Head-on Collisions

[Zach Skogheim]

Hey guys, 

If anyone has been in a head-on collision with another rider or know of someone who has, please post! 

[wielywilly-g]

Why?

[twinstar king]

1 minute ago, wielywilly-g said:

Why?

Probably some ambulance chaser

 

[Zach Skogheim]

I am developing a product to prevent head-on collisions and would like to talk to someone who has experienced this.

[wielywilly-g]

There is no way to prevent dirt bike head-on crashes. Did you want to be in the road bike section?

 

[Zach Skogheim]

Yes sir, there is! Preventing head on collisions for any ORVs riding on two way trails.

[William1]

There is no way to do what you claim. No more than you can warn me that person is going to mug me at 10PM. There is no such thing as 'Minoirty Report'.

[Zach Skogheim]

4 hours ago, William1 said:

There is no way to do what you claim. No more than you can warn me that person is going to mug me at 10PM. There is no such thing as 'Minoirty Report'.

I encourage you to learn all about how to do it. 

[William1]

I did. Insufficient information. I am also very technically capable and your claims are impossible unless you have spotters.

[Zach Skogheim]

4 hours ago, William1 said:

I did. Insufficient information. I am also very technically capable and your claims are impossible unless you have spotters.

What is insufficient about it? An app tracks the location of the user and every other user on the trail and communicates to give real time alerts to the rider. That is how it works and that is very possible to do. If you don't believe it, I am happy to go into more detail about it through email. 

[William1]

4 hours ago, Zach Skogheim said:

What is insufficient about it? An app tracks the location of the user and every other user on the trail and communicates to give real time alerts to the rider. That is how it works and that is very possible to do. If you don't believe it, I am happy to go into more detail about it through email. 

Sure. PM me. Tell me how your system would know I was on a bike or walking and not a moose or a bird. The only way it could possibly work would be if I had a beacon you could pick up on and identify me and my location. The only way it could 'see' a fallen tree around a corner would be if another rider had 'fagged' it in the app as a hazard.

Similar systems already exist and have been around for a long time. For example, on road, there is 'WAZE'.

 

[Zach Skogheim]

1 minute ago, William1 said:

Sure. PM me. Tell me how your system would know I was on a bike or walking and not a moose or a bird. The only way it could possibly work would be if I had a beacon you could pick up on and identify me and my location. The only way it could 'see' a fallen tree around a corner would be if another rider had 'fagged' it in the app as a hazard.

Similar systems already exist and have been around for a long time. For example, on road, there is 'WAZE'.

 

Every person on the trail has to have the FREE app running in the background on their phone. That way, every person with our display will get alerted when a rider(not a bird or moose) is within a certain distance on the same trail, heading in their direction. Our app is very similar to WAZE. Yes, someone has to flag things like down trees manually(just like WAZE when it comes to cops, etc.), but that gives other riders the benefit of being alerted for a down tree. And it also allows the DNR to look at all the flags in the area and fix the problems. 

[grayracer513]

1 minute ago, Zach Skogheim said:

Every person on the trail has to have the FREE app running in the background on their phone.

Herein, the central operative flaw.

All it takes is one guy who leaves his phone on the tailgate, or who is young, and therefore indestructible, who is not interested enough.  And how do you propose my phone should be able to alert me to anything at all, since there's no way it can be heard while I'm riding, and even if I buy a pricey handlebar mount for it, who says my eyes will be on the phone and not the trail, or whatever else? 

Ain't no way.

[Zach Skogheim]

Just now, grayracer513 said:

Herein, the central operative flaw.

All it takes is one guy who leaves his phone on the tailgate, or who is young, and therefore indestructible, who is not interested enough.  And how do you propose my phone should be able to alert me to anything at all, since there's no way it can be heard while I'm riding, and even if I buy a pricey handlebar mount for it, who says my eyes will be on the phone and not the trail, or whatever else? 

Ain't no way.

You're right, there is no way of preventing someone not using the app, but something is better than nothing right? I would rather be alerted of the 9/10 riders I pass by on the trail, rather than not be alerted from any. And your phone can be safely stowed away in your bag or whatever. We have designed an attachable to display that goes on your goggles, that connects to your phone via bluetooth and isn't all that pricey. 

[grayracer513]

3 out of ten would be a surprising achievement.

[William1]

2 minutes ago, Zach Skogheim said:

You're right, there is no way of preventing someone not using the app, but something is better than nothing right? I would rather be alerted of the 9/10 riders I pass by on the trail, rather than not be alerted from any. And your phone can be safely stowed away in your bag or whatever. We have designed an attachable to display that goes on your goggles, that connects to your phone via bluetooth and isn't all that pricey. 

You would be alerted to 1 out of 10,000 riders, assuming you had cell service. Tell me, how does the fallen tree alert me before the first rider has hit it and been airlifted out?

Competent trail riders know to not blast around blind corners, to stay to the  right. Those people might think safety. The kid blasting on his pit bike, no helmet and half a sixer left in his back pack 'for hydration' is going to take you out.

[Zach Skogheim]

3 hours ago, William1 said:

You would be alerted to 1 out of 10,000 riders, assuming you had cell service. Tell me, how does the fallen tree alert me before the first rider has hit it and been airlifted out?

Inside of the component is an RF module that works with the GPS on your phone to give confirmation of a rider. We also have a secret sauce in the way the it works to give alerts that I don't want to disclose just yet. Let's just say geofencing, which requires very little cell phone service and it has the RF module as a backup. 

[William1]

4 minutes ago, Zach Skogheim said:

Inside of the trailtracker component is an RF module that works with the GPS on your phone to give confirmation of a rider. We also have a secret sauce in the way the app works to give alerts that I don't want to disclose just yet. Let's just say geofencing, which requires very little cell phone service and it has the RF module as a backup. 

Most woods do not have ANY cell service. Race teams use the GET system to report rider location, 'incidents' and that uses satellite service (just a few miles range, unobstructed).

You had better have a very strong RF signal (along with a HAM license and I'd not want to be close to a 10 watt antenna nor carry the battery power to run it) to work in the mountains to transmit new obstacle reports, assuming all the riders stop at each one and log it, instead of riding over it and continuing on their way. To make your system work as you describe, you'd need a series of drones to 'read' the trails and relay signals. Big money.

[Zach Skogheim]

3 hours ago, William1 said:

Most woods do not have ANY cell service. Race teams use the GET system to report rider location, 'incidents' and that uses satellite service (just a few miles range, unobstructed).

You had better have a very strong RF signal (along with a HAM license and I'd not want to be close to a 10 watt antenna nor carry the battery power to run it) to work in the mountains to transmit new obstacle reports, assuming all the riders stop at each one and log it, instead of riding over it and continuing on their way. To make your system work as you describe, you'd need a series of drones to 'read' the trails and relay signals. Big money.

The RF chip is very strong and is actually used in industrial places that travels through metal equipment. In places where there is no signal at all, the RF can still give the user a "I think someone is coming but not exactly sure" alert. The user can also use the app to look at the map before he goes on the trails to see how many people are out there/where those people are at that time. So you're right, when you don't have cell phone service nothing will be 100%, but something is better than nothing. And cell phone companies are traveling further and further towards 100% coverage. In places like Michigan, where I'm located, we do have cell phone service in most places on our trails, until you get further up north into the UP then it decreases. So is it 100% all the time in every situation? No, but I would rather have something rather than nothing. 

[William1]

Just now, Zach Skogheim said:

Our RF chip is very strong and is actually used in industrial places that travels through metal equipment. In places where there is no signal at all, the RF can still give the user a "I think someone is coming but not exactly sure" alert. The user can also use the app to look at the map before he goes on the trails to see how many people are out there/where those people are at that time. So you're right, when you don't have cell phone service nothing will be 100%, but something is better than nothing. And cell phone companies are traveling further and further towards 100% coverage. In places like Michigan, where I'm located, we do have cell phone service in most places on our trails, until you get further up north into the UP then it decreases. So is it 100% all the time in every situation? No, but I would rather have something rather than nothing. 

How about that tree over the trail? The 9,999 other guys without the app or device?

Depending on an app to protect you and not pay attention and follow safe protocols when riding is a recipe for disaster. Think about what will happen when someone trusts your app implicitly and crashes. Who do you think will be held responsible?

What you have is a way for a group ride to stay connected when out of line of sight. With a loss of RF signal, it would tell the group a rider has fallen back and to wait up or go back and check on them. To make people it will provide the level of safety you are touting is simply not possible.