up, it will rev really high at first. I will just reach down and hold the choke at about half for a few seconds, then I can either turn the choke off, or click it up to full choke and it's fine. 

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I think I may have found some settings that work... First I should also state that I also adjusted my float one more time, I think I had it set to low and it might have been creating a lean condition so I raised it a touch to let more fuel flow in.

So today I tested with the N3EW in pos #2 / 185 Main and 48 / AS 1 pilot and it felt pretty good and idle stayed more consistent.

I then switched over to the NECJ Pos #2 / 180 M / 45 P / AS 1 and it feels even a little better and again it's idling now but I'm also hearing a small amount of banging which I understand is maybe pre-ignition?

The other small concern I have is the position of my idle screw, seems it's in pretty freaking far, pretty close to max maybe a couple turns left.

 

Carb Idle screw.JPG

Edited by Wrfrk

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How or why are you running the same size pilot with both the Suzuki and Yamaha needle? Where is airscrew position?

What kind of gas are you running? I have found I have to run at least 95 to get rid of pinging. I blend 1 gallon of 110 to 3 of 90 non ethanol. This is with 0.043" squish. I don't trust straight premium pump gas.

@KPRacing should be able to help out about the idle screw. He and I just had a conversation of the Keihin idle intermediate passage vs the STIC and the differences.

Edited by LumberjackLloyd

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