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KTM EXC 200 2T fuel consumption/ carb setting

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Hello,

I have a KTM EXC 200, two stroke, for about two months, I'm kind of a beginner and I know that a two stroke has a big fuel consumption, but I want to make sure that everything is ok.
Thing is, my range is 67 km (40 miles) and I average a consumption of 13 litres/ 100 km (18 MPG) and that looks like a lot to me!
I am a beginner rider so I'm not riding hard enduro or hard uphills, etc. Is this normal or do I have some wrong settings on the carb?

I am especially disturbed about the range, 70 km is not such a long ride... What am I gonna do when I'll ride with my friends that have 4 stroke enduros!?

Thanks!

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Nice job on picking up a 200, you will have a lot of fun!

As for your mileage, as the saying goes "your mileage may vary".  This simply means that how you ride will have a large effect on how far you will get on a tank of pre-mix.  40 miles on one tank does seem a little short, but I have no idea of what the terrain is like in your area.  But if you feel like you should be getting better mileage then answer this, are you getting a lot of "two stroke spooge" out the silencer?  If so then it's running rich and you should lean out the carb which will then give you a better running bike and better fuel mileage.

Also, how much you weigh and how you ride will also effect your mileage.  On rides that you need to get as far as possible, try running a gear high and use the low and mid range as much as possible.

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4 hours ago, avas.eduard said:

Hello,

I have a KTM EXC 200, two stroke, for about two months, I'm kind of a beginner and I know that a two stroke has a big fuel consumption, but I want to make sure that everything is ok.
Thing is, my range is 67 km (40 miles) and I average a consumption of 13 litres/ 100 km (18 MPG) and that looks like a lot to me!
I am a beginner rider so I'm not riding hard enduro or hard uphills, etc. Is this normal or do I have some wrong settings on the carb?

I am especially disturbed about the range, 70 km is not such a long ride... What am I gonna do when I'll ride with my friends that have 4 stroke enduros!?

Thanks!

carb tuning is a must

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wanted to piggyback off this thread a bit and ask for some advice.  i have a 2014 200 that I have pretty much haven't touched the carb besides minor air screw adjustments when I randomly get a lean bog off the bottom.  I have never even as so much as cracked open the carb to even see what was in there because it ran well. For some reason my float bowl adjustment got out of whack the other day, causing me to have to crack open the carb for the first time and mess with stuff.  Out of curiosity I looked at the brass and saw a 40 pilot, 158 MJ and an N1EI needle middle clip.  I ride pretty much anywhere from 500' on up to 4500 feet and like i said, I've only had to occasionally make AS adjustments to compensate for weather/elevation.  Am I leaving any performance on the table with these settings?  I'm very well versed with KTM jetting specs for 250's and 300's, and while I've been able to get them to run well with stock brass...the ultimate performance has always came from using alternate needles (necj) ect.  

 

What are you 2-hunny guys running?  What are the hot setups?

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1 hour ago, Andrew_v949 said:

wanted to piggyback off this thread a bit and ask for some advice.  i have a 2014 200 that I have pretty much haven't touched the carb besides minor air screw adjustments when I randomly get a lean bog off the bottom.  I have never even as so much as cracked open the carb to even see what was in there because it ran well. For some reason my float bowl adjustment got out of whack the other day, causing me to have to crack open the carb for the first time and mess with stuff.  Out of curiosity I looked at the brass and saw a 40 pilot, 158 MJ and an N1EI needle middle clip.  I ride pretty much anywhere from 500' on up to 4500 feet and like i said, I've only had to occasionally make AS adjustments to compensate for weather/elevation.  Am I leaving any performance on the table with these settings?  I'm very well versed with KTM jetting specs for 250's and 300's, and while I've been able to get them to run well with stock brass...the ultimate performance has always came from using alternate needles (necj) ect.  

 

What are you 2-hunny guys running?  What are the hot setups?

i got a 2003 engines ktm 200 exc and a 2000 kx250 and the jetting is exactly the same for both bikes and they have the same carb

the suzkuki needles work in anything from 200cc-300cc with maybe slightly different pilot jets and mains

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Your mileage does sound very bad, especially for a 200. All good advice here, but I'd look into leaks and jetting. 

I thought my 125 jetting was good until I started riding it on the road. 35mpg(imp) tops. 

With some jetting changes I got it up to 55mpg(imp) and it ran so much better. 

25464_371305075802_2896505_n.jpg?oh=aff6

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23 hours ago, zig06 said:

what the terrain is like in your area
are you getting a lot of "two stroke spooge" out the silencer
how much you weigh and how you ride will also effect your mileage

I'm a beginner, I ride woods mostly, no hard uphills, no mountains, yet. Usual heigh is 200-300 m (650-1000 ft).
The end of my silencer doesn't have "spooge" drooling out of it, but I do have a lot of black oily dots on my garage door, the back of my enduro jacket and on the riders behind me.
I am light, I weight around 60 kg (130 lbs) fully geared.

22 hours ago, farmboybunk said:

Check your float level.

Ok, I watched some youtube videos, I read the manual and I learned what's that, how to do it and I'll do it. I will get back here after and tell you if this was wrong.

10 hours ago, sbest said:

Your mileage does sound very bad, especially for a 200. All good advice here, but I'd look into leaks and jetting.

Ok, this is something that I read about, jetting, I understand there are some needles, but how do I know what I have? And what should I buy for my situation?

Thanks to all who answered!

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Lean out you carb its easy to do. Take your carb apart and look at the numbers on the MJ and PJ. then go leaner one of two down. I do not get why everyone is so worried about gas mileage.

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 I do not get why everyone is so worried about gas mileage.


Range. Some people ride more then 60 miles in one ride. And who wants to pack extra fuel on there back?

Cost. Why pay for more fuel just to waste it?
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5 hours ago, avas.eduard said:

Ok, this is something that I read about, jetting, I understand there are some needles, but how do I know what I have? And what should I buy for my situation?

Understand that the carb has 4 systems:

  1. Pilot jet for idle and low speed,
  2. Air screw to fine tune idle
  3. Needle to take care of the mid-range transition from idle to Wide Open Throttle (WOT)
  4. Main jet for WOT (CAUTION! not too lean)

2-4.jpg

Take your carb off, take the bowl off, and see what number Main and Pilot jet you have now. Record the numbers of each jet. Typically stock jets are on the rich side, so buy the next 2 smaller sizes of the main and the pilot, and at least a couple new plugs.

Get the pilot right first. Lean is a lower number, try to lean it to the point it runs well and sharp, but still starts and doesn't stumble when you give it throttle. Pilot jet is the long one and is usually in the number range of 35-45 for most KTMs.  Install the next leaner pilot and start the bike. Adjust the air screw for the highest smooth idle and back the idle speed down to what sounds right. Try the bike. Once warmed up does it give good response off idle? Better than before? If so, try the next leaner pilot. Still better? 

Picture of a pilot jet: 52320_adellsecvhst.jpg 

The needle is on the bottom of the throttle barrel. It has a series of 5 grooves you can fit the clip in. Try a groove higher (lean) or a groove lower to see which works better. 

pwk3.gif This one is full rich: hqdefault.jpg

Tinker with the needle up and down to find where the bike works best, remembering it has effect in the middle range of throttle opening. 

Last is the main jet: cat-54531623165.jpg Here is where you can do some damage. 

Too lean and you can burn up a piston and ruin your motor. Too rich, you are giving up power. Before you try swapping the main jet you have to learn to read plugs. Buy some cheap plugs, just standard NGK B8ES or what ever you bike takes. This is not the time or place for iridium. Warm up the bike, take it to a good long steep hill in your area. About a mile run is good. Put the new plug in the engine and run the bike WOT up the hill though the gears and as fast as she will go for at least a mile or further. Kill switch the engine and pull the clutch, coast to a stop and remove this plug. Bag it and take it home. Hacksaw the threaded portion off so you can see the ceramic insulator:

IMG_6963.jpg

This is what you are looking to see, the smoke ring at the base of the insulator. This plug would probably represent a pretty good mixture.

Most people don't cut them like above, below is easier:

plugchops.jpg You can see the progression from rich to lean. 

Look up "plug chop" to get more information on reading plugs. This is a very brief primer. 

Based on what you read off the plug, change you main jet if you need to. 

This has been a very, very brief overview of carb jetting. The pilot and needle will affect consumption most, the main affects power. 

Edited by sbest
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If you are not really sure about changing your jetting without really knowing "what" your changing and "why" your changing it, I would strongly recommend buying a jet kit.  JD Jet kits are very good, European riders may have some other kits available.  After buying a kit all you need to do is just be honest with yourself when you read the instructions.  Good kits like the JD jet kits will walk you through what to change and what to adjust.  Yes, they are not really cheap buy but you are buying a proven kit that will solve your troubles in one session. 

After successfully installing a jet kit, you might have enough knowledge to re-jet another bike without buying a kit. 

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Took the carb out, opened it up and have a few questions, hopefully someone can help:

1. Please take a look at the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8l7pHtP6E
- I noticed some play in the float assembly, is it normal?
- the surface looking from the air intake looks "shaved", should it be like this?
- the slider and the surface that it slides onto has some fine vertical lines, they can't be felt at hand, is it ok to be like that?
- the float is now aligned at 45 degrees as most youtubers say it should be, but my manual says 60 degrees (picture attached), so should I do as the manual says or let it at 45 degrees? Which one makes it leaner, 60 or 45 degrees? I think 60, right?
- the rubber lines attached to the carburetor look old, should I change them?

2. In the service manual I found out what jets and needles I should have for my temperature and height and I red squared them in one of the uploaded images, so:
- idling jet: manual says 45, my carb has 45
- needle: manual says NOZE, my carb has NOZE; Note: The needle has some wear signs on it, I can't catch them on photo or video, the surface looks slightly sanded in some places, probably where it meets the small tube that it slides into, should I change it? Should I buy NOZE, or maybe NOZF, or even NOZG considering my high fuel consumption?
- clip position: manual says 3, my needle is 3
- main jet: manual says 180, I have 178; Note: If you look at the attached picture you can see that my main jet is made from two parts. This is weird, all of the ones I saw to buy are made from one single part... Should I buy a new one, which means one made from 1 piece? If yes, what number?

Probably a lot of questions, sorry about that... But I really need to make this right, 70 kms range is just too small and annoying.

Thanks!

floats.jpg

main_jet.jpg

jets_and_needle.jpg

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18 minutes ago, avas.eduard said:

Took the carb out, opened it up and have a few questions, hopefully someone can help:

1. Please take a look at the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8l7pHtP6E
- I noticed some play in the float assembly, is it normal?
- the surface looking from the air intake looks "shaved", should it be like this?
- the slider and the surface that it slides onto has some fine vertical lines, they can't be felt at hand, is it ok to be like that?
- the float is now aligned at 45 degrees as most youtubers say it should be, but my manual says 60 degrees (picture attached), so should I do as the manual says or let it at 45 degrees? Which one makes it leaner, 60 or 45 degrees? I think 60, right?
- the rubber lines attached to the carburetor look old, should I change them?

2. In the service manual I found out what jets and needles I should have for my temperature and height and I red squared them in one of the uploaded images, so:
- idling jet: manual says 45, my carb has 45
- needle: manual says NOZE, my carb has NOZE; Note: The needle has some wear signs on it, I can't catch them on photo or video, the surface looks slightly sanded in some places, probably where it meets the small tube that it slides into, should I change it? Should I buy NOZE, or maybe NOZF, or even NOZG considering my high fuel consumption?
- clip position: manual says 3, my needle is 3
- main jet: manual says 180, I have 178; Note: If you look at the attached picture you can see that my main jet is made from two parts. This is weird, all of the ones I saw to buy are made from one single part... Should I buy a new one, which means one made from 1 piece? If yes, what number?

Probably a lot of questions, sorry about that... But I really need to make this right, 70 kms range is just too small and annoying.

Thanks!

floats.jpg

main_jet.jpg

jets_and_needle.jpg

 

The manual is no where near perfect or good jetting it is a "guide" and is really conservative ( rich) 

45 pilot should be ok to work with 

the Suzuki NEDJ needle clip 2 works really well in the 200 exc at sea level and your temp range 

and I have a 168 main in my 200 and it is still rich . The standard nose needle and the standard 180 main was an absolute spluttery heap of shit set up when I first rode and started to tune the 200. In my opinion you will be chasing your tail with the ktm jetting .

 

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8 hours ago, avas.eduard said:

Took the carb out, opened it up and have a few questions, hopefully someone can help:

1. Please take a look at the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr8l7pHtP6E
- I noticed some play in the float assembly, is it normal?
- the surface looking from the air intake looks "shaved", should it be like this?
- the slider and the surface that it slides onto has some fine vertical lines, they can't be felt at hand, is it ok to be like that?
- the float is now aligned at 45 degrees as most youtubers say it should be, but my manual says 60 degrees (picture attached), so should I do as the manual says or let it at 45 degrees? Which one makes it leaner, 60 or 45 degrees? I think 60, right?
- the rubber lines attached to the carburetor look old, should I change them?

2. In the service manual I found out what jets and needles I should have for my temperature and height and I red squared them in one of the uploaded images, so:
- idling jet: manual says 45, my carb has 45
- needle: manual says NOZE, my carb has NOZE; Note: The needle has some wear signs on it, I can't catch them on photo or video, the surface looks slightly sanded in some places, probably where it meets the small tube that it slides into, should I change it? Should I buy NOZE, or maybe NOZF, or even NOZG considering my high fuel consumption?
- clip position: manual says 3, my needle is 3
- main jet: manual says 180, I have 178; Note: If you look at the attached picture you can see that my main jet is made from two parts. This is weird, all of the ones I saw to buy are made from one single part... Should I buy a new one, which means one made from 1 piece? If yes, what number?

Probably a lot of questions, sorry about that... But I really need to make this right, 70 kms range is just too small and annoying.

Thanks!

floats.jpg

main_jet.jpg

jets_and_needle.jpg

1) Some play (a LOT of play) is totally normal for the float assembly.  Float level does affect jetting, but can work within a range, as long as it does not overflow or starve for fuel. I often alter float level to test for jet correction when I am waiting for proper sized jets to arrive. Carb float height has the effect of about 5 points in jet size from top to bottom (2.5 each way) but it affects every carb circuit (pilot, needle and main). Set it up to the manual unless you find a need to change that value (over flow, etc). YES! Replace all worn or aged hoses or other parts on your bike as soon as you notice them. Try to find original quality parts because there are good reasons for the manufacturer choosing them.

2) Krob answered this perfectly. The manual is on the safe (rich) side and is a good recommendation of where to start. Whenever in doubt, go back to the service manual recommendations for jetting, suspension settings, bolt torques, lubricants, and procedures. You can make personal variations from there, but always start from a "known good point".

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This is how a brand new iridium spark plug looks after two rides of about 2.5 hours reach, so about 5 hours in total.
From what I understand from tutorials about reading a spark plug is that I am clearly running rich because the spark plug is black and has deposits on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Just lean your bike out.......................Its not that hard..................

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I have to ask again about the main jet made out of two parts.

As I writen above, my carburetor came with a main jet made out of two parts, front says 178, KTM EXC 200 fast acceleration hesitationKTM EXC 200 fast acceleration hesitationKTM EXC 200 fast acceleration hesitation, rear says 135. Picture attached. So with this one the bike is rich, but it accelerates smoothly.

Because I thought that the two part main needle is weird and my manual shows that I should have the main jet made out of one part, I ordered a new 178 main jet from KTM store. However, with the 178 main jet made from one part the bike hesitates when I accelerate it fast, while with the one made from two parts it accelerates smoothly, no hesitation at all. Video with the hesitation: https://youtu.be/ax_b6J4bzeI

The question is, what kind of a main jet is this, what value does it have? If I have to change it, I have no idea what value to order!
The KTM shop doesn't have main jets made out of two parts, only the stock ones, from one part.

 

Screenshot_2017-04-30-12-52-39[100].png

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That thing sounds rich as hell, I would go back to your ktm dealer and get a 170 main jet and try that out. As KXrob suggested, I switched my 200 over to a Suzuki carb needle (NECJ) and it runs great now. Not sure if you can do that on the older 200's with the different carb but I'd imagine you would have no problems.

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