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Baja HOOTER WAS RIGHT

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Baja Rambler Hooter  told me he had problems with 45/ 13/14/15 gearing. Correct again Baja  So I bought two new 45t for both my 230s. My Drum brake 230 15/45 gear perfect. When I went to put on 14t it is on last adjustment my swing arm already grinded out. I grinded it out more so the stop at end of adjuster can be used or just past it. Then did same on my 230 rear disk brake set up. If I should want to use the 13t. Then Let the mods start,I like the fact wheel all the way back. Because with the MT43 on my bike 15/48 do everything gear. Wheel is way forward. I'm thinking to use 13t if needed. Make longer metal plates inside swing arm that spacers run on. Grind out more of slot. Add more to snail adjuster to gain more rearward adj. Last of it is boxed swing arm,so there will not be much meat left in back. So since back sec of swing arm is solid chunk,would be easy to weld block back in to box swing arm. Will post pictures.

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I ground mine back until axle is .300" from rear of swing arm leaving a minimum cross section of 5/8" X .300" of aluminum.  I figure that's good for maybe 5,000 pounds of tensile strength.  The wear plates on inside of swingarm are nearly blown out at rear so I'm remaking those out of .090" stainless and will cantilever about 1/16" beyond rear of swingarm (originals are .081" thickness).  Screw spacing on those is 31mm o.c.  Snail adjusters will need material welded on to form about five or six additional notches, clamped together, and hand ground. 

I found changing one tooth on countershaft sprocket moves wheel about 1/8" or five to six clicks on snails.  

What we don't know, is how many clicks to allow for wear with modern o-ring chain and new steel sprockets.

We also don't know how many clicks of adjustment are required for one tooth on rear sprocket.  

Anyone?

 

.

Edited by Baja Rambler

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So here is Wheel back to last adjuster with 14/45 gear. The stop on snail adjuster can also be used for more chain adjustment. After swing arm grind.From where I had wheel almost all the way up in swing arm. This is over 1in back bike feels better with great big MT 43 tire. At this point I dont think I care to ext it like the Goats bike,like it where it is.59152689e2377_IMG_20170511_142714276Chainslot.jpg.ad16d175c5adf7d0e05793faeec3fa85.jpg

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It looks like there's room to drill a hole for an additional pin for the snail adjuster to index on.  There's no need to mod the snail.  Drill 2/3 of the way through swingarm and glue steel pin in hole with super glue.  To remove, heat pin and pull out with pliers.  The location of the hole needs to be the same on both sides so a simple jig is recommended.  This could be a block of wood pre-drilled then clamped in place.

BTR, if you decide to extend swingarm further by welding on an extension at rear of slot, you may then need to fill in front of slot with weld metal (creating a heat affected zone at a critical location) to be able to relocate pin-----or mod snail.  

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Thank you Baja Hoot. I will only grind out more swing arm more and weld box plate to rear. So if ever want to use 13t on rear. No need to weld block front of swing arm slot. I will call uncial Mike today to ask him best way to mount new pin moved back. As to not weaken swing arm. This is great Idea Hooter so then I dont need mod Snail Adj plate. As I will never want to use forward adjusters again. So far my brake rod is long enough and brake stay engagement. Also my Disk brake rear 230 also has enough brake hose,bake bracket to swing arm engagement. Baja could you make illustration for the guys of possible ext piece to weld on swing arm? I dont know how to do this.   

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Drawing on piece of paper then photograph drawing.

or charcoal drawing on rock, then take picture.

Edited by Baja Rambler
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On 5/11/2017 at 0:25 PM, Baja Rambler said:

I ground mine back until axle is .300" from rear of swing arm leaving a minimum cross section of 5/8" X .300" of aluminum.  I figure that's good for maybe 5,000 pounds of tensile strength.  The wear plates on inside of swingarm are nearly blown out at rear so I'm remaking those out of .090" stainless and will cantilever about 1/16" beyond rear of swingarm (originals are .081" thickness).  Screw spacing on those is 31mm o.c.  Snail adjusters will need material welded on to form about five or six additional notches, clamped together, and hand ground. 

I found changing one tooth on countershaft sprocket moves wheel about 1/8" or five to six clicks on snails.  

What we don't know, is how many clicks to allow for wear with modern o-ring chain and new steel sprockets.

We also don't know how many clicks of adjustment are required for one tooth on rear sprocket.  

Anyone?

 

You should make the plate like the XRs use; the lower tab extends beyond the end of the SA with a small ramp at the end. It allows you to slide the axle out of the SA slot and hold it in place while you remove the chain, caliper, spacers, etc. Also make install the wheel easier because set it on the extensions and then fuss with the other stuff. The following diagrams are 02 XR250R but other XRs are similar. #3 & 4KCE4F2100A.gif

You also need #20; it hooks on the right pin and prevents the wheel from sliding out of the SA slot.

KCE4F1300E.gif

 

17 hours ago, bajatrailrider said:

So here is Wheel back to last adjuster with 14/45 gear. The stop on snail adjuster can also be used for more chain adjustment. After swing arm grind.From where I had wheel almost all the way up in swing arm. This is over 1in back bike feels better with great big MT 43 tire. At this point I dont think I care to ext it like the Goats bike,like it where it is.59152689e2377_IMG_20170511_142714276Chainslot.jpg.ad16d175c5adf7d0e05793faeec3fa85.jpg

Good idea; My Montesa uses two different pin locations for a wider adjustment range.

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We where thinking already to cut swing arm slot all the way back. Here is possible problem to make it XR like (xr250/400). The swing arm solid piece in back is not as big/strong as late Xr.Since I have those bikes here to measure. It maybe OK to just slot not box in,but not for my two bikes. Because there almost at the very end of swing arm.As it is my disk brake rear 230,the locating pin Rear caliper bracket only has little over 1/8in before it pops out swing arm. When I reinforce my swing arm I will still end up box it in like factory.Only because Im worry wort dont like cracks in swing arm. As soon as Baja hooter post picture of how we interned to reinforce swing arm would like your opinion. Or all of your opinions,we will also have master builder Uncial  Mikes  words on this mod.         

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4 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

Drawing on piece of paper then photograph drawing.

or charcoal drawing on rock, then take picture.

Waiting for baja hooter to do this. Mr. hi tec artist.

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30 minutes ago, bajatrailrider said:

Waiting for baja hooter to do this. Mr. hi tec artist.

Me draw on wall of man-cave with burnt end of spear handle then upload digital photo.  Uggh.

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Ok done Baja Hooter made his adjusting snail by welding more of the plate and notching. I did it another way I just took hard bolt same size as pin on swing arm, for snail adjuster. Wire welded it on back side of factory pin. So my adjuster was on number 46 last adjustment. With pin moved back that small amount now I'm on number 34 mark Perfect. Will post picture later.

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I can now go to #50 on snails after welding and carving.  I ended up welding the two together so I could trial fit them while fine tuning notches.  Then sawed weld off.  That assured an identical match between the two.  I'm working on zinc plating the snails.  So far, i think, too much current.  Sample slightly burned rainbow color on lower half. 

Wear plates are stainless so don't need plating.  They cantilever about a 3/16" beyond end of swinger. Photo shows stock on left new on right center overlapped.  They're a half ounce heavier.

The Rambler

snails&wearplates0995.jpg

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Wheelbase now measures 54 3/4" with new chain 14/45 and stock forks.  A 13t will move it back another 1/8".  I'm not sure if I have much adjustment for chain/sprocket wear with 13t so may need to switch to 46t later.  New Pirelli has 7/8" clearance at front of swingarm with 14t.  Bike sits pretty tall with MT-43 tire but feet still flat on ground.

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4 hours ago, VortecCPI said:

Do any of you have a Trail Tech Vapor or equivalent that records maximum speed during a ride?

No but all the other riders I ride with have them. That's when they informed me The girlie bike was doing 80mph down dirt road. I cant believe I was that stupid to run that speed it wont happen again.  We ride at less then walking speed after hours of tight trail, feels good to get to a road.

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2 hours ago, bajatrailrider said:

No but all the other riders I ride with have them. That's when they informed me The girlie bike was doing 80mph down dirt road. I cant believe I was that stupid to run that speed it wont happen again.  We ride at less then walking speed after hours of tight trail, feels good to get to a road.

80 MPH with this little chassis?  That must have been a VERY uncomfortable feeling!  Obviously that little totker engine of your is doing its job pretty darn good!

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7 minutes ago, Chuck. said:

I have a Vapor and they do record max speed and RPM, I also used GPS to record max speeds.   Vapor records a lot of good info:

 

Now that I think of it, my 60csx records this data and much more.

80 on a 230 sounds like the fish that got away, Needle.  Maybe you should go up a tooth on your rear sprocket..

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21 hours ago, VortecCPI said:

80 MPH with this little chassis?  That must have been a VERY uncomfortable feeling!  Obviously that little totker engine of your is doing its job pretty darn good!

It did not feel bad at speed with Cr fork and fox shock,Now with wheel back over 1in even better. Im wondering if Trail Tec Vapor is reliable reading speed,as I cant see myself going that fast.My old post was. Riding with here with buddy on KTM 450 (My gas tank sticker CRF150) He said thats no 150 when you let off throttle you where still going 75mph. Then other KTM 450 rider said mini bike doing over 80mph. With stroker motor 15/48 gear,it over whelms,runs out of gear  instantly. Now it has for easy rides 15/45 same deal top ends 6th gear nowhere near full throttle. That is including Tall trials tire, On pavement strong head wind uphill I do need shift to 5th gear. Main gearing now is 14/45 for trail,so far I see no need to run 13t on front. Big test this Fri to Sunday. Riding With Baja Hooters buddys most of them on 450s hard tight trail. I think Baja Hooters buddys are still reeling from last ride as little girl on 230 out climbed  Wr450/Wr250/ Xr650. When Baja Hooter gets here we have plan to out Climb his buddy on new Wr450.

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