EMS & User Ignition Mapping - The True Story behind the claims?

[customfab]

I'm the proud owner of a 2016 XCF-W and am coming from a 2008 XC-F 450 and in the tight stuff a 2009 XCF-W 250.  Don't have her dialed in and prefer to have a bit more HP but seems like a nice stock bike.   So I'm in the process of updating the bike to fit my riding style and cosmetic desires.   As an engineer, I try to get pretty familiar with my bikes and always do all my own mods, maintenance and repairs/rebuilds.  EFI and ignition map tweaks are always of a lot of interest to the nerd in me.    But I get the sense that KTM has exaggerated things on that end.  

So I more than a bit confused regarding the options for more aggressive ignition mapping and hoping that more knowledgeable folks can help educate me.   I will say that I've ordered the FMF 4.1 full titanium exhaust, Grunt manifold and Model 1 TPS setting as a start.   Seems to be the most popular upgrade for power outside of a big bore kit.   But the TPS tool is a workaround at the end of the day.     

What's most confusing to me is KTM's own statements of:

"With an optional map-select switch from the Power Parts program, the EMS can allow the rider to select different engine characteristics. In addition, the optional User-Setting-Tool provides the ability to readout engine data with a laptop and change the ignition and injection mapping with just a few mouse clicks."

I'm getting a sense this may be bordering on false advertising from KTM.   I understand the User-Setting Tool itself has been discontinued by KTM (#69029096140) and that in order for it to work on our bikes that the ECU must be unlocked.  Worse, appears that dealers are not officially allowed modify ECUs any long.   The statements on KTM's website seems misleading and implies this is an easy plug, play and adjust ("...with just a few mouse clicks").   

So what's the true story and what, if any, options might us owners have here?   And maybe I'm just pissing in the wind on this one as the gains are minimal anyway?  

Second if KTM is advertising this but not providing the solutions to the end-customers, doesn't that seriously piss anyone off?     Don't get me wrong, I love KTM products.   

Thanks, Devin 

[customfab]

Oh, just for reference this was a very informative topic.   

Still doesn't explain why KTM is actively marketing this User Tool and the map select switch.  

 

[mog]

The map switch only plays with 2 different sets of ignition timing, I have read the ust doesn't work on the new bikes

[ScootMcGoot]

If you really want to be able to have control over the fuel table and the ignition map you will need an aftermarket ECU like a Vortex. My 350 has a 365 kit and a FMF 4.1 titanium system and I am using a Power Commander 5 to piggy back on the ECU and adjust the fuel table. This setup does not get me any control over ignition timing but the bike was dyno tuned to get the fuel table just right. I will say that is the crispiest bike I have ever owned. Starts perfect even in the super cold, never flames out and overall just runs awesome. You have to be careful with those aftermarket ECUs because I think it will allow you to add enough timing to do damage to the engine. They are also much more expensive than the Power Commander 5 setup.

 

 

[hrpufinstuff]

There are many fictional claims from KTM.    "Weight without fuel" for instance.  It's brilliant advertising but nobody ever calls them on it.

This is why we are called coolaid drinkers.  

 

[mog]

Mxa tested them all with the same fuel and the ktm is massively lighter, the 450 weighs less than most 250s

[hrpufinstuff]

KTM is getting better, I should say more honest.  I haven't seen anyone's scale match the 220.9 claimed weight without fuel.  But they're close enough.  Years past they were more than 10 pounds off.  Just like their 3.04 gallon fuel tanks on the xc's which turned out to be 2.6.  Call it an exaggeration but KTM has historically released specs in their own favor.  

It hasn't stopped me from owning one.    

 

[XRYoda]

4 hours ago, hrpufinstuff said:

KTM is getting better, I should say more honest.  I haven't seen anyone's scale match the 220.9 claimed weight without fuel.  But they're close enough.  Years past they were more than 10 pounds off.  Just like their 3.04 gallon fuel tanks on the xc's which turned out to be 2.6.  Call it an exaggeration but KTM has historically released specs in their own favor.  

It hasn't stopped me from owning one.    

 

MXA just weighed one, and the weight was 220.8 I think. 

[hrpufinstuff]

222 is what they report, Like I said close enough.  

I should've known better than to be critical of the all mighty orange bike on the KTM forum.  

Edited May 24, 2017 by hrpufinstuff

[redrider144]

On 5/17/2017 at 2:54 AM, mog said:

I have read the ust doesn't work on the new bikes

Awesome.  So I have a $500 electronic paperweight.  Thanks KTM!

Edited May 24, 2017 by redrider144

[mog]

New 4 strokes