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'03-'05 CRF150F engine parts discontinued??

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So I'm trying to have my '05 150F top and bottom end rebuilt-- which is fine. So I went to my local dealer and ordered all new bearings and seals (among other things) to put in the bottom end. Wanted to refresh the kickstart pinion parts while I was in there. Turns out that the parts are discontinued -- for a 12 year old bike that was a huge seller? Also two of the bearings in the bottom end. Any ideas? Here are the part numbers I need. None in the country in any warehouse. WTF are we supposed to do if we need these parts?   --L*64

91008-KCN-003      - bearing

91106-KB4-003      - bearing

28211-397-010      - kickstart pinion

28221-397-020      - kickstart part

Edited by luckystar64

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The two gears that break the easiest are still available from servicehonda.com

IMG_1638.JPG

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They show that they're available-- but on back order with no release date. What are the part numbers for those gears that like to break? If I can't get those bearings-- then what? --L*64

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5 minutes ago, luckystar64 said:

They show that they're available-- but on back order with no release date. What are the part numbers for those gears that like to break? If I can't get those bearings-- then what? --L*64

Just because there is no release date doesn't mean they won't come in. I've had that happen and whalla parts were in. Besides you may be able to get other bearings to fit however factory parts are usually best. 

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I ordered the bearings several years ago from discounthondaparts.  I still have them new in the parts bags. No, they're not for sale; they're going in my 250 motor.

The bearings are marked as follows:

91106-KB4-003 markings

NTN

NK 15x23x12

JAPAN

2U13111242

 

91008-KCN-003 markings

NTN

HKS 21x28x10

JAPAN

NS

 

If it turns out that discounthondaparts can't get the bearings, you should check local or online bearing supply businesses.

I have a call in to discounthondaparts to see what they have to say about availability....

:ride:

Edited by ramz
typo

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Adnohguy- I THINK that 29 T gear is the pinion gear. That's unavailable. I don't recognize that other part. Any idea what the part number is?  And Ramz-- I appreciate the heads up. That may be useful info. I'm thinking the bearings may be available at some point, just on permanent backorder for now?  --L*64

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I called discounthondaparts and the bearings are available NOW and are shipping from warehouse 41.

The 'tall' gear is GEAR, STARTER (19T)  23520-KPT-900 and is also available, from their regular warehouse 80.

The other gear is not shown as available on the discounthondaparts fiche.

 

I have never had problems ordering from discounthondaparts when the part is listed with a price.

:ride:

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The pinion gear is part number 28211-KPT-900 and has been superseded by part number 28211-397-010, which is available from cmsnl (Consolidated Motor Spares B.V., Netherlands) for 39.50 EUROS, plus shipping.

https://www.cmsnl.com/products/28211397010-pinion-kick-start_28211kpt900/#.WRtb9nA9_bM

https://www.cmsnl.com/products/pinion-kick-start_28211397010/#.WRtcdXA9_bM

 

Or from Canada for $50.59, plus shipping.  Don't know if that is Canadian dollars or USD.

https://www.bike-parts-honda.ca/honda-motorcycle/150-MOTO/CRF/2003/CRF150F3/Engine/KICK-STARTER-SPINDLE/91072/E_14/1/4614

 

That's all I got.

 

 

Oops, 1 more.

https://www.amazon.com/Honda-HONDA-28211-KPT-900-PINION-29T/dp/B00NO12WYO

:ride:

Edited by ramz
1 more

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Phew! So the bearings ARE available-- they came from the west coast warehouse. The parts guy at my local dealership gave me wrong info about the bearings. The kick start parts are NOT however. I DO have a Coeshow kick start gear set sitting here, but I was saving that setup for a different project. I can use them if push comes to shove at some point. On a stock motor-- they'd likely last forever. I'm going to try and get the discontinued parts from Canada and see if I can get them. Mostly just to have them on hand in the event that I need them at some point down the road.  --L*64

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Well....... add THIS to the discontinued list-- 96700-0611000 . It's a 6 X 110 engine bolt. This simple engine rebuild is turning into a nightmare with these discontinued parts. I tried to order three of these bolts, along with the discontinued kick start parts from the outfit listed above in the Netherlands. Haven't got an EM from them saying that they couldn't get the parts yet, so my fingers are crossed. We split the cases on my motor, and fortunately the issue is both 3rd gears-- the one on the main shaft, and the one on the counter shaft are both gnarled. The kick start pinion gear and the ratcheting parts are fine. I ordered the discontinued parts just to try and have them on hand in the event of some internal carnage. Like I said before-- I have some Mike Coe gears sitting here if it comes down to it. That way I'll be able to ride this bike until the end of time-- my time anyway! Or until somebody builds us something better. If one of you guys wants to match something up with the discontinued 6 X 110mm bolt-- it'd be one little step in the war against planned obsolescence by Honda.  --L*64

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Well....... add THIS to the discontinued list-- 96700-0611000 . It's a 6 X 110 engine bolt. This simple engine rebuild is turning into a nightmare with these discontinued parts. I tried to order three of these bolts, along with the discontinued kick start parts from the outfit listed above in the Netherlands. Haven't got an EM from them saying that they couldn't get the parts yet, so my fingers are crossed. We split the cases on my motor, and fortunately the issue is both 3rd gears-- the one on the main shaft, and the one on the counter shaft are both gnarled. The kick start pinion gear and the ratcheting parts are fine. I ordered the discontinued parts just to try and have them on hand in the event of some internal carnage. Like I said before-- I have some Mike Coe gears sitting here if it comes down to it. That way I'll be able to ride this bike until the end of time-- my time anyway! Or until somebody builds us something better. If one of you guys wants to match something up with the discontinued 6 X 110mm bolt-- it'd be one little step in the war against planned obsolescence by Honda.  --L*64


Both 3rd gear, main and counter are the first to go when the counter shaft bearing in the clutch case gets loose in the case. If it's not press fit any more, it will happen again. Once you put in the Coe gear set it Doubles the speed of the loosening process.

Electric start conversion using all required 230f parts (EBay) will stop the process from getting worse if the bearing is tight in the case, otherwise, once it's loose, it will continue to get worse, much more slowly, but eventually.

IMG_2365.JPG

I'm on my third set of cases.

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I'm actually replacing both cases, the crank, both third gears, all the bearings, all the seals, the cylinder, piston and rings, cam chain, and all the clutch plates.... Hopefully I'll get another 600 hours out of it. If there isn't a better bike out there when this motor wears out again- I'll likely put a 230 engine in it. The 230 seems like it has a better tranny. I like the additional power and the 6th gear with the 230 lump.  Seems like the ratios are closer too.   --L*64

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Honda buys most of their bearings from NTN, most in a standard metric size so aftermarket bearings are available. All of the bearings are marked with the mfg and standard metric bearing size code so just take your bearings, and seals, to a local bearing supplier. Honda also lists the metric standard number, like 6006,  in the part fiche description.
Non standard sizes will still have the mfg markings but the size or fit will be non standard and  they will have a normal Honda part number like 91008-KCN-003 rather than a Honda standard part like

The 91008-KCN-003 is a 21mm needle bearing and they are usually readily available from local bearing suppliers but possibly not in the same width as Honda. On XR200s Honda sells the bearing as part of the case so expensive to obtain so I use a slightly narrower version with no problems.  Needle bearings are avail in two styles; shell type (with a rolled cup) and machined case. The first have a smaller OD for the same ID than the latter. Also used on the 03-08 CRF230F & the CRF230L.
91106-KB4-003 (15mm) is also used on the 03-08 Rebel 250 & the 06-08 CRF230F.
The years end at 08 because that is the last year for my Honda Xref database. 

The 21mm is for the shift drum and the 15mm is for the right end of the counter shaft and for the XR200s Honda sells the 15mm one as part of the right case, from my XR200 notes:
IDxODxW
21x28x10        Right Shift Drum: NTN  HKS  (drawn cup) shell bearing, non std.
15x23x12        Right Counter shaft Honda # 91016-360-006 (NTN NK 15x23x12, machined outer race)  used on 74-82 CR125 & 86-02 XR200R
15x21x12        Right Counter shaft NTN #NK15/16R (15x21x12) is a shell type (rolled cup) needle bearing.  Probably the same on earlier XRs, ATCs, etc. Available at local bearing suppliers.
15x21x16        Standard shell type ( rolled cup) . Available at local bearing suppliers
15x21x22        Standard shell type ( rolled cup) . Available at local bearing suppliers
 

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Well- I managed to get the unavailable here 29 tooth pinion gear, and (I ordered 3!) the discontinued here 110 mm bolts from the outfit in the Netherlands. Only thing they couldn't get was the ratcheting part. I just got the pinion gear and the bolts to have on hand. The ones in my bike are fine for now.  --L*64imageproxy.php?img=&key=b3312acf975e3c54

image.jpg

Edited by luckystar64

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