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Bearing not seated properly

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Hey guys,

 

I installed all new bearings in the bottom end, putting the case halves together to make sure the transmission works I noticed the transmission locked up whenever any of the bolts are tightened. I tracked it down to the secondary shaft going through the bearing on the left case. There is nothing in the way, the case halves fit perfect without shafts installed.

Question is, I am assuming the issue here is that certain bearings isn't seated properly. It doesn't look visually crooked, but don't know what else it could be.

What is the best way to reseat it? Do I have to bake the case, remove the bearing, refreeze the bearing, and reheat the case? Or is there a better way of doing it. (I don't have a press)

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Is there a stop or plate it is supposed to go against? I just did a Suzuki and all the bearings, in one way of another had stops or a plate they would go against to locate them. Do any of them look crooked?

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Looking at from the outside against the seal I can see it is a little bit crooked actually. Tried pounding it a little bit to no avail. I don't know what you mean by stop plates. It just gets seated into the pocket. 

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Reheat and see if you can get bearings to fall back out or the heat might be enough to be able to knock the bearing home with a punch on the outer race 

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10 hours ago, motorboatinjesus said:

Looking at from the outside against the seal I can see it is a little bit crooked actually. Tried pounding it a little bit to no avail. I don't know what you mean by stop plates. It just gets seated into the pocket. 

The Suzuki I just did has a metal plate screwed to the outside of the bearing area so you just make sure the bearing is flush with the aluminum case, then screw the steel plate on the case.  As rob said, I did have one go in crooked (trans bearing, not main bearing) and could NOT get it straight so back in the oven and started over.  2nd. time it worked OK.

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13 hours ago, motoxvet said:

The Suzuki I just did has a metal plate screwed to the outside of the bearing area so you just make sure the bearing is flush with the aluminum case, then screw the steel plate on the case.  As rob said, I did have one go in crooked (trans bearing, not main bearing) and could NOT get it straight so back in the oven and started over.  2nd. time it worked OK.

Oh okay yes I have those two plates as well. Just an update, I reheated it, got the bearing out. Found a small piece of gasket in the bearing seat. Removed it, dropped in the frozen bearing and thought all was well. Tried to mate up the halves and its the same issue. If you take a look at the picture I attached, that collar on very end of the shaft does hit the bearing. If I remove that shaft collar it mates up perfect. So I took the shaft apart, made sure to follow the manual, and reinstalled everything... No dice.

 

When I mate up the halves with the trans installed there is about 2-3 MM of play on the transmission side, and if I torque it down it locks up. Not sure where to go from here...

Trans shaft.JPG

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Is it THAT shaft, the one with that spacer on the end that's actually locking it up?  So that's the spacer you can leave out and it seems OK?  

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3 hours ago, motoxvet said:

Is it THAT shaft, the one with that spacer on the end that's actually locking it up?  So that's the spacer you can leave out and it seems OK?  

Correct. Through trial and error leaving just one shaft in I can confirm it is this shaft or bearing causing the issue. 

 

And yes if I take out that collar it does not lock up, however that gear now doesn't work obviously. 

 

Any ideas? Part of me still thinks the bearing is still seated slightly crooked. Would getting it pressed in at a shop be more efficient than hot and cold?

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Did you take that gear set apart?  Looking at the Suzuki I just worked on, the  cross section drawing of the whole gearset - GEEZ - I'm glad I didn't have to take it apart.  Lots of spacer, clips, snap rings, etc.  So that spacer on the end - Are you SURE it goes there?  I know it's easy to get things mixed up if you happened to tip the case and gears and parts start dumping out.  I don't think it would matter if a shop pressed it in BUT, do you have the old bearing?  If you have some kind of a depth gauge, like a calipers that can measure depth, you should be able to measure the width of the bearing,  measure the depth of the stop or whatever limits the bearing in its place and see for sure by measuring that the bearing is in all the way or not.  You may have to take the bearing out again to confirm that one measurement of the "stop".

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They were all zip tied together, so no I never took them apart. However I printed off the manual for the bike and looking at the exploded diagram I carefully looked at every piece and it all looked good. 

 

It is really hard to tell, but with the case flipped over and looking at the inner race of the bearing against the seal, one side has a slightly larger gap. If the bearing truly isnt seated properly, what can I do differently to get it in there?

 

Case heated to 350 degrees, and bearing in freezer overnight. It dropped right in, and tapped it along the outer race a few times before letting it cool and no luck. 

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Maybe it would help to have a shop try to press it in straight all the way.  There should be no difference in the space from one side to the other.  If you just put that shaft in the questionable bearing, does the shaft look like it's sticking out a little crooked or does it look straight?  You heated up your cases a lot more than I do.  TT'er Grayracer, a VERY smart guy that used to work for GM said they didn't heat anything more than to 275 deg. at GM. for things like this. The ones I just did I tried at 200 deg. and the bearings right from the freezer and I probably could have used a little more heat - Maybe 250-ish.

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Thats what I was thinking.

 

I tried putting that shaft in just the questionable bearing and it was hard to tell if it was in crooked. I should have taken pictures of the measurements.

 

Thing is when I first started this process I initially tried at 200, bearings wouldnt come out. I went up to 250, then 300, and finally at 350 the bearings would fall out with a few taps of a rubber mallet.

 

Is it worth taking that case half to a shop and they can determine if the bearing is indeed crooked? 

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It may be worth it.  At least if you do, you'll know that's not an issue any more.  If you do, take the old bearing with in case they want to compare.  If I were in your position, I'd remove that one and have them just press  that one it.  They may or may not heat the case.

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31 minutes ago, MatthewMCRepair said:

Do you have the old bearing so that you can compare some dimensions? Are you using OEM bearings?

Unfortunately i was an idiot and threw out old the bearings. 

 

However I am using OEM, ordered part numbers through partzilla. 

Edited by motorboatinjesus

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1 hour ago, MatthewMCRepair said:

Do you have the dowel pins installed?

Yes sir, makes no difference 

 

Just took the case half to a engine rebuild shop, he inspected the bearing and case, couldnt find anything wrong but does see the bearing is in crooked. He wants to take a look at the transmission. This is a strange issue

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Alright I took some pictures hopefully they show up clear.

 

i used the magnifier on my iPhone. 

 

Can you guys guys see anything out of the ordinary with the bearing seat? On the last picture there is a very small burr that sticks out on the inner edge, and I can feel it with my finger nail. Other than that it is smooth

IMG_0874.JPG

IMG_0875.JPG

IMG_0876.PNG

IMG_0877.PNG

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Other than that little burr visible in the 3rd. pix, beyond that it's kind of hard to tell anything else.

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How come you're changing that bearings? Jw. I've done hundreds of engines and rarely see bad tranny bearings.  I also don't do the heat and cool method. I use 2lbs hamer and drive them in carefully. Can hear when they are seated. Bet you give that a wack and be ok. Sounds crude Ik but works. That bearing should be flush with the race. Also if you replaced the other ones make sure thier seated to. Without the crank in you can easily put together and take apart. 

Edited by Motox367

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