standard Carburetors Vs modern Fuel Injection -Thoughts?!?!?

[xxcody2gunsxx]

Just a rant  really. Been dealing with fuel injection for 5 years now . Recently acquired a 08 rmz250 with the FCR carburetor and  After a day of cleaning jets ,adjusting the AP and getting it to work correctly  and getting jetting correct ,I do NOT miss the old days of dealing with this crap . 
 anybody find any benefits running one or the other ? 
Myself ? I'll take fuel injection any day of the week 

Edited May 11, 2017 by xxcody2gunsxx

[William1]

FI is better except when it fails, you have no diagnostic equipment or spare parts, ten miles off road. With a carb, you can 99% of the time, make it work well enough to get you out. The same problems were prevalent when CDI's first came out and in a few years, it was perfected. Two problems bikes have is the lack of a battery on MX bikes for stable power (though that appears to be changing with LiFe batteries and E-Start). The second issue is fuel pumps, To work, they need to be kept cool. Bike fuel gets hot (location and small quantity) and people run the tank down, which causes the pumps to over heat often and suffer premature failure.

I am so well versed with nearly every carb ever made that I find them to be simple durable tools, like a pair of pliers or a hammer and not a electronic digital torque wrench.

[xxcody2gunsxx]

Some strong points William . with my exp . with FI is...  tip over ? not a problem . jetting? not a  problem . Flooding with fuel ? not a problem . Now from what i read in the manual  there are some  fail safe situations regarding the  modern rmz450 that I have to get  back if there's any Serious electronic and somewhat mild mechanical failures that would occur .  I dont see a Standard  Carb giving to much trouble when out and about for to long trip assuming I did the prep work IE Jetting ,clean etc . 

Edited May 11, 2017 by xxcody2gunsxx

[William1]

Tip over is the saving grace of FI. No way to accomplish the same thing with a carb. This and emissions, have been the real imputes for FI to come to dirt bikes. Cost is still significantly above that of carbs and power consumption (read less power to the rear wheel) is a complaint. Instant A/F change ability is a huge plus. A great mechanic cam swap out a needle and main in ten minutes, with FI, a new map can be up loaded in 30 seconds. That and tha map be perfect at all rpm/load points, something that is not possible with a carb. A few more years, FI will be on all 4S and most 2S bikes. It will also be dead reliable.

[2strokebrapp]

Tip over is the saving grace of FI. No way to accomplish the same thing with a carb. This and emissions, have been the real imputes for FI to come to dirt bikes. Cost is still significantly above that of carbs and power consumption (read less power to the rear wheel) is a complaint. Instant A/F change ability is a huge plus. A great mechanic cam swap out a needle and main in ten minutes, with FI, a new map can be up loaded in 30 seconds. That and tha map be perfect at all rpm/load points, something that is not possible with a carb. A few more years, FI will be on all 4S and most 2S bikes. It will also be dead reliable.

One of the things that make a 2t is it's light weight so one downfall to having a fuel injected 2t is the added weight it will bring with it with only marginal power difference. I could be wrong and it could completely change the game but I don't see it making a big impact in the world of mx but once it's perfected the reliability will be welcomed by trail riders.

[Flagstaff]

I was one, like William, that could always get home with a carb. and found them mostly trouble free.

But...

I've never had an issue with fuel injection. 

Ever.

On anything.

[thetinkerer]

I'll keep carburated bikes only in garage. When FI's fail, it gets expensive and might as well either replace the whole system or buy a new bike.

I have always been able to fix my bikes and have rarely had issues with carbs. People tell me I'm stuck in the past, I see a bike and just like to ride it. Fuel injected or Carbed, I don't care.

[William1]

I've never had FI issues with any cars, my first being a fully mechanical setup on a Maserati Sebring, it was a 1966 (IIRC) six cylinder, dual plug engine. Always ran like a champ.

My next foray into FI was with a BMW 2002 Tii, again, never a FI issue. Then a Volvo 242GT, a perfected system with a five wire A/F sensor. Though I did hear some horror stories about the system on the Volvo V6 engines and all the US car makers cheap attempts at FI when they first tried to do it. Eventually they succumbed to what Bosch had been saying all along, individual injectors at each port, a proper method of measuring intake air and no Rube Goldberg devices to compensate for design shortfalls. Bikes are using time tested parts and designs. I imagine we will see LiFe batteries (four AA sized ones, weighing an ounce) on all FI systems to smooth out electrical power and perhaps 'smart stators' (alternators actually) to gener ate only as much power as the system is actually consuming on the electrical end and fuel pumps engineered to not have to be submersed in fuel to be kept cool (or perhaps a small in inline sub tank for the pump always filled with fuel and with heat radiating ability)

[LandLubber]

I am in the planning stages of a TAT run. We are doing the whole thing in one shot. I have been trying to decide on riding the 525 or buying a modern duel sport. 

Setting the 525 up for this is very simple and a well trod path. Oil cooler, electric fan, big tank, comfortable seat and some 50/50 DOT tires. 

One reason I was thinking of upgrading to a modern bike was elevation changes. I may have to re jet my carb along the way. EFI no problem. 

After much consideration though I have decided to go with the 525. I can do any carb work on the trail with simple tools. I can carry any jets needed and a rebuild kit very easily. If the EFI has a problem then I am screwed. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Bobatsea

[SenorThumpy]

Before I bought a EFI bike I was slightly hesitant even though I'm pretty well versed in late model GM V8 EFI & Megasquirt stand alone EFI. Dirt bike EFI is still in its infancy compared to car EFI which is what concerned me. I decided to pull the trigger on my husky about a year and a half ago and I haven't had one single issue, hiccup, hesitation or stutter with it. Tuning is just plug and play and super easy, especially if you're just dealing with premade maps and shit.

Overall, I think EFI is generally more user friendly and generally more reliable. Its basically set it and forget it, maintenance is super simple and almost non existent, tuning is super easy to a point. The exceptions to that statement would be when modifying a bike beyond the typical mods for a given bike that already have premade proven maps. While it seems like the failure rate and field issue rate of EFI is significantly less than that of carbs, when EFI does fail its going to really suck. And before the carb junkies try to fight me, I will say that I think the higher field issue and failure rate of carbs are due to improper maintenance, jetting...etc. user based issues, not that carbs are inherently unreliable or anything like that. I think we all know that the people who actually maintain their shit correctly are the minority. 

[Cascão]

For modern 4T, carbs get too complicated and sometimes never work 100%. EFI is a good thing

For 2T, carbs are stupid symple and work very very well. So, EFI isn't a big upgrade. Maybe DI will be a real advantage.

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Cascão
issues with foregin language :)

[RawbW]

I've never had enough problems with carbs to sway me from them, neither bikes or my old Volkswagen. Never had a starting issue, flood issue, however a multi port injected vehicle flooded on me once, and only once. Backwards right? I'm sure there's some power being left on the table since my carbs aren't tuned to perfection with an o2 sensor or anything, but il never lose a race or anything because of one. I'd lose a race from lack of talent. On 2 strokes they start if they've been tipped over, killed, whatever. 4 strokes a bit pickier but eh, not that bad. I'm not against fuel injection, but for awhile il be with carbs.

[EmpireofDerp]

I was one, like William, that could always get home with a carb. and found them mostly trouble free.
But...
I've never had an issue with fuel injection. 
Ever.
On anything.

^^^^ oh man, THIS is what asking for trouble looks like! [emoji106]

[SlowDinoDog]

One man's "dealing with crap" tuning carburetors is another man's hobby. Without doing the work, one never realizes the great feeling of accomplishment you get when you are blasting around on a great running machine and you know you did the work.

[ThrustWasher]

I love carbed bikes.

[highmarker]

4 stroke Fi more prone to cough stall at low rpm riding than a carb with good ap setup.  Big tank option can be limited for FI. 

[ThrustWasher]

For modern 4T, carbs get too complicated and sometimes never work 100%. EFI is a good thing
For 2T, carbs are stupid symple and work very very well. So, EFI isn't a big upgrade. Maybe DI will be a real advantage.
 

Carbs are entirely uncomplicated and extremely easy to work on with either platform.

[FORMA MOTO]

Everything is Everything, and this thread is pointless

[xxcody2gunsxx]

The point is that EFI squirts every other revolution where as a Carb squirts every one revolution . So carb is Dominant . Kids these days wont know the glory of old mechanical carbs due to EPA standards . 
Joking! 
 This thread was a rant really . EFI in every way is more pleasant to deal with . Having a couple FCR Carbureted Bikes and dealing with them, I was a bit frustrated and the saying "misery loves company" comes to mind .That is all .

[FORMA MOTO]

35 minutes ago, xxcody2gunsxx said:

The point is that EFI squirts every other revolution where as a Carb squirts every one revolution . So carb is Dominant . Kids these days wont know the glory of old mechanical carbs due to EPA standards . 
Joking! 
 This thread was a rant really . EFI in every way is more pleasant to deal with . Having a couple FCR Carbureted Bikes and dealing with them, I was a bit frustrated and the saying "misery loves company" comes to mind .That is all .

I was not aware the carbs, or throttle bodies, rotated....