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'17 FE501 Need keyed 12V for GPS

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I just got my new '17 501FE.  I gave some first impressions in a different post so I will not repeat.  Short story is I need a good soyrce of KEYED 12V for my GPS hookup (by keyed I mean it turns off when the key is in the off position). I need someone smarter that I to interpret that wiring diagram...  I have the service manual and printed the schematic.  I can't make much of it -- I am very good at wiring diagrams and have added keyed 12V to many other bikes but this one has me stumped.  The ignition switch on and off positions don;t seem like they take 12V and connect to anything - I think I have heard elsewhere that the ignition switch can be entirely removed and two wires connected or one connected to ground to make it a "regular, non-keyed dirt bike (an explanation of that would be great).  It seems like this bike lets the ECU control everything and that there is no easy 12V for accessories available, per-se (I hope I am wrong).  As part of a desperate experiment (I was running out of time before riding), I took my VOM and probed the wiring harness behind the headlight looking for a hot wire when the bike was running.  The strange thing is that many were hot but only periodically!!  I would plug my GPS into them and it would power up but then every 10 seconds or so say power was lost only to have it return a few seconds later!! Sure enough, if I measured any of these potential wires with my VOM they would show 13 of so volts for a while and then drop to zero for anywhere from .3 to 1 second before returning back to 13v.  Very strange behavior and they were all sort of doing this.  I did not haul out the oscilloscope to see detailed behavior but I am willing to do that...  I presumably was tapped into something in the ECU.  Ok, so that was some bad science and I am willing to move from the errors of my ways with your help.  If you can provide insight (along with location on the wiring diagram and wire color) of where I might find reliable 12V when the bike is running, I would be grateful.  Please don't say "just hook it to the battery with a switch - that is not my style or the solution I am looking for).  Presumably others have interest in getting keyed power for their goodies too.

Thanks for your constructive responses.

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I used power from the daytime running light wires to power grip heaters and gps

daytime running light is the little bulb located in the headlight reflector below the big bulb

 

Edited by xr650street

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5 hours ago, xr650street said:

I used power from the daytime running light wires to power grip heaters and gps

daytime running light is the little bulb located in the headlight reflector below the big bulb

 

Thanks for the idea but I have a complication.  I have the aftermarket headlight switch (sickass?) that shuts off the lights completely (normally I leave them off).  I the off position the daytime running light is off.  I will check to see if I can figure out where that light's power source comes from to see if I can tap into it.

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23 minutes ago, crazybrother said:

Find any of the Orange colored wires and you can use that. It's switched power.

@crazybrother - ok, I will do that and let you know - many thanks!

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Or you can pull power right off the key switch , 12 volts runs through it.

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12 hours ago, Spud786 said:

Or you can pull power right off the key switch , 12 volts runs through it.

12V may appear to run to it but AFTER the bike is started, the 12V "goes" away (meaning with a meter you will no longer see it (I verified this with my VOM)).  I think the system is some kind of grounded "on" setup.  I know you can remove the key switch entirely and plug in the "always on" jumper.  This implies to me that the 12V is not a true battery 12V but some very low current line coming from the computer.

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I run my permanent voltmeter off the incoming key connection, that's were the alternate jumper connector can be plugged for key removal. not sure how many amps can be pulled off that 12v line. Probably wouldn't run a compressor off of it. 

 

its been a while since I installed it, I ran the ground to the frame. But its the 12 volt line that turns on once the key is on, in that connector cluster the key switch plugs into.

Edited by Spud786

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On 4/27/2017 at 3:26 PM, scott taggart said:

@crazybrother - ok, I will do that and let you know - many thanks!

Hey fellow husky/ktm experts. I am still trying to find a reliable and stable 12V supply for my GPS on my '17 501FE.  I tried the orange wire as suggested by crazybrother and still experience the same problem as with all other wires that, at first attempt (as measured with a VOM) appear to be 12V.  The issues is that my garmin keeps cycling between powered on and "power-lost" every few seconds.  I suspected some kind of transient voltage even though this was hard to see on my VOM.  Today I hooked up the oscilloscope and found the ugly mess shown in the picture.  It appears that that about every .7 seconds (700ms) the voltage drops from 14.1 to 8V (with a funny little spike in that drop too).  The drop lasts about .35 S (350 millisconds).  This voltage spiking is very regular and must be part of the normal ECU junk.  I am going to probe some other wires but as usual, I am open to any and all ideas.  Starting to lean toward a simple wire directly from the battery and a manual switch.

MWSnap245 2017-05-04, 11_04_43.jpg

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PROBLEM SOLVED!!!  In my post where I show the power cycling between 14 and 8v (oscilloscope picture), I traced it down to the fact that the orange wire I was tapped into is plugged into the turn signal relay!! So, even when the turn signals are off my aftermarket relay continues to cycle.  The misleading thing about my goose chase is that KTM reused the orange wire for the turn signal relay circuit (see P. 4, K20 of the '17 US 501FE circuit).  So, me being an assumptive type guy found an orange wire at the front of the bike, tapped into it and saw the cycling voltage.  Why HTML chose to reuse the orange colored wire in this small sub-circuit is beyond me.

After a little probing around I found a nice reliable power source in the YELLOW-BLUE wire.  This comes off the light relay and is fused so that's good too.

Anyway, thanks for the ideas and help and be careful about assuming the orange wire is the one you are looking for...

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1 hour ago, Sigma Pi said:

damn! I wish I had a oscilloscope 

@Sigma Pi I am not a hardware guy myself (software) but having a scope around is certainly very handy for some stuff.  The one I have is a standalone unit that costs about $350 new (probably a lot cheaper used): https://www.amazon.com/Atten-ADS1102CAL-Oscilloscope-Channels-Sampling/dp/B0055B4JKG/ref=lp_3539688011_1_1?srs=3539688011&ie=UTF8&qid=1494003856&sr=8-1

There are also ones that plug into your PC's USB port that are very nice  and cost a fraction of the standalong units but of course require you to drag your PC or portable to wherever you want to take a measurement (i.e., the garage, etc.).  See here for example: https://www.amazon.com/Hantek-HT6022BE20Mhz-Digital-Oscilloscope-Bandwidth/dp/B009H4AYII

And, of course, there's unlimited new and used on fleabay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xoscilliscope.TRS0&_nkw=oscilliscope&_sacat=0

Finding the problem with my wiring mistake  on the FE501 was not possible without a scope.  Of course had I paid better attention to the wiring and schematic I would have never had a problem in the first place!!

Good luck!

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I have no clue on software, its all witchcraft to me.   I have a decent multi meter, not even good. :(  I would like a Fluke. 

 

I like the youtube channel Electroboom .  Pretty entertaining.  

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I had the same issue on a keyed source.  Until I started checking the headlight wiring harness while installing squadron headlight from  Baja Designs and found that the white wire from the bike’s wiring harness is not used in their setup which is hot whenever the key is on.  Problem solved. Using the white pin for the GPS.  One of my riding partners is an electrical engineer, checked out the load on the light circuit which has a 10 amp fuse, and it works.

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