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CRF230L teardown and rebuild

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Hey everybody, I was hoping to get some input on a project a buddy of mine and I are going to be starting soon. Ryan and I both have Honda CRF230Ls, his is a 08 and mine is a 09. They both have around 10-12k miles on them and we both bought them used around 8k. Mine is a 2009 and his is a 2008.

 

The plan is to strip them down to the frames. Coat the frames with a rhinoliner type substance to inhibit rust and increase durability. Polish the engines to make them nice and shiny. Replace all rubber fuel and vacuum lines with new ones. Replace any parts that appear to be worn or failing. Remove the engine head if necessary and adjust the valves. We have done pads, chains, oil, and tires recently. 

 

So my question to you guys is what kind of things do you think I should look at or replace while they are in pieces?  We don't know what prior engine maintenance they have had. Ryan’s bike won’t take the same carb settings and adjustments as mine and run well so we suspect an issue elsewhere. We have almost identical modifications so I would think the settings should be somewhat inline with each other. Maybe I’m wrong about that? I will list settings and mods below. 

 

Also is there a particular way we should go about this. Do one section on each at a time to use the other as a frame of reference seems like a good idea? Neither of us has undertaken a project this large before so we are kinda going in blind. 

 

I have a factory service manual and the Clymer manual for the bikes. My mechanical skills are new but I can follow directions well. The most complex mods I’ve done so far are rejetting my carb without ever having touched a carb before and I got it to fire first try after doing so. Or rewiring the bikes for LED signals so I don’t have to use load resistors.  

 

Future mods we would like to do include integrated turn signals in handle bar guards to eliminate the led signals that stick out. Also any suspension suggestions would be great. Mine could use a little firming up and Ryan’s could use a little height boost as well.

 

Jetting

Ben:

Main: 138

Pilot: 40

Needle on 4th notch? Can't remember, mine is set to run much richer, although his seems to put out a lot more unburnt fuel, and seems richer than mine.

 

Ryan:

Main:132

Pilot: 35

Needle on 3rd notch

 

Both have FMFq4 and powerbomb header

Both have open airboxes

Both have DRC Edge2 integrated taillights

Both have LED front blinkers and necessary wiring mods

Both are running Kenda tires.

Mine has a LED headlight and LED gauge cluster bulb

EDIT: Forgot to mention they both have the DynoJet kit installed on them.

 

Attached a few pics of the bikes and one of my very fun (lol) re-wiring job to make LEDs work

 

Thanks for any input! And cheers from Maine!

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Edited by ben416
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I'm happy for you guys and your upcoming projects/adventures...

Skip the rhino lining on the frame... Powder Coating is almost bulletproof and you have a massive choice of colors...  

Your jetting specs sound massively rich on main jet selection... Too rich on main will just act like a rev limiter kicking in... Swap to a 120 main and see if they don't run out way better on top...

If someone has more info on L model jetting and why so large of a main, ease chime in and correct me..

 

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I have to admit a little jealousy over your street legal status....Lol... I will try to work past it :)

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40 to 42 pilot seems correct... I just put mine together with a 45 and it seems way too happy to start without much choke.... 

4th clip on adjustable needle....

120 main

Just breaking in my reworked f model... And other than maybe a tad rich on pilot jet... The jetting seems spot on... 

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While they are apart, a fresh oversize bore mated to wiseco 11 to 1 compression pistons would be a nice add... Both for power and longevity...

Forged pistons typically have better wear characteristics than cast...

I wouldn't change cams unless you were really after more power... Stock cams last forever ... And so will the valvetrain...

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Quote

Ryan’s bike won’t take the same carb settings and adjustments as mine and run well so we suspect an issue elsewhere. We have almost identical modifications so I would think the settings should be somewhat inline with each other. Maybe I’m wrong about that?

The CRF230L has a CV carb with a non-adjustable needle.  If your carbs have adjustable needles, then you have aftermarket kits.  DynoJet sells such a kit.  Moose sells one also, but it appears to be a DynoJet kit also.  But maybe not.  CRFsOnly sells the Moose kit.  There may be only 1 kit with an adjustable needle. If there is more than one, you each may have a different kit.

You don't mention float level and fuel screw (pilot screw) settings.  Also, a 1-clip position difference on the needle is a lot.

One or both of you may have carb heater problems; not working or out of adjustment.

______________________________________________

Have a look:

DynotJet kit

http://www.dynojet.com/jetkits/motorcycle/jetkits.aspx?vt=motorcycle&vm=honda

 

CRFsOnly kit

https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/4448

 

Need Help Jetting CRF230L (not F)

https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1047442-need-help-jetting-crf230l-not-f/

There are other threads like this; let Google be your friend.

 

Google <crf230l jet kit>

The Sigma kit looks interesting...

_____________________________________________________

Almost nothing about the CRF230F carb settings applies to the CRF230L carb settings, other than basic carb tuning principles.

:ride:

Edited by ramz
More info
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There we go...

Did not know the CV deal.....

Not my fav on anything if you are going to tune for performance... So much depends on the spring rate that controls the vacuum opening of the slide...

 

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Oops, I forgot to mention the Dynojet kits. They both have them as that's how I adjust the needle. Mine seems to start fine, but his is a little harder, and starts revving very high for a little bit before calming down. Mine started easier with the factory pilot jet tho, I could start it in 0º weather no problem. I'm thinking about trying a 38. Hadn't thought about the carb heater tho! Good idea. His sounds a little different when it idles, perhaps I will see about getting a video comparing the two. 

 

I didn't know about the float level adjustment? And the pilot screw on mine is around 2.5turns like the dynojet kit suggests. I can't remember what Ryan's is, I messed with it until it seemed to run at an acceptable level and let it rest until we had more time to figure this out. Mine seems to run fairly well, but could probably do better. I just can't get his to run the same as mine with the jets, needle, and pilot screw settings. Perhaps the float level is to blame?

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On 4/1/2017 at 0:29 PM, mixxer said:

I have to admit a little jealousy over your street legal status....Lol... I will try to work past it :)

It's very easy to plate a dirt bike in OH, I don't think it's too difficult to do in MI, these bikes are great fun running around town.

 

On 4/1/2017 at 2:53 PM, ben416 said:

I can't remember what Ryan's is

I think a list of the carb adjustments and components would be helpful in diagnosing the problems with what works and does not work.  

 

On 4/1/2017 at 10:40 AM, ben416 said:

The plan is to strip them down to the frames. Coat the frames with a rhinoliner type substance to inhibit rust and increase durability. Polish the engines to make them nice and shiny. Replace all rubber fuel and vacuum lines with new ones. Replace any parts that appear to be worn or failing. Remove the engine head if necessary and adjust the valves

Paint or powder coat, Truck bed liner is porous, it will trap dirt and never look clean. With a polished motor that would not be a good contrast. Check valves and vacuum lines , this could be a contributing to CV carb issues.

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I have the M model with FMF header with Q4 and baffle removed from air box. Here are my jets: 122 main & 35 slow.

I'm using the Kiehin (sp) jet numbers. I think that Dyno and Moose use different numbers.

Edited by atown8605

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On 4/3/2017 at 11:30 AM, atown8605 said:

I have the M model with FMF header with Q4 and baffle removed from air box. Here are my jets: 122 main & 35 slow.

I'm using the Kiehin (sp) jet numbers. I think that Dyno and Moose use different numbers.

That could be leading to some confusion. I've been using the Dynojet kit but buying Kiehin jets online for trying other settings. 

 

I think what I'm going to do is try your jetting on his since your mods are similar to ours. One other mod I forgot was the XR's only smog delete kit. I put that on both bikes as well for what its worth. 

At this point we are even debating different carbs. Mainly due to what mixxer said about performance turning and the spring being an issue.

 

I will probably wait until we start rebuilding them at this point to worry about the carb settings since there is little point in tuning them before we strip them down. So I guess any input on the teardown process might be good. Any trouble spots that are hard to disassemble. Do I need any special tools like for the forks?

 

Will post pics of project as its happening once it begins :) 

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I have the XR smog delete kit as well.

I like the CV carb because it adjusts fuel ratio for altitude changes and I ride at different different altitudes and dont want to rejet.

I've never heard of a dramatic change from swapping out the cv carb for another type. The F head has a much larger intake port than the L. To take advantage of a different carb would require the F cylinder head.

Keep us posted on your progress. There is not much data on TT about the L/M.

Edited by atown8605

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1 hour ago, atown8605 said:

I like the CV carb because it adjusts fuel ratio for altitude changes and I ride at different different altitudes and dont want to rejet.

 

CV carbs adjust fuel ratio???

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1 hour ago, atown8605 said:

I like the CV carb because it adjusts fuel ratio for altitude changes and I ride at different different altitudes and dont want to rejet.

Not true.  A CV carb adjusts slide height based upon engine load requirements.  It has nothing to do with A/F ratio.

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16 minutes ago, VortecCPI said:

Not true.  A CV carb adjusts slide height based upon engine load requirements.  It has nothing to do with A/F ratio.

My understanding is.. a vacuum controled slide will reduce lean/rich conditions during full throttle low speeds conditions, such as a low RPM WOT where a slide carb gets a lean bog.  Jetting is static the slide type won't affect the A/F mixture.

I would think that a CV carb would be mellow in response and based upon available vacuum and why the lessened effect of lean/rich conditions. 

correct me if I'm wrong

Edited by NEODS
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I'm going with NEODS on this one and my own experience in that I never have felt the need to rejet my M going from sea level to 8000 feet. Yes it does run richer at 8k but not to the point I would consider rejeting.

The important point for the original poster is the difference in F and L heads. Mainly that the intake port is much  larger on the F. I think we can all agree on that.

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CV carbs .... You open the throttle... And the engine vacuum opens the slide...

A way that prevents lean conditions from the slide being opened too much, too quickly, for the vacuum and jetting circuits to supply the correct amount of fuel...  Plus it allows for leaner jetting than normal since the slide movement is delayed/ moderated compared to throttle movement... Great for emissions... A pain for performance...

Pumper carbs... Aka accelerator pump carbs ....Such as the wonderful FCR Keihins.... Are the best performance carbs... A spray of fuel , from the pump circuit, is discharged into the venturi during rapid throttle openings...Ensuring  closer to correct air fuel ratio in the immediate sense...Until rpm and vacuum rise to a level that the proper jet circuit is fully functional....

I would prefer a pumper carb...

Be happy with a properly jetted  conventional carb....

And pretty much tolerate (on the edge of loathing) CV carbs... 

Personal preference only...

Edited by mixxer
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33 minutes ago, NEODS said:

My understanding is.. a vacuum controled slide will reduce lean/rich conditions during full throttle low speeds conditions, such as a low RPM WOT where a slide carb gets a lean bog.  Jetting is static the slide type won't affect the A/F mixture.

Agreed.  It will not compensate A/F ratio for changes in air density.

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I have a Suzuki 650 single with a CV carb and Yamaha 600 single with primary slide and secondary CV.  I also had a twin-carb XR265R and twin-carb XL600R, both equipped with slider primary and secondary.  A properly-sized and properly-jetted slider is hard to beat.  While CV carbs can be made to work very well (HD is a good example) I prefer the feel and response of sliders.

Key words...  "properly-sized and properly-jetted"...

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