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Beta 500 RRs issues

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I am curious to see if anyone else is having the same issues I'm having with my 500 RRs.

When the engine gets hot ( 200+) it won't idle and the engine dies. I changed the airboot that apparently wasn't correct and it was ok for a while, but now that the weather is hot the same issues comes up as soon as the temps are over the 200 mark.

fan works, although I am surprised that it doesn't kick in before 210 or so.

 

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Mine did the same thing, described it to a Beta only dealer and he had some ideas. I don't know what he did but said he believed he had fixed it. I'm thinking perhaps a pinch hose or fault tank breather system.

Bruce

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Hi Bruce, thanks for your reply.

Did you have that issue at all times or only when the engine was hot( like 200-210).

mine runs just fine in the cooler ranges but when it gets hot it just dies.

 

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How about just adjust the idle screw? Very quick and easy fix on the trail. You can also go up one size on the pilot jet for a cleaner idle. The stock jetting is lean from the factory. Also get rid of the charcoal canister in the back while you're at it. 

When you do your initial teardown, reroute the wiring harness so you can swing subframe out of the way for easy carb/shock service. Once these Betas are jetted properly they never have to be messed with much. I had an adjustable leak jet and fuel screw knob installed for quick fine tuning at elevation.

 

Edited by ballisticexchris

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3 minutes ago, ballisticexchris said:

How about just adjust the idle screw? Very quick and easy fix on the trail. You can also go up one size on the pilot jet for a cleaner idle. The stock jetting is lean from the factory. Also get rid of the charcoal canister in the back while you're at it. 

When you do your initial teardown, reroute the wiring harness so you can swing subframe out of the way for easy carb/shock service. Once these Betas are jetted properly they never have to be messed with much. I had an adjustable leak jet and fuel screw knob installed for quick fine tuning at elevation.

 

Assuming it's carbureted

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I've experienced similar issues on my '17. Seems to flame out unexpectedly when hot, where as on my 450X it would just keep chugging away. I don't have the answer but you're not the only one experiencing it. 

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My MY16 used to flame out infrequently, and a couple of times refused to idle.  I did the stepper motor reset every once in a while, especially if I expect big elevation change & now at 60 plus hours, I can't remember last time idle, throttle acted goofy& no more flameouts.  I also have G2 throttle tamer but I doubt if that added anything to fixing these symptoms.  It may just need some time on it.  

That's kinda sucks but the way it is running now, I can forgive it's early issues & didn't ever thinking about them until I saw your post.

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1 hour ago, Grahamlin said:

Assuming it's carbureted

I thought being totally fuel injected they didn't need any adjustment. 

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OK to zero in a little, my comments were experienced on my 200 mile 2016 with FI. I do not know of a user adjustable idle other then via software for this bike.

And yes Sefano, only when very hot 230+, on a hot day. Took it to Brown's Cycle in Paso Robles figuring that being a Bate only dealership and located within 2 miles of the importer he was the best bet at resolving the issue. Can't be sure he fixed it as I have not had it that hot since but close and no issues. Wish I had asked him what was happening.

Do to the very hot conditions and no parts fix, I assumed it may have had to do with the fuel vapor system being pinched somewhere but I don't know. And I too was shocked at some of the operating temps, fan on at 225, running 225-235 often. Heck the Trail Tech fan kit with adjustable temp switch maxes out at like 210 or 215.

Bruce

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   I too was concerned at the temps of my Beta 500RS and the fan operation.  After a brief conversation with my dealer, it was pointed out that the temp readout is taken from the cylinder head on the Beta.  The fan thermocouple is located at the bottom of the radiator.  Aftermarket system's temperatures depend on where you take the temp reading from.

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It is almost certainly a problem with the gas tank ventilation system. When the engine gets hot it heats the fuel tank and the tank pressurizes against the overflow backflow preventer causing "vapor lock" and "fuel boiling" and causing fuel starvation. The newer models run some sort of flapper valve on the gas cap that has also been known to create mysterious "farting" sounds when the bike is parked with a hot engine and the older models had a check valve just above the fuel cap that can be removed. Another one of those problems that has been around for years, the attempted redesign of the fuel cap anti spill system appears not to have worked.

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4 hours ago, BDM said:

OK to zero in a little, my comments were experienced on my 200 mile 2016 with FI. I do not know of a user adjustable idle other then via software for this bike.

And yes Sefano, only when very hot 230+, on a hot day. Took it to Brown's Cycle in Paso Robles figuring that being a Bate only dealership and located within 2 miles of the importer he was the best bet at resolving the issue. Can't be sure he fixed it as I have not had it that hot since but close and no issues. Wish I had asked him what was happening.

Do to the very hot conditions and no parts fix, I assumed it may have had to do with the fuel vapor system being pinched somewhere but I don't know. And I too was shocked at some of the operating temps, fan on at 225, running 225-235 often. Heck the Trail Tech fan kit with adjustable temp switch maxes out at like 210 or 215.

Bruce

With a cold motor, start the engine without using any throttle at all.

Let it run for 3 min. With a laser thermometer, point it at the left radiator hose. When it measures 230, shut of the the motor for a minute, and then restart.

You have just calibrated the stepper motor for the current temp and air density.  

You can duplicate this any ride where you think the air density or temp is radically different from the previous ride. Eventully you will know exactly how much time you need, and not need the thermometer to know. Many times you will actually hear a 'glitch' in the idle speed when the internal calibration occurs, but not always.

Your dealer can provide you with (5) additional FI/Ign maps. 

100 (stock)/200/300 and FMF version 100/200/300

The numbers represent the additional idle rpm, a change in the Ignition curve, and resulting change in off idle leaness and reduced engine braking. It is very subtle.

FMF numbers represent the same thing, only with slightly richer FI across the board. The extra fuel make is run better/faster/cooler with the less restrictive exhaust.

You can also get the RE map(s) installed, which are a bit more advanced on the Ign throughout the rpm range, and an optional map switch to turn it back off ('wet conditions' they call it when that map is back to RS specs).  I don't think you have to change the ECU or anything else to use the RE mapping.

Edited by Krannie McKranface
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Krannie, thanks. My dealer did tell me to do that and I'm fairly sure I did it.  But don't you think that after 1 hour of riding without any issues and suddenly experiencing those issues, it might be something else?

from reading other posts in here, the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper..  fuel cap? Engine mapping ? Where to start troubleshooting? 

At the end of the day, when you're in the middle of nowhere with a motor that doesn't work it's to say the least annoying...

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2 hours ago, Flyingstefano said:

Krannie, thanks. My dealer did tell me to do that and I'm fairly sure I did it.  But don't you think that after 1 hour of riding without any issues and suddenly experiencing those issues, it might be something else?

from reading other posts in here, the rabbit hole goes deeper and deeper..  fuel cap? Engine mapping ? Where to start troubleshooting? 

At the end of the day, when you're in the middle of nowhere with a motor that doesn't work it's to say the least annoying...

A annoyance for sure. But the simplest thing to try is disconnecting the tank vent at the frame and tuck kit away not impeding the outlet. Then take another ride in excess of an hour.

My Beta did the same thing, and after running for quite a while, not sure if the temperature really had anything to do with it, all dirt bikes run hot in many conditions. 210-235 for me is normal temps in summer weather. My thoughts is after a while the vacuum in the tank plays havoc on your pump and creates the possible starvation issue, I disconnected mine and it has never done it again....

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There has been a few TPS failures, and they have all been swapped out under warranty, even well after a year.....but that is a constant running problem, not a 'ride then die' problem.

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If you are still having problems after you did the above suggestions, check you TPS voltage. Make sure it's at or just above Beta's specs. KTM/Husky TPS tool may plug in, I use the black 2014-2016 models FE/XCW on my Sherco (same FI system). Also the solenoid on the throttle body is not serviceable however it can leak a greasy oil the stick a little resulting in flame outs or stalls. Pull this and clean with carb spray.

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Hmm, maybe I haven't had a chance to ride my 500 in hot enough conditions but so far I have not experienced any funky monkey running, flame outs, stalling, not idling, etc. I've seen low 200s temp on the display but not for extended periods. Usually as long as there's some air flowing through the radiators it runs at 200 or less.

I think my fan kicks on right around 210-215 or so.

I will have to report back after the next "really hot" ride.

 

 

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so just to clear a few things up. Stefano , the author of this post. has a 2017 beta 500 rrs. it is fuel injected. it is a stock bike except for a fmf q series muffler. the bikes fan comes on at normal temps of about 215 degrees. this is not real hot . the bike has an IMS gas tank so it does not have the stock fuel cap. the bike has the correct airboot on it as some came from the factory with a very restrictive airboot. this one did come with the wrong airboot and it was corrected. we have sold over a dozen 2017 dual sports and to ny knowledge he is the only customer that has experienced this issue. any help is welcome. Dan

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23 minutes ago, MotoXotica said:

so just to clear a few things up. Stefano , the author of this post. has a 2017 beta 500 rrs. it is fuel injected. it is a stock bike except for a fmf q series muffler. the bikes fan comes on at normal temps of about 215 degrees. this is not real hot . the bike has an IMS gas tank so it does not have the stock fuel cap. the bike has the correct airboot on it as some came from the factory with a very restrictive airboot. this one did come with the wrong airboot and it was corrected. we have sold over a dozen 2017 dual sports and to ny knowledge he is the only customer that has experienced this issue. any help is welcome. Dan

Dan you are correct, and I thank you for your help you're given me in this issue .

but the problem still exist and it's real. I hope we can troubleshoot it.

 

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