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First ride on 2017 250RR

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I found the suspension to be very harsh,can I expect it to soften up and get more compliant?

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2016 RR RE
Oem forks were Motocross valved.
Got a pair of regular 300 RR forks, the gold ones.
WAY better.
Paid $500 on eBay.
My red Sachs would hit a wall of compression at about the 6" travel mark. Never saw it go below that. Crazy harsh in front and rear was WAY undersprung.
Went to a 5.6 on the rear.
Now it's sorted...

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Double check to make sure your forks aren't tweaked on the pinch bolts. Do the fork alignment method (loosen pinch bolts on the axel opposite of the break side and compress the forks as far as you can a couple times then tighten back up)

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I'm small and slow by race standards.  I struggled with my 2016 for a while.  First ride I could barely keep it on the trail.  It was just harsh.  Seemed like the high speed damping was way too hard (mostly front but rear too).  I changed springs front and rear, set the sag according to recommendations, played with fork oil, adjust clickers, tried to wait for "break-in".  It improved a little but I eventually had the suspension professionally tuned.  I should have done that after the first ride.  Well worth the small investment and avoiding a lot of frustration.

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Make sure it's aligned correctly, break it in and change the oil. Reevaluate and spring / revalve to suit. There is no way a set of OCs will be better overall. You can always make a CC fork softer. What you can't do is make an OC fork as consistent and stable in dampening over a range of speeds. The last two weekends we spent a lot of time testing suspension setups on my Beta with CC KYBs and my brother's Husky with OC KYBs. I got the OCs pretty good, but you eventually get to the point of speed / terrain where the oil is all foamed up and unpredictability starts. The CCs, even valved significantly stiffer, do not do this. They are firm and consistent and do not deflect. What I'm also finding out is the raised rear makes the fork work even better. Since doing so I have gone stiffer on both ends and the bike is amazing. Take the time to set up CC forks. The Beta 250 motor is great, like it better than the 300. Good luck.

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Thx for the replies, before I rode the bike I stripped it,greased it all so pretty confident forks are in correct,the bike is a std version (gold forks). I went from a 300 to a 250 as over a 4 hour tight wood race the 300 wears me down, the 250 motor is easily as usable without being too much. I had KYB on the 300 and they were very good and the faster you went the better they got,but they went with the 300 as I'd sold the original Marzoks.so I have to start fresh with the legs on this bike. I have 7 hours on the bike now when should I change the oil hours wise? The main problem was deflecting off roots and feeling like its locking up on hard compressions. I've ridden other OC forked bikes that would have coped better that's why I wondered if they need some time to break in

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Change the oil now. The factory uses some heavy weight oil. Go for the lightest fork oil like a 2.5W. Lower the oil height until you use the full travel indicated by marking the leg at the bottom with a dry erase marker and see if it wipes it all. I ended up removing about 2 oz. each side. Spring for your weight if needed on both ends in case you are too deep into the travel at rest. As mentioned above do not over tighten the lower triple clamps. 

 Check your chassis balance. I would run the forks up as far as you can (probably 2 lines) and crank the rear spring tighter until you are under 100mm sag. Tighten up the steering head bearings to stop deflection. Get the tires down to about 10 psi. Get the handlebars forward to get more weight over the front.

 I have been very pleased with my OC Sachs for a variety of uses. 

Edited by Johnny Depp

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13 hours ago, MeCH_MaN said:

2016 RR RE
Oem forks were Motocross valved.
Got a pair of regular 300 RR forks, the gold ones.
WAY better.
Paid $500 on eBay.
My red Sachs would hit a wall of compression at about the 6" travel mark. Never saw it go below that. Crazy harsh in front and rear was WAY undersprung.
Went to a 5.6 on the rear.
Now it's sorted...

If you used that $500 to set-up the CC forks you would have been much farther ahead.

 

5 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

Change the oil now. The factory uses some heavy weight oil. Go for the lightest fork oil like a 2.5W. Lower the oil height until you use the full travel indicated by marking the leg at the bottom with a dry erase marker and see if it wipes it all. I ended up removing about 2 oz. each side. Spring for your weight if needed on both ends.

 Check you chassis balance. I would run the forks up as far as you can (probably 2 lines) and crank the rear spring tighter until you are under 100mm sag.  Tighten up the steering head bearings to stop deflection. Get the tires down to about 10 psi. Get the handlebars forward to get more weight over the front.

 I have been very pleased with my OC Sachs for a variety of uses. 

2.5wt oil in the forks seems a little light for stock Beta OC forks. If you need to go this route, I suspect something else is wrong.

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Generally, compared to CC forks, spring OCs a little stiffer, with a little more preload, and add rebound.  This seems to work well on the KYB 48 OCs keeping them up in the stroke.  Make sure you know what the true issue is though.  Sometimes a rebound issue can be mistaken for a compression issue, especially with OC forks.  Also, especially on uphills, the light front doesn't help matters.  Once the shock is lengthened things fall right into place.

Yeah, I rode mine as a 300 for 4 years.  Liked it, but I was never totally comfortable.  Started pulling immediately off idle, too hard,  then spun up on the slow side because you were in taller gear to control it.   250 just seems a lot more natural, plenty off the bottom but not too much, and you can ride it on the pipe a lot more than the 300.  The lack of instant on torque makes it feel lighter in the turns as well.  A better race (and fun) motor for sure IMO. 

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1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

Lower the oil height until you use the full travel indicated by marking the leg at the bottom with a dry erase marker and see if it wipes it all. I

The outer tunes don't wipe the entire length of the lower when *bottomed*.

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Mine do or within a few millimeters. They come close enough to compact sand into the seals. I don't rebuild them like you do, but I can't imagine the dampening rod could withstand those kind of forces?

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Once again thx I'm 187lb/85kg in my jocks,I just read it's a 5.2 in the rear I thought std was a 5.4 so I might be needing heavier springs,I'll drop the oil,I totally agree with GP comments on the 300 engine delivery,perfect for trail riding and fast stuff but trying to make pace in the slow stuff it gets too much,250 feels better,I raced this weekend and beat my buddies on their 300's so I know it's the right choice

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I'm 155lb without gear so my springs are very soft compared to most.  BUT, I had exactly the same impression as you about deflecting off things and the damping seeming like it just became rock solid under some circumstances.  I tried Redline Extra Light, marked as 2.5 wt but very low viscosity if you look it up on the chart.  What that did was make the overall damping very wallowy and the deflection problem was still there.  My tuner drastically improved the deflection problem (although not 100% eliminated) and eliminated the wallowy feel the lightweight oil caused.  He used 5wt oil, not sure what brand.

I don't race though so my input may be irrelevant.

Cheers.

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5 hours ago, GP said:

Generally, compared to CC forks, spring OCs a little stiffer, with a little more preload, and add rebound.  This seems to work well on the KYB 48 OCs keeping them up in the stroke.  Make sure you know what the true issue is though.  Sometimes a rebound issue can be mistaken for a compression issue, especially with OC forks.  Also, especially on uphills, the light front doesn't help matters.  Once the shock is lengthened things fall right into place.

Yeah, I rode mine as a 300 for 4 years.  Liked it, but I was never totally comfortable.  Started pulling immediately off idle, too hard,  then spun up on the slow side because you were in taller gear to control it.   250 just seems a lot more natural, plenty off the bottom but not too much, and you can ride it on the pipe a lot more than the 300.  The lack of instant on torque makes it feel lighter in the turns as well.  A better race (and fun) motor for sure IMO. 

Excellent post. :thumbsup:

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21 hours ago, Retromlc said:

Thx for the replies, before I rode the bike I stripped it,greased it all so pretty confident forks are in correct,the bike is a std version (gold forks). I went from a 300 to a 250 as over a 4 hour tight wood race the 300 wears me down, the 250 motor is easily as usable without being too much. I had KYB on the 300 and they were very good and the faster you went the better they got,but they went with the 300 as I'd sold the original Marzoks.so I have to start fresh with the legs on this bike. I have 7 hours on the bike now when should I change the oil hours wise? The main problem was deflecting off roots and feeling like its locking up on hard compressions. I've ridden other OC forked bikes that would have coped better that's why I wondered if they need some time to break in

Try lowering the oil height first (10cc at a time) to see if you can get more travel before hitting the 'wall'.

 

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The springs are way too soft for you.  I'm only a few lbs lighter and run a 5.6/.45 (in KYB SSS) combo.   For starters, you should do 5.6/.46 with 6mm on the fork springs.  Likely your riding way down in the travel with no reserve when you hit a square edge.  

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For all you guys not happy with stock valving, let me tell you Steve from Plus One Performance valved the forks on my 17 390 Race and they are absolutely incredible.  My bike is plush in the rocks/roots and yet can still hammer whoops, drops and jumps.  Comparing it side by side with a stock 17 Race edition the difference is night and day better.  His prices are VERY reasonable and is the best thing you'll ever do to your bike. 

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