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bike won't easily start after warming up

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my bike is a 2005...i took the battery out years ago to lighten it up, so i use the kickstarter exclusively to start the bike...over the past 50 hours the bike has slowly started to be hard to start after getting it warmed up, yeah sounds crazy.   the bike will start just fine from cold, say 1 or 2 kicks....then i go ride about 10 or even 20 miles and stop and take a break...that's when it is hard to get the bike to light up again...the only way i can do it is after kicking it about 20 times with the throttle about halfway open and then the bike will finally get started but at this point im afriad to even stop again after the hell trying to start it....

when im out there kicking it and it wont start, there is like a chink or clunk from the bottom right of the bike, like some gear might be an issue or causing some resistance...so i just too a week to change the clutch basket and plates since that clutch was not so great and thought that might be the issue...well the clutch works wonderfully smooth now but again the bike is almost impossible to start after getting warmed up...

 

i just can't figure this out...i dont think it is the jetting or carb although i did go through that a couple months ago. those specs are stock needle, clip 2nd position, main 142, pilot 45, fuel screw 1.5 turns out, stock muffler..

if i haven't mentioned it already, the bike runs great while it is running, no bogs, plenty of power, still fun

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From what I understand kickstarting these bikes often can cause damage to the area around the mount, just FYI.
It sounds like a jetting issue to me. Are you using the hot start once it's warm?

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Do you have a Hot start still use it?

Meant to add that you're going to want to check the valve lash as well. Usually a sign of the valves closing up is progressively getting harder and harder to start

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thanks for your replies guys...i forgot to mention that i went through the valve check the day before...the left intake got a tiny bit tight at .005 and the right was still at .006...reshimmed the left to .006...also i found the decompression lever was just a smig out of spec so got that sorted while in there....so with those two changes i thought i had the re-starting trouble solved but that wasn't it.  i took the hot start cable out years ago and left the nut and plugged it with a cork to seal it.  technically you dont need it.  i just ordered up a new cam chain and i'll drop that in next week as i think the tensioner is at its max out position.  but if the bike starts right up from cold, with choke on i guess i need to clarify, but dont want to start when hot, maybe i need to look at jetting again....also maybe i need to get the e-start fixed cuz when i think about it, the engineers designed the bike to use it, maybe it is easier to actually start with the e-start, since the gears for the e-start connect directly to the crankshaft...

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thanks for your replies guys...i forgot to mention that i went through the valve check the day before...the left intake got a tiny bit tight at .005 and the right was still at .006...reshimmed the left to .006...also i found the decompression lever was just a smig out of spec so got that sorted while in there....so with those two changes i thought i had the re-starting trouble solved but that wasn't it.  i took the hot start cable out years ago and left the nut and plugged it with a cork to seal it.  technically you dont need it.  i just ordered up a new cam chain and i'll drop that in next week as i think the tensioner is at its max out position.  but if the bike starts right up from cold, with choke on i guess i need to clarify, but dont want to start when hot, maybe i need to look at jetting again....also maybe i need to get the e-start fixed cuz when i think about it, the engineers designed the bike to use it, maybe it is easier to actually start with the e-start, since the gears for the e-start connect directly to the crankshaft...

Yeah...when jetting is spot on, kicking is no issue...but when it's not, the button saves a tired calf muscle...I've only kick started my 450X once, just to make sure everything was working. I recall seeing threads on here where people have cracked the case around the kick start shaft when kicking it...
I don't use the hot start all the time, but I recall periods when it was easier to start with it...maybe my jetting and really hot days?...can't remember...

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<<Its been a while so maybe my memory is wrong...When my valves closed up, it was hard to start cold and wouldn't idle cold, even with choke...it started well warm...>>

Yes, your right, it's usually when it's cold that you first notice, because that's when you need the most gas, but it can happen on a hot motor as well.  It's just one of the basic things you want to check before you go too far.  Without a lot more detail right off, it was hard to say what to look at, but valves would be something to look at since this has been a gradual change.   With it being a problem only with hot starts, a carb getting plugged up would not do that.   Possibly the emulsion tube getting oval'd would, because you'd be getting more gas than you should, but there's nothing else carb wise that would cause that.

<< just ordered up a new cam chain and i'll drop that in next week as i think the tensioner is at its max out position>>

 This might account for it because the timing is going to vary if there is not enough tension on the chain, giving you a hard start.  One tooth off on the chain can give you a no-start, so it doesn't take much.

<< i took the hot start cable out years ago and left the nut and plugged it with a cork to seal it.  technically you dont need it.  >>

 and I would disagree here; technically, you do need it, that's why the engineers put it there in the first place.   

If your jetting is spot on, then your slightly rich and on a hot motor, that means hard starting.   On my 250x I can get away without using it, but it's tough to get it going and I have to crank quite a bit.  It starts instantly when I use the hot start.    On the 450x, it's a difference of a non-start vs start.    If I don't use the hot start, it's no-go.  I'd kill my battery before I'd get it going.   I know many disable this thinking it's not needed and get away with it because their leaner than they should be, but you really do need it if your jetting is really on.

 However since the jetting has not been changed and this is a change in behavior, then something (or a combination of things) is obviously wearing out.

 Cam Chain sounds like a good idea and then I'd go from there.  Possibly an emulsion tube after that and then if no improvement, a leak down test to see where things are at in the cylinder.

Jim.

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On 4/23/2017 at 11:12 AM, shrubitup said:

one thing to try when it don't want to start from hot or cold is to both kick and use the button at the SAME time. It really does help even with a dead battery. 

I've read in other posts here that hitting the starter and kicking it at the same time can cause damage to these bikes.

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I've read in other posts here that hitting the starter and kicking it at the same time can cause damage to these bikes.

Use in emergencies only. Dialing in pilot jet helps the most to alleviate starting issues.

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I removed my hotstart cable replaced the hotstart on the carb with a plunger kind of like the choke pull.  I never have to use the hotstart though but if I needed to I can reach down and pull the plunger and use it.  I am in the Phoenix area and it gets hot but still no use for it.  I would suggest your carb needs some work.

 

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I ride in very hot tropical conditions and use the hot start after bike has been dropped. Otherwise would have to crank it over for ages. I also find this bike fires straight up on the e start but is a bitch to kick start.

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