counter shaft seal

[Tunaman1]

Hello fellow tters,

Has anybody had a counter-shaft seal leak??? 2017 500 RR-S dual sport. Very low hours. If so whats the fix???

Is it like a regular m/c just pull the seal and install a new one?? Or is there something special you have to do?????

 

Edwaters

 

[Subby]

Oh dear jesus. I posed this same question a couple years ago when my 300 let loose. I was informed I was so petty to bring up such a trivial concern. Turns out, it's just like the KTMs. For some reason, the Euros can't seem to design a cs setup that doesn't leak within a few years. Replacement is the same as always. Use a good seal, not always the cheapest. And the chain on the Beta's likes to be run loose, as in slaps/chatters under low rpm throttle roll on.

[Borgschulze]

Be sure to check if the chain is adjusted right.

Mine came a little too tight, caused the seal to leak, and I loosened it a bit, and the seal hasn't leaked since.

[dyrtmon]

1 hour ago, Borgschulze said:

Be sure to check if the chain is adjusted right.

Mine came a little too tight, caused the seal to leak, and I loosened it a bit, and the seal hasn't leaked since.

^ ^ This.

Years of riding KTMs have taught me to run the chain a bit loose, do the same on my Beta. 6K miles on the KTM, 5K miles on the Beta have yet to change a countershaft seal.

[dslbrnr]

OP I changed my seal on my 2016 500RS a couple weeks ago (1,000 miles) as it was just barely leaking, mostly just some residue around the case and countershaft sprocket. Changing it was just like any other, gently pry out the old seal (I used a seal removal tool) and replace. Beta has an Oring at the end of the collar that I replaced also. I used a little RTV sealant around the outside of the seal prior to install. Make sure the seal is square with the case but slightly in set of the case. Check the collar, I used a little scotch bright to clean the outer surface of the collar but you may want to just replace it if it looks grooved or marred. Parts were about $30.00. Also put some grease around the inside lips of the new seal before install. 

The new seal looked slightly different as the original had metal around the outside and the new one was rubber.

Hasn't leaked since.  

Edited April 23, 2017 by dslbrnr

[danketchpel]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:15 PM, Tunaman1 said:

Hello fellow tters,

Has anybody had a counter-shaft seal leak??? 2017 500 RR-S dual sport. Very low hours. If so whats the fix???

Is it like a regular m/c just pull the seal and install a new one?? Or is there something special you have to do?????

 

Edwaters

 

Yes, my '17 500 RR-S had a minor countershaft seal leak. I should have had the dealer replace it but they are far away. I ordered the replacement seal from them and did it myself, it's not hard. I just popped out the old one carefully with a screwdriver and pressed in the new one with my fingers. I made sure to lube the seal lips and spacer with fresh trans oil.

I did notice the replacement seal was of much higher quality than the one that came out, quite a different design seal, more "normal" looking vs the one that came out. After I replaced it zero leaking from the countershaft.

I'm a bit suspicious they got a batch of ??? seals from someplace that were installed and they aren't the greatest.

[ballisticexchris]

Here is the deal guys. If you do any kind of gearing change the concave washer is not reusable. You use 2 sockets and hammer it to re arch it. Not the best option though. You are better off getting the Dirt Tricks reusable washer.

Another reason for leaks is if you go by the Beta specs for chain tension. 30-35mm is way too tight and will cause not only the seal to leak but damage the mainshaft splines over time. 40-45mm is the correct tension for 4T Betas.

On 4/20/2017 at 7:30 PM, Subby said:

Oh dear jesus. I posed this same question a couple years ago when my 300 let loose. I was informed I was so petty to bring up such a trivial concern. Turns out, it's just like the KTMs. For some reason, the Euros can't seem to design a cs setup that doesn't leak within a few years. Replacement is the same as always. Use a good seal, not always the cheapest. And the chain on the Beta 's likes to be run loose, as in slaps/chatters under low rpm throttle roll on.

You are very smart Subby! Anyone who thinks this is trivial is going to get sticker shock when they have to split the cases and install a new mainshaft.

Since I tensioned my chain to 40-45mm and started using the Dirt Tricks washer my CS has not leaked a drop. It's been over 200hrs and 4 years.

[danketchpel]

Thanks for the tip on the MSR Dome Washer, ordered one up from Amazon.

So far I haven't seen mine flatten out but I'm rather sure the MSR one is of higher quality.

For what it's worth, the CS seal in my bike originally was of a quite different design than the replacement. The original had very short seal lips with little pliability and a mostly metal casing. The replacement looked like most modern seals I've used with long and pliable seal lips and a mostly rubber covered casing. I wish I'd take a photo of the one that came out. I wasn't surprised it was leaking when I saw it.

Mine didn't leak that much, but enough to show a weeping under the CS sprocket area.

[Brock Warwick]

Apparently I have the issue.  2017 500 rr-s.  Noticed this morning after yesterday's ride. 

I did change my cs sprocket, used the same washer, it seemed very robust and was still domed. 

I will loosen the chain a littler more before the next ride.   Is the washer supposed to crush flat against the cs sprocket or remain domed when torqued?

Removing the bolt was a real b1tch btw...

Edited April 30, 2017 by benwiggin2

[dslbrnr]

Washer should be flat after torqued. Mine was also a PITA the first time I removed it. I ended up heating the bolt with a heat gun which helped loosen up that locktight the factory used.

[MartyMOOSE]

13 hours ago, dslbrnr said:

Washer should be flat after torqued. Mine was also a PITA the first time I removed it. I ended up heating the bolt with a heat gun which helped loosen up that locktight the factory used.

I saw on this frum or another can't remember one guy snapped the bolt on a brand new bike. Good tip... 

Edited May 1, 2017 by MartyMOOSE

[danketchpel]

You will need to change the seal. The seal that came in my 2017 500 was a POS. The replacement seal I got from the dealer was far better, you could see the difference. No more leak on mine with the stock dome washer. My washer wasn't flattened out.

I ordered the MSR washer just to upgrade the next time I pull the sprocket off, but the stock one wasn't toast.

[ballisticexchris]

Here you guys go for the 0 ring:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Genuine-KTM-O-RING-25-12X1-78-NBR70-0770020220-/301796145164

 

 

[Ben500RR-S]

I'm pretty sure my C/S seal is leaking.  At first I thought I had over-chain waxed my chain, but after cleaning the residue, I have a lot of black splatter on the frame below the swingarm bolt.  

I'm going to order a new seal tomorrow and I'm glad I can just pry the old one out and just push the new one in.  Thanks guys.  

[jpbova]

On 4/20/2017 at 10:30 PM, Subby said:

Oh dear jesus. I posed this same question a couple years ago when my 300 let loose. I was informed I was so petty to bring up such a trivial concern. Turns out, it's just like the KTMs. For some reason, the Euros can't seem to design a cs setup that doesn't leak within a few years. Replacement is the same as always. Use a good seal, not always the cheapest. And the chain on the Beta's likes to be run loose, as in slaps/chatters under low rpm throttle roll on.

I am finding the Beta CS to be much more durable than the KTM CS.  The KTM CS would blow under any kind of tension and/or time.  Certainly neither euro bikes CS seal is up to standards with Japanese bike though 

 

On 4/20/2017 at 11:54 PM, Borgschulze said:

Be sure to check if the chain is adjusted right.

Mine came a little too tight, caused the seal to leak, and I loosened it a bit, and the seal hasn't leaked since.

On 4/21/2017 at 1:25 AM, dyrtmon said:

^ ^ This.

Years of riding KTMs have taught me to run the chain a bit loose, do the same on my Beta. 6K miles on the KTM, 5K miles on the Beta have yet to change a countershaft seal.

I have not changed the CS on my 15 either.  If you run the correct chain tension, they are fairly durable.  That being said, I have a paper towel sitting under my CS now because you all have made me paranoid.

 

 

Edit:  Also excessive pressure washing will cause these seals to fail faster 

Edited May 15, 2018 by jpbova

[Ben500RR-S]

53 minutes ago, jpbova said:

I am finding the Beta CS to be much more durable than the KTM CS.  The KTM CS would blow under any kind of tension and/or time.  Certainly neither euro bikes CS seal is up to standards with Japanese bike though 

 

I have not changed the CS on my 15 either.  If you run the correct chain tension, they are fairly durable.  That being said, I have a paper towel sitting under my CS now because you all have made me paranoid.

 

Funny.  

If my seal was not leaking, I'd certainly not change it but that is funny, you have a paper towel underneath should the bike leak.  I have a leak and don't even put anything under the bike as it just goes onto the lower frame gussets and skid plate. 

I ordered both a new C/S sprocket seal and the rubber battery hold down, all for $29 shipped.  

Edited May 15, 2018 by Ben500RR-S

[jpbova]

2 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

Funny.  

If my seal was not leaking, I'd certainly not change it but that is funny, you have a paper towel underneath should the bike leak.  I have a leak and don't even put anything under the bike as it just goes onto the lower frame gussets and skid plate. 

I ordered both a new C/S sprocket seal and the rubber battery hold down, all for $29 shipped.  

Don't laugh at me because I am bike hypochondriac 

[Ben500RR-S]

Just now, jpbova said:

Don't laugh at me because I am bike hypochondriac 

It is not like the paper towel is for the bike, rather, your precious garage floor.  I can see you with a nice, white dainty square of a paper towel, laying it gently, just so, right under where a drip MIGHT fall, under the bike . . . =good stuff!  

 

I'm taking care of a Beta-baby, wiping up the drool and spittle that is all over the lower frame rails and the gearshifter.