2016 CRF or 2016 RMZ For Woods?

[hoov165x]

Trying to decide between the two.  The CRF is about $600 more.  Both are a real deal right now.  Money is not really a factor here, the ability of the bike in a technical offroad environment is.  51 year old (damn that is hard to type) former expert class offroad racer.  Terrain is Oregon coast range- rocky, rooty, steep.  Not concerned with the RMZ small fuel tank.  I already have a two stroke for the really technical days and I want a 4T in addition to add to the fun.  I have always converted MX bikes for this purpose.

Anyone with experience on both?

[mlatour]

Not sure what year CRF250R you are considering but eariler (up to '09 I think)

have a lot of interchangeable components with the CRF250X.

(heavy flywheel, lower 1st-2nd trans gears?, smaller bore carburetor, 18" wheel, softer suspension setting database etc.)

It could make life easier in converting an MX bike for woods with rather easy to find OEM parts/settings.

 

From my limited experience in from switching from a friend's CRF250R to my CRF250X,

riding if off-road conditions that sound similar to you, (but ridden in a recreational manner, not racing) the X is so much better suited. 

Again this was for low speed rock/woods crawling, not racing speeds. The R's tall 1st gear and rev-happy engine characteristics quickly become noticeable.

Edited May 19, 2017 by mlatour

[MikeID]

The X comes plush, and you can twist dials to slow down the suspension, but overall it will work better in trail rider mode in the areas around Trask, I'd think, just like mlatour says.  I have a 2015 R.  The R feels tighter, with stiffer suspension.  I've lightened up the damping a bit, but it is still stiffer and doesn't have the initial plushness of the X, which has a spring fork.  Both the RM-Z and the R have the air fork.  The initial stiffness doesn't bother me for the riding I do, but like you...I also have a 2 stroke for trail riding.  The R gets used to carve in tracks in the desert and I love the precise feel, quick turning, and immediate throttle response of the FI, *and* the stiff suspension for getting my moto on.  It's really cool to have both worlds to explore. 

But, if I were just in the woods, with a 4-T, the 250X is fantastic.  I loved my '09.

Between the 250R and the RM-Z, I can't help you that much.  I haven't ridden the RM-Z, though I had an '07 RM250 2T and it was amazing.  I think both a great.  I lean towards the Honda because of fit, finish, longevity, and I just think it's cool.  It may not be the fastest 250F, but it is a blast to ride and I can ride it as fast as I want to go.

[fredgreen]

Looked at the 2017 KTM 250 XC-F? 

[hoov165x]

9 hours ago, MikeID said:

The X comes plush, and you can twist dials to slow down the suspension, but overall it will work better in trail rider mode in the areas around Trask, I'd think, just like mlatour says.  I have a 2015 R.  The R feels tighter, with stiffer suspension.  I've lightened up the damping a bit, but it is still stiffer and doesn't have the initial plushness of the X, which has a spring fork.  Both the RM-Z and the R have the air fork.  The initial stiffness doesn't bother me for the riding I do, but like you...I also have a 2 stroke for trail riding.  The R gets used to carve in tracks in the desert and I love the precise feel, quick turning, and immediate throttle response of the FI, *and* the stiff suspension for getting my moto on.  It's really cool to have both worlds to explore. 

But, if I were just in the woods, with a 4-T, the 250X is fantastic.  I loved my '09.

Between the 250R and the RM-Z, I can't help you that much.  I haven't ridden the RM-Z, though I had an '07 RM250 2T and it was amazing.  I think both a great.  I lean towards the Honda because of fit, finish, longevity, and I just think it's cool.  It may not be the fastest 250F, but it is a blast to ride and I can ride it as fast as I want to go.

Thanks for the response. I had a 250x I used for scouting new trails, trail work, etc. I agree it's great for its intended purpose, but I eventually sold it as I can only justify keeping so many bikes..... and it was just too heavy.  I really prefer converting mxer's for my use. 

[hoov165x]

9 hours ago, fredgreen said:

Looked at the 2017 KTM 250 XC-F? 

Not a consideration as this isn't going to be a primary bike and I can't justify spending the extra  $$$ over the Honda/ Suzuki. There are smoking deals out there right now on the CRF and RMZ- thousands less than the KTM. I've had a ton of KTM/Husky bikes and after they screwed us with the 4CS fork I said never again. Too many years of crap suspension from the orange team.  Now it's crap carbs, crap reed valves/blocks, crap power valves with the new 2T's. KTM is the marketing King, but they are not the best bikes in my experience. 

[MXGuy34]

By personal experience , Owning 1 2011 RMZ'  and 2 CRF's  06 and a 17, and 2 09 KXF's, I will say the less reliable bike was the RMZ, I had transmission issues, overheating, electrical problems etc etc. the CRF's and KXF's  just the typical 4 strokes issues, top end and valve adjustments.

 

 

[ThrustWasher]

They both suck for woods riding, get the YZ250FX its a much better woods bike.

 

 

[Brad04]

11 hours ago, ThrustWasher said:

They both suck for woods riding, get the YZ250FX its a much better woods bike.

 

 

I disagree. Yz450fx would be tough for a woods bike. A wr250f or crf250x are my two top choices for tight woods riding, and the 450 for if you get wide open areas to just rip.  

[ThrustWasher]

6 hours ago, Brad04 said:

I disagree. Yz450fx would be tough for a woods bike. A wr250f or crf250x are my two top choices for tight woods riding, and the 450 for if you get wide open areas to just rip.  

The crf250x is a pathetic woods bike and the wr isn't much better! The YZ450FX was designed for woods/offroad riding/racing and has the right attributes for it. I rode the yz450fx last year up in michigans trails and its purely awesome! bike never stalled out going around deep mud holes and felt very controllable and balanced when i had it pinned down long straights. Besides the OP said he's a expert offroad racer, the 250s wouldn't be enough for him!

Edited May 31, 2017 by ThrustWasher

[Hans Schmid]

A 250FX would be ideal... But I would long take a Honda before a RMZ in the bush... 

34 minutes ago, ThrustWasher said:

The crf250x is a pathetic woods bike and the wr isn't much better! The YZ450FX was designed for woods/offroad riding/racing and has the right attributes for it. I rode the yz450fx last year up in michigans trails and its purely awesome! bike never stalled out going around deep mud holes and felt very controllable and balanced when i had it pinned down long straights. Besides the OP said he's a expert offroad racer, the 250s wouldn't be enough for him!

A 250f would be plenty... 

[mlatour]

I have a CRF250X and can honestly say in stock form it's not an ideal recreational trail bike but,

by adding a heavy flywheel and internally softening up the damping (forks & shock) it's transformed it quite nicely.

 

The last drawback I can find to it and that can't be easily fixed is the top heavy feeling / extra weight,

you don't really notice it when riding but when you loose balance it does make itself quite apparent.

 

'woods' riding is very subjective, to some like me it's purely recreational, bordering on 'trial' type climbing and crawling in rough rocky terrain,

to other it's fast single track including some WOT moments on forestry roads etc. (faster paced, more racing oriented).

Edited May 31, 2017 by mlatour

[Brad04]

3 hours ago, ThrustWasher said:

The crf250x is a pathetic woods bike and the wr isn't much better! The YZ450FX was designed for woods/offroad riding/racing and has the right attributes for it. I rode the yz450fx last year up in michigans trails and its purely awesome! bike never stalled out going around deep mud holes and felt very controllable and balanced when i had it pinned down long straights. Besides the OP said he's a expert offroad racer, the 250s wouldn't be enough for him!

It doesn't matter whether it's 'plenty for him'. 250 and 450 are both fast. The 250x hauls ass with my 230 lb self on it. The 450 is just a scary machine. I prefer the 250 because it's predictable. More mistakes happen with the 450. And your in Michigan woods of course the yz would be good there. Try the woods out here on a yz, and you'll understand where I come from. I can barely get traction with a 250, and the 450 is just way worst. 

 

Besides OP described the same terrain I ride. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Brad04

[Brad04]

3 hours ago, mlatour said:

I have a CRF250X and can honestly say in stock form it's not an ideal recreational trail bike but,

by adding a heavy flywheel and internally softening up the damping (forks & shock) it's transformed it quite nicely.

 

The last drawback I can find to it and that can't be easily fixed is the top heavy feeling / extra weight,

you don't really notice it when riding but when you loose balance it does make itself quite apparent.

 

'woods' riding is very subjective, to some like me it's purely recreational, bordering on 'trial' type climbing and crawling in rough rocky terrain,

to other it's fast single track including some WOT moments on forestry roads etc. (faster paced, more racing oriented).

I personally haven't noticed how heavy the bike is, until I have to pick it up off the ground. Losing balance isn't an issue long as I keep my speed going. Stand still is another story. Haha

[ThrustWasher]

A 250FX would be ideal... But I would long take a Honda before a RMZ in the bush... 
A 250f would be plenty... 

For you probably, for me not so much. Considering OP is a expert level woods racer a 450 is fine.

[ThrustWasher]

It doesn't matter whether it's 'plenty for him'. 250 and 450 are both fast. The 250x hauls ass with my 230 lb self on it. The 450 is just a scary machine. I prefer the 250 because it's predictable. More mistakes happen with the 450. And your in Michigan woods of course the yz would be good there. Try the woods out here on a yz, and you'll understand where I come from. I can barely get traction with a 250, and the 450 is just way worst. 
 
Besides OP described the same terrain I ride. 

250s are okay but you cannot compare YOUR riding abilities to other more advanced riders.

[Brad04]

8 minutes ago, ThrustWasher said:

250s are okay but you cannot compare YOUR riding abilities to other more advanced riders.

Been riding since I was a young one bud. 

[Hans Schmid]

30 minutes ago, ThrustWasher said:

For you probably, for me not so much. Considering OP is a expert level woods racer a 450 is fine.

I'm a Expert level woods racer and a 250f is fine... 

[shrubitup]

The recent models Honda CRF250R are said to be soft on the track but have great low end power and start well too...... seems like a good GNCC WORCS harescramble bike to me. I'd get the Honda. The $600 you spend now will come back at resale later. 

[shrubitup]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:13 AM, hoov165x said:

There are smoking deals out there right now on the CRF and RMZ- thousands less than the KTM. 

Do they have two CRFs available?