Oil change with and without filter

[Spud786]

2012+ 500's

 

I know a lot of people go a few oil changes on a filter , I do that too, especially with the oil holding up decently.

Now on the filter change ktm requires , to fill the oil cavity to lubricate the bottom end and prime the filter, and I always do that.

 

But I was thinking, if you are not replacing the filter, yet you drain the crank cavity , that's still going to be alittle dry initially. Normally not an issue for me, as I normaly refill and start the bike while its still pretty warm.

But a few weeks ago I drained oil (no filter ) change, and then did some other things and by the time I filled the bike will oil , the motor had already cooled, and noticed alittle clatter on start up.

This has me thinking maybe its not better to drain the crank cavity unless you are actually changing the filter. its only like 150cc of oil.  I did that this drain interval, and no odd noises.

 

Having 26,0000 plus miles, Ive changed the oil many times, draining the crank cavity without a filter prime,  but maybe its better not to, if not going to change the filter and prime the lower crank area?

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 23, 2017 by Spud786

[gitenby]

Thanks for the post Spud. My second oil change on the bike is coming up and I'm replacing the filter but then I'm going to change filter every other change.

From what you said I'll probably change oil as usual pull the filter out, add the oil and put the filter back in. No biggy for me but thanks for bringing that to my attention.

[caktm]

i just changed my oil and filter,and just put filter in dry and fill run it a little and top it off..

[gitenby]

Thoughts of air being pushed through oil pumps and bearings make me cringe even if it is momentary. When changing oil in a car or truck I always fill the filter can with oil prior to installing it. When I worked as an A&P I did the same.

I get the same feeling when someone starts an engine cold and revs the piss out of it  

[Airboss/oc]

why ? filters are cheap !

[gitenby]

1 hour ago, Airboss/oc said:

why ? filters are cheap !

Thread is not about the cost of filters but I don't need to throw money in the trash either. If you cut open and inspect your filter each time you may find you don't need to change it every 15hrs.

[LS1Steve]

2 hours ago, Airboss/oc said:

why ? filters are cheap !

Completely agree... $6-8 filter is NOT a lot of money to assure you're protecting your expensive bike. I change the paper filter every time and see NO reason not to.

Edited April 24, 2017 by LS1Steve

[Spud786]

This same type filter goes 4 to 8.000 miles in other bikes, but it all comes down to contaminate level. Ive never seen a ktm contaminated fliter on mine, or screens for that matter. The motor has been impressive cleanliness wise outside of the first oil change or 2, and especially once past 15 or 20,000 miles .

If I saw a need for the filter to be done every 15 hours, I would do it though. Not necessarily filter cost, more labor with me, cause I burn an oil change 1 or 2 per month, less work for me that's not needed.

 

[sirthumpalot]

I always run the bike before changing the oil, to make sure everything is lubricated.  A tiny bit might not drain out, but when you re-start it after the changing, all the bearings and friction parts should already have a good coat of oil on them since you just ran it.  So dry start up should be less of a problem than if you changed the oil on a bike that had been sitting for a few days.  I have no proof this makes a difference, but I do it anyway. ? 

[Earthmover]

Geneally if your concerned about dry-start after an oil change or after a long storage of the bike you can always take your spark plug wire out and give the engine some good 10-15 turns with the starter , wich will run the oil pumps without a load of idle RPM and fill your engine oil routs and surfaces and prime them before you connect it back and fire it up.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Earthmover

[Spud786]

Some may not know , but (atleast the newer 500's) have 3 drains, a crank drain and screen which holds about 150cc, the tranny drain and screen, which holds the bulk of the oil , and the main drain with magnet. Which if you drain the tranny drain first, the main drain will be empty, but main drain does have the magnet on it(so it needs to come out)..

I appreciate the thoughts, this was mainly about a routine oil change where you are not changing the filter. It was mentioned, you could just pull the old filter and prime the crank, which would be fine, but that defeats my labor reduction, Id just replace the filter in that case since already going to be in there.

IMO, just not draining the 150cc crank area, is the most simplistic way for a non oil filter oil change, to avoid the non primed crank area issue.   You are still changing 1.4 quarts of oil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[8675309]

I just drain magnet only when not replacing filter, since the screens are never very contaminated.

[Spud786]

The transmission drain is actually lower than the oil magnet drain on 2012+ models, so drains more oil, plus the main drain. I like draining the tranny first , cause its easier to line up the oil dump pan. the framing always gets in the way, doing the main magnet drain first, risking a sometimes mess.