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2018 TPI 2-stroke in-depth look

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http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/2184-first-look-2018-ktm-250-300-exc-tpi-2-stroke-enduro

 

Dell'orto Injection, not mikuni. And other, stuff. 

Quote:

Utilising various sensor data such as intake and ambient air pressure, throttle valve position and water temperature, the control unit optimises ignition timing and the amount of fuel to inject. Automatic altitude and temperature compensation, eliminates the need for the rider or mechanic to set up the bike for the prevailing environmental conditions. 

Edited by 2strokenut
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The only bad thing about TPI is that we won't be seeing it at least not on the 300XC model until July of next year at the soonest. I want one now!!!!!!

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Oddly enough I spotted a post on Cycle News that said that Husky was going to have the 250 and the 300 FI models for '18, but only the 250 FI for KTM... ?  Wonder why?

I personally only need to see the price tag, I sold otherwise.

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I'm really not sure about the six days....I think I like it. We we

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Interesting but not excited about it in the least.  It's a government program. ;)

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as long as it lives up to the hype ill be buying one for sure in 2019 and retire my husky for supermoto use only .

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Honestly dont get the hype at all on this.  We will know more about it soon but the few ride reports I've read claim you cant tell the difference in performance between carb and FI.  

It weigh 6lbs more, most of it up high and that doenst include the extra 2s oils weight-also up high.  

Failure points galore.

Larger tanks are now a PITA to put on, and especially to go back an forth on.

Now 2s are about the same price as 4s.  

Lots of negative data points with very few positive ones.  I think guys just like new stuff to have what they think might be the latest and greatest.  KTM has this market mindset down to a science. ;) 

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It's a neat idea and I get why they are doing it. I like the oil injection and the extra weight does not really bother me. But I love the simple two strokes without all of these electronics to cause problems. I think people will defenitly buy this bike as fast as their hands can get on it. But for now I'll stick to good old fashion jetting and mixing gas.

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Some of you sound like old heads. FI has been around so long now and I have never in my life had an issue with FI on any bike or car. FI is as reliable as a rolex watch. Screw mixing gas and jetting, rather be riding and less wrenching. I'll get the second year so they can work out the bugs. Never buy first year anything.

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Some of you have your head in the sand if you havent heard of any FI failures.  While I do believe FI has an excellent record given the many failure points over a simple carb, they DO have problems.  I've said it a number of times and will continue to say it...in one ride we experienced 2 fuel pump failures.  About 4 months later another guy on that same ride lost a pump while racing.

A quick trip on other forums will show it does happen, mostly pumps but tip over sensors come up on occasion too, probably others sensors and critical do-dads as well.  Some guys carry spare pumps on rides, and that should be fun to replace on a trail. Others change their pump every 150 hours, which for most probably isnt a big deal.  Others see those hours in 6 months.  So that is a bit of wrenching right there.

Other wrenching is buying and/or maintaining the many filters FI needs to keep clean gas flowing through the injectors.  Speaking of injectors, they need to be cleaned as well on occasion and they also sell baja kits so you can bring a spare with you.  Not cheap.

And man o man if one calls jetting a couple of times a year and mixing gas hard work wrenching they just havent looked into FI.  lol

ONe thing FI is really good for is guys who routinely do major elevation change rides.  Of course lectron would probably be a better choice there too.

Another might be increased MPG over a conventional carb.  Of course lectron would probably be a better choice there too.

Another is just to giggle at tech that doesnt mean a whole lot and no one will be winning races or trail rides because they have FI on a 2s.  2s kill it now against 4s in offroad now against big bore FI 4s.  Anybody remember Russell running his 150sx against 450s?

Its a government program.  FI=Federal Injection. ;)  

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Everyone knows FI has been around for a while now... It's just never been in a ktm two stroke before. Once they get it dialed it's going to be sick no more bogging or jetting issues. Definitely would not buy a first gen model tho.

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You guys don't have to worry about this technology, it's been around for over five years now in our long term development YZ250 here in NZ. KTM's TPI injection is an exact copy of our YZ, injectors in the same position aiming the same way, firing in the B ports. This is third cylinder development for KTM, first starting off with Orbital DI then a Rotax port injection then finally this TPI. Interestingly this last development was commissioned after I released all my information on the internet. Good on them for running with it. I would just like to point out we have been running our YZ for years, trouble free. Interestingly my pre development of this TPI was done in my old F9 Bighorn Kawasaki around 2008, it's still running to in fact it just won it's class in vintage induro recently (don't tell them whats inside it). I love not having to #$%^ with carburetors any more! 

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12 hours ago, uniflow said:

You guys don't have to worry about this technology, it's been around for over five years now in our long term development YZ250 here in NZ. KTM's TPI injection is an exact copy of our YZ, injectors in the same position aiming the same way, firing in the B ports. This is third cylinder development for KTM, first starting off with Orbital DI then a Rotax port injection then finally this TPI. Interestingly this last development was commissioned after I released all my information on the internet. Good on them for running with it. I would just like to point out we have been running our YZ for years, trouble free. Interestingly my pre development of this TPI was done in my old F9 Bighorn Kawasaki around 2008, it's still running to in fact it just won it's class in vintage induro recently (don't tell them whats inside it). I love not having to #$%^ with carburetors any more! 

TSP, is that you?

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On 5/31/2017 at 6:06 PM, uniflow said:

You guys don't have to worry about this technology, it's been around for over five years now in our long term development YZ250 here in NZ. KTM's TPI injection is an exact copy of our YZ, injectors in the same position aiming the same way, firing in the B ports. This is third cylinder development for KTM, first starting off with Orbital DI then a Rotax port injection then finally this TPI. Interestingly this last development was commissioned after I released all my information on the internet. Good on them for running with it. I would just like to point out we have been running our YZ for years, trouble free. Interestingly my pre development of this TPI was done in my old F9 Bighorn Kawasaki around 2008, it's still running to in fact it just won it's class in vintage induro recently (don't tell them whats inside it). I love not having to #$%^ with carburetors any more! 

Are you saying the added components to make this work don't fragg on occasion?  

Are you saying that the simplicity of the 2s is still as simple?

How many hours on the same pump on your years of testing on the yz250?

Are you claiming you won your vintage class precisely because of FI?

No one wants this to work more then me.  Who wants to jet or work on bikes if they dont have to, but I just dont see a lot of gain out of FI to offset the pain.  When you hear comments from testers saying "if you were blindfolded and didnt know which bike you were riding (carb vs FI) you wouldnt know the difference".  That's not what I want to hear after dumping 4s costs, more failure points, and 6-9 more pounds and most of it up high.

Sounds like we're getting the government to pee on our heads and the forced manufacturer is calling it rain. ;)

 

 

Edited by Sycamore

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I could see the point of FI on the 4 strokes, as even messing with pilots, leak jets, AP timing, etc the FCR carbs were never perfect at low rpm and prone to stalling. 

That being said, I've never had any carb issues on my PWK equipped 2 strokes...I don't really see much of a benefit here except for making big government regulators happy. I ride at varying elevations and still don't have jetting issues...I would argue that fixing the crappy heads that come on most 2 strokes would better fix running issues than just going to FI

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On 6/5/2017 at 1:24 AM, Sycamore said:

Are you saying the added components to make this work don't fragg on occasion?  

Are you saying that the simplicity of the 2s is still as simple?

How many hours on the same pump on your years of testing on the yz250?

Are you claiming you won your vintage class precisely because of FI?

No one wants this to work more then me.  Who wants to jet or work on bikes if they dont have to, but I just dont see a lot of gain out of FI to offset the pain.  When you hear comments from testers saying "if you were blindfolded and didnt know which bike you were riding (carb vs FI) you wouldnt know the difference".  That's not what I want to hear after dumping 4s costs, more failure points, and 6-9 more pounds and most of it up high.

Sounds like we're getting the government to pee on our heads and the forced manufacturer is calling it rain. ;)

 

 

Yes the simplicity of the twostroke is still there. Perhaps its a bit like when manufactures changed to CDI from points, many weren't sure at the start.

On our YZ and the F9 there has been no pump change since the beginning and the F9 runs on E85! In fact the F9 has never been so reliable, ever. I'm not sure I can put that down to the EFI though. 

No, I could have won my class on an AG 100, just relaying the fact that the Kawasaki has been going (and competing) all these years running EFI, there have been a lot of EFI developments on the internet that seem to be shown off then disappear,  I have to say though unleashing that 50HP on the open forestry tracks is a lot of fun especially when a modern bike thinks it might like to pass.  

The weight does not need to be there, you don't need an electric start (heavier battery and start mechanism) , you only need a (very) small 12V battery and a Capacitor although you do need a decent charging system. I think in our YZ we added about one and a half Kg's.

Weight high up? Our battery and fuel pump is under the engine. The drum throttle body I manufactured weighed less that the carburetor it replaced (including the TPI) 

The only other issue is the oiler, KTM's being electronic, the way to go. Ours is a crude on /off solenoid, only operates after 60% power.  

But the oil problem is only a problem at the moment, I have two systems on my bench running 'oil less top ends' , there will be no need to burn oil soon. 

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