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snow bikes.. who has experience with them? wanting to buy one

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I want one.  really really, REALLY bad!!!

 

been out on the sled a few times for the first time this winter, but seeing where those snowbikes go, oh man. I need one.

so im looking into buying one this summer, for next winter.

my main question... 2 stroke or 4 stroke for this type of application?

how does the power feel/compare on each to a bike or sled?  the bikes FLY in the summer, where they belong, and the sleds are even faster than the bikes in the winter, where they belong..... but watching snowbike videos.. they just seem like it robs a lot of power. doesnt move nearly as much snow, or as violently as a sled.  kinda worries me.  I like deep and steep. 

 

im considering a 2016 or newer crf450.. im a crf master. with the timbersled.  not sure what length though.

 

OR a ktm 300 2 stroke.  ran into a guy with one sledding last weekend, he was riding solo and having a blast.  everyone seems to run 4 strokes though?  can they handle being pinned WFO all day long in 3 feet of fresh powder?

possibly even a ktm 525 if 4 stroke is the way to go. but I have no idea.

 

 

 

IMG_0661.png

 

I mean.. who can say no to these.   the price tag is a bit rough, but the fun you can have in the mountains... priceless.  you guys gotta try it if you never have.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile/edmonton/ktm-timbersled-snow-bike/1260114284?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile/calgary/2017-yz450fx-with-2017-timbersled-137/1246498454?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Edited by cdf450
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I like the look of them as well but I am alarmed by the number of new (ish) builds I see for sale. Really great products are usually hard to find on the used market. Owners--what's up?

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My guess is that ultimately, sleds are more fun and better in the snow. I don't think dirtbikes have the stones to run uphill in deep snow. Now, I've seen a couple of gsxr based builds...

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1 hour ago, filterx said:

When you get here in the fall, come up to Squamish and I will introduce you to Steve at No Limits and Chris at OTP for the best PNW options.

 

I will do!! would be nice to talk to someone who owns one. I dont know anyone close friends that have one.

 

a cr500 is a possibility... dont see that too often though.  when youre 25km deep in the backcountry in 3+ of snow... reliability of your machine is the most important thing.  second is not getting tired and worn out/exhausted from the damn machine.  so that kinda scares me.   those 500s are hard on stuff.. especially once you start adding high comp pistons, big bores, etc...

 

mikea2 you have a very good point.  some guys ride them a few times and get bored.  alberta has LOTS of that... oil patch money.  I mean... I just did it with the ski doo summit I just bought.  used it 7 times.  now I want something else.  I will say this though.... I truly believe and dont think theyre selling them because theyre boring, OR because they wrecked them and forsee them blowing up in the near future, which is the reason why people sell 80% of the time.

 

winter sports are a different breed... theyre tough, expensive, long days, etc..

Edited by cdf450

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21 hours ago, cdf450 said:

 

I will do!! would be nice to talk to someone who owns one. I dont know anyone close friends that have one.

 

a cr500 is a possibility... dont see that too often though.  when youre 25km deep in the backcountry in 3+ of snow... reliability of your machine is the most important thing.  second is not getting tired and worn out/exhausted from the damn machine.  so that kinda scares me.   those 500s are hard on stuff.. especially once you start adding high comp pistons, big bores, etc...

 

mikea2 you have a very good point.  some guys ride them a few times and get bored.  alberta has LOTS of that... oil patch money.  I mean... I just did it with the ski doo summit I just bought.  used it 7 times.  now I want something else.  I will say this though.... I truly believe and dont think theyre selling them because theyre boring, OR because they wrecked them and forsee them blowing up in the near future, which is the reason why people sell 80% of the time.

 

winter sports are a different breed... theyre tough, expensive, long days, etc..

I'm guessing there about 5 or so local guys on them with different bike etc set ups.

OTP was carrying timbersled but switched to camso. https://camso.co/en/products-solutions/atv-utv/products/dts-129

No Limits is carrying yeti but I might be mistaken.

IMO both shops will give you honest input on bike/set-up and might even get to try a demo :)

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Yeah I need to do a lot of research. What to avoid. What to look for. Long or short. Was hoping for those answers here but doesn't seem like many here ride them.

Leaning towards a ktm or crf 4 stroke with timber sled long track. But I honesty have no idea. Got all summer to figure it out though !

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On 5/2/2017 at 8:03 PM, cdf450 said:

I want one.  really really, REALLY bad!!!

 

been out on the sled a few times for the first time this winter, but seeing where those snowbikes go, oh man. I need one.

so im looking into buying one this summer, for next winter.

my main question... 2 stroke or 4 stroke for this type of application?

how does the power feel/compare on each to a bike or sled?  the bikes FLY in the summer, where they belong, and the sleds are even faster than the bikes in the winter, where they belong..... but watching snowbike videos.. they just seem like it robs a lot of power. doesnt move nearly as much snow, or as violently as a sled.  kinda worries me.  I like deep and steep. 

 

im considering a 2016 or newer crf450.. im a crf master. with the timbersled.  not sure what length though.

 

OR a ktm 300 2 stroke.  ran into a guy with one sledding last weekend, he was riding solo and having a blast.  everyone seems to run 4 strokes though?  can they handle being pinned WFO all day long in 3 feet of fresh powder?

possibly even a ktm 525 if 4 stroke is the way to go. but I have no idea.

 

 

 

IMG_0661.png

 

I mean.. who can say no to these.   the price tag is a bit rough, but the fun you can have in the mountains... priceless.  you guys gotta try it if you never have.

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile/edmonton/ktm-timbersled-snow-bike/1260114284?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-snowmobile/calgary/2017-yz450fx-with-2017-timbersled-137/1246498454?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

 

2 stroke or 4?  I prefer a fuel injected 450 mx bike.  Easiest to set up and get to run consistently.  Shield the motor from the snow, thermostat and temp sensor, intake and you're done.  No need to mess with carb heat, jetting, etc.

They are for sure down on power compared to a bike in the dirt or a sled.  If you're hoping to go climb hills then don't bother with a snowbike.  If you like to explore ridgelines and tight treed areas where no-one have ever been in the snow before - then you'll have the time of your life on one.  You have to be adventurous and go places you never thought possible to really understand how much fun they can be.

I've ridden 300 2 strokes in the snow, a 450 will destroy them.  500's work ok when you don't have carb icing or jetting problems (those days are rare).

I've never seen a 525, 530, 500, 501 or any of those type of bikes work worth a darn.  The transmission isn't the best for snow use and the rev limit is way to low.  Seems like you're just getting going and they're hitting the rev limiter.

I prefer the short tracks by a mile over the long tracks.  If you can swing it, look at the new ARO from timbersled.  It's on another level handling wise from everything else out there.

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That is awesome. The end of your second paragraph just made waiting so much harder!!!

 

I went and bought one. I must have posted it somewhere else and not hereIMG_2437.thumb.jpg.44d499b745ec501cbb403695f32a9cdb.jpgIMG_2436.thumb.jpg.da6c97912242dd9100968bd73994b4ee.jpg. It's a 13 Ktm 450 with a thumper racing 520 big bore on it. 14 hours. 2017 yeti 129 with every upgrade available. All ti and carbon fibre.

 

 

2013 ktm 450

Brewsters west 520 top end (pump gas) $2000

Yeti snow intake $150

Bazzazz fuel controller 600

Full pro circuit exhaust $1100

Brewsters pipe guard $225

Brand new black plastics 300

Seat concepts seat 350

Larger capacity fuel tank 450

Led headlight 100

Handle bar risers 125

Handwarmers 75

Larger 16cell light weight lithium ion battery 375

Carbon fiber tube guards 125

Fork socks 40

Hand guards 300

Custom wrap 400

Switch plate 100

Custom coating 1000

Upgraded yeti kit 12900

Yeti wheel kit 300

Yeti fuel can 300

Rear cargo rack 300

Rad guards 300

Skid plate 250

New rads 400

14 hrs on new build, 40hrs on bottom end.

Total cost to build. $35,000 ish Canadian

 

 

 

 

Those guys said snow shields aren't needed. I'll have to try em and see for myself I guess.

 

That aro kit does look pretty badass. I couldn't say no to what I got. They have been involved in snow bikes since day one. They work for yeti and are involved in the r and d of them. They said they've tried everything. Turboed. Big bored. Two stroke. Four stroke. Long track, short track. Every combo possible. Naturally aspirated big bore is the best they figured. Built two identical bikes as mine. Yeti 129 and yeti 120. Said you couldn't notice a single difference

 

 

Holy shit am I ever excited for snow haha!!!

 

 

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Awesome setup.  I don't see a temp gauge or thermostat on your list though.  IMO knowing your motor temps is the most critical part of making your bike run right.  The fuel controller can limit over-fueling for you but you still need to get that motor up to a proper operating temp to avoid failures.

I'd recommend at least getting a trail tech TTO temp sensor and monitoring it.  If you're not running 150-200 degrees at all times then you need to do something about it.

Yeti, Timbersled, MotoTrax, etc.  will not tell you this because if they don't want to be responsible for any motor failures caused by using their product.

 

Congrats on the new ride. :thumbsup:

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7 hours ago, Darvo said:

Awesome setup.  I don't see a temp gauge or thermostat on your list though.  IMO knowing your motor temps is the most critical part of making your bike run right.  The fuel controller can limit over-fueling for you but you still need to get that motor up to a proper operating temp to avoid failures.

I'd recommend at least getting a trail tech TTO temp sensor and monitoring it.  If you're not running 150-200 degrees at all times then you need to do something about it.

Yeti, Timbersled, MotoTrax, etc.  will not tell you this because if they don't want to be responsible for any motor failures caused by using their product.

 

Congrats on the new ride. :thumbsup:

 

true, I dont see that on the list either.  ive ordered a temp gauge rad cap, and factory effex stickers.   I think im also going to order two of the trailtech TTO water temp (I want water temp right?) for both my summer and winter bike.

 

these guys I bought it off seemed to have no expense spared, and have tried everything, so its kind of interesting that they never did a thermo bob or anything after 40 hours on these bikes.

 

they only sold them because yeti is giving them two 2018 skids.  one guy is gonna throw it on a 2017 crf450rx, the other is going suzuki!!!   my bike has electric start ONLY.  kinda scary.. especially because KTM are known to have junk starters dont they?

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I'd install a thermobob if I were you.

I had the same bike a few years ago, no issues with the starter on mine or any that I've been around.  Get a good battery, keep it charged and carry a jump pack just in case especially since you have handwarmers - seems like they're always the cause of a dead battery.

 

Here's my 450sx that also had way too much invested. :ride:

20160122_201038[1].jpg

20160122_201323[1].jpg

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damn!! thats a nice one too!!  why the hell arent dirtbikes that flashy and nice?!  I guess thats what 30k+ gets ya!

 

so, im gonna order a thermo bob... this is what I need??:  https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1436/50023/Watt-Man-Thermo-Bob-2

 

im also gonna order these.. one for each bike.   1.8 bar or 2.0 bar for KTMs?    https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/917/61141/Tusk-High-Pressure-Radiator-Cap-with-Temperature-Gauge

 

and im also gonna order a trail tech inline temp sensor for each bike too.

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On 8/25/2017 at 6:39 PM, cdf450 said:

damn!! thats a nice one too!!  why the hell arent dirtbikes that flashy and nice?!  I guess thats what 30k+ gets ya!

 

so, im gonna order a thermo bob... this is what I need??:  https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/1436/50023/Watt-Man-Thermo-Bob-2

 

im also gonna order these.. one for each bike.   1.8 bar or 2.0 bar for KTMs?    https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/917/61141/Tusk-High-Pressure-Radiator-Cap-with-Temperature-Gauge

 

and im also gonna order a trail tech inline temp sensor for each bike too.

That's an older version, seems he's constantly improving them.  Here is a link to the newest one:  http://shop.watt-man.com/Thermo-Bob-4-for-KTM450-SX-F-XC-F-plus-Husky-FC450-13-15-TB4-KT4A.htm

 

It looks more compact which is good.

I don't see much need for a high pressure cap, and that temp reading will be pretty much useless when your thermostat is closed.

We all run the trail tech TTO, it's nice because it screws right into the thermobob.  This is the one with the probe for the thermobob: http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gauges/tto/surface-mount/743-es2

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Wow. Awesome post. Good thing I havnt ordered yet!!! Thanks a lot. im gonna pick your brain a bit here now haha.


What do you for oil changes? T6 synthetic in the engine? changed every single ride.

Plain ol rotella t4 in the clutch? (what I've used for 10 years. And what rekuse even recommends)

A buddy tried telling me there's three oil filters. Is that true?

I'm probably just gonna order a 6 or 12 pack of filters

you find your stock gas tank is big enough?

 

I asked about those engine side shields when I bough this.. they laughed.  said you dont need em/it doesnt do much.  is that true? these guys seem to know what they were talking about.   what do you figure?  I mean.. you have them for a reason.

Air filter never needs to get touched eh?

 

can those front wheels (I have the yeti wheel kit) actually be used to trail ride up to the snow, at the end of the season when the first few km are just mud and dirt??

bigger pegs are an absoulte must or what?

 

that little side port is there the TTO would tie into?  seems like its prone to get broke sticking way out the side like that? 

 

image.png

 

where did you mount your TTO unit?  ive got a little custom switch panel up front, but not sure if theres any room on it. 

 

 

heres some pics from the shop that was involved in the building of mine.  the ktm is a big bore 520 and is turboed!  the honda is a cr500 big bored to 600.

 

12645167_1047041782024461_72802797083763

12662693_1048863571842282_77176875786787

12717702_1051044658290840_35183133581042

14333152_1207847752610529_38576986772410

15439978_1302946556433981_41615750614476

15542154_1309035095825127_42028710259628


Thanks again for the info and tips. Gonna get this thing perfect for winter, which is hopefully very very soon!!!

Edited by cdf450
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What do you for oil changes? T6 synthetic in the engine? changed every single ride.

- I used to do it every ride, but once you figure out how to keep and maintain proper temperatures you'll find that it isn't needed.  I got tired of draining out oil that looked brand new, so I switched to every other or every third ride depending on conditions.  I use T6.

 

Plain ol rotella t4 in the clutch? (what I've used for 10 years. And what rekuse even recommends)

- You'll find that your KTM only has one oil compartment.  I've never had any issues with T6 and a Rekluse.  I have had issues with the plain Rotella (white jug) being too thick on cold mornings.  That was on a RMZ, it would be a pain to start and then would push oil out the crankcase breather because it was soooo thick.  Switched to T6 and the bike was easy to start.

 

A buddy tried telling me there's three oil filters. Is that true?

- Just one oil filter and 2 screens I believe.

 

you find your stock gas tank is big enough?

-Yep stock tank with the gas on the tunnel is more than enough for a day as long as you're not running cold and over-fueling.

 

I asked about those engine side shields when I bough this.. they laughed.  said you dont need em/it doesnt do much.  is that true? these guys seem to know what they were talking about.   what do you figure?  I mean.. you have them for a reason.

-Going way back here.  Had a 2-moto kit and one of the first timbersled kits built.  We ran our bikes stock and ran them hard.  They would be so cold on powder days and over-fueling to the point that there was so much gas in our oil that it would start to push out around the dipstick (on honda's).  Our bikes ran like turds, black suit all over the rear fenders from being so rich from being cold.  Motors and radiators were solid blocks of ice by the end of a day.  Lots of research let us to installing KTM thermostats (I called thermobob, they had no interest in building thermostats for us at the time) and temp sensors.  What we found was shocking - we were literally running our bikes wide open all day at about 60 degrees water temp.  KTM thermostats helped but not much.  So we approached a local guy who builds plastic skid plates to build us a much bigger one to keep snow off of our motors.  That was a big help for us not only getting temps up but keeping them up higher on downhills.  Now it's much better with thermobobs, but I think a snowshield of some sort is still needed.  At very least a full coverage plastic skid plate. 

 

can those front wheels (I have the yeti wheel kit) actually be used to trail ride up to the snow, at the end of the season when the first few km are just mud and dirt??

- I've never used wheel to get to the snow, usually just ride though the dirt/gravel with the ski and replace carbides as needed.  Wheel kits are too expensive for me to leave lying along the side of the road.

 

Air filter never needs to get touched eh?

- I clean or replace the pre-filter from time to time.  The get grimy and loose the ability to shed water after a while.

 

bigger pegs are an absoulte must or what?

- Love my PMB adventure pegs.  Less icing up and they give you a lot more feel and control. 

 

that little side port is there the TTO would tie into?  seems like its prone to get broke sticking way out the side like that? 

- Yep.  There isn't much that sticks out on the sensor, just tie the wire out of the way as quickly as you can.  It'll be tucked in behind the radiator far enough that you won't catch it.

where did you mount your TTO unit?  ive got a little custom switch panel up front, but not sure if theres any room on it

- I've tried several locations.  Last year I went with fastway handgaurds that required the bar pad to be removed so I mounted it with some p-clamps right between the bar mounts.  I had a voyager on the ktm with a mount that I built.

 

I've seen their work around, they do a good job not sure why they don't worry themselves with keeping their bike warm in the snow.  I'm actually in that first picture I think!  I've been around snowbikes since the first 2-moto and have gained a ton of knowledge and am happy to help.  Snowbikes are fun, but take a little work to get them setup right.

 

20160314_182043[1].jpg

20170305_181714[1].jpg

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Definitely liking the excitement in this thread!!

I snowchecked the 2018 Timbersled ARO 120 LE last May. I'll be putting it on a 2017 crf250rx! Haven't bought the bike yet and my kit hasn't come in yet either. I like the 2017 rx over the 2018 because they ditched the kick start on the 2018.

What is everyone using for grip heaters?

What LED's are people going with?

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