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Well have just run a desert race and my favourite single trail bush tracks , one ride a piece and are completely sold on the tubliss system. Over rocks, wet logs, nothing seems to phase it. I am an older rider on a WR450 and straight up am able to get through the bush considerably faster. Need to do more testing because in the desert it started to feel vague above 90mph, suspension settings seemed to help but I think higher front pressures would have helped, still early days. Bottom line, better than tubes. No idea against Mousse, never used them. Will update as I stuff around with them

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5 hours ago, Nitro380 said:

Well have just run a desert race and my favourite single trail bush tracks , one ride a piece and are completely sold on the tubliss system. Over rocks, wet logs, nothing seems to phase it. I am an older rider on a WR450 and straight up am able to get through the bush considerably faster. Need to do more testing because in the desert it started to feel vague above 90mph, suspension settings seemed to help but I think higher front pressures would have helped, still early days. Bottom line, better than tubes. No idea against Mousse, never used them. Will update as I stuff around with them

I carry a few 12g CO2 cartridges and the adapter in my pack so I can air up/down on the trail for exactly that reason. Depending on conditions I'll run 0-10 PSI in my rear but below 6 or 7 PSI is sketchy past 2nd gear (nevermind at 90mph) on the MT16 i'm running. Haul ass down the trail at like 8-10 psi, come up to a big gnarly hill climb or a super tech wet rocky rooted up section, dump all my air pressure except a couple PSI in the front, tractor thru the section, air back up and pin it to win it. 

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I carry a few 12g CO2 cartridges and the adapter in my pack so I can air up/down on the trail for exactly that reason. Depending on conditions I'll run 0-10 PSI in my rear but below 6 or 7 PSI is sketchy past 2nd gear (nevermind at 90mph) on the MT16 i'm running. Haul ass down the trail at like 8-10 psi, come up to a big gnarly hill climb or a super tech wet rocky rooted up section, dump all my air pressure except a couple PSI in the front, tractor thru the section, air back up and pin it to win it. 



You air up and down before and after different obstacles?

Dang, I wouldn't want to be on a trail ride with you, that sounds like a lot of waiting around even if you can do it in 30 sec.
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1 minute ago, woods-rider said:

 

 


You air up and down before and after different obstacles?

Dang, I wouldn't want to be on a trail ride with you, that sounds like a lot of waiting around even if you can do it in 30 sec.

 

 

Not individual obstacles, that'd be crazy. I air up or down based on the trail i'm riding. For example...My property abuts power lines so I leave my back yard at 10 psi and rip the power lines and a couple loops of easy trails then I take the power lines over a couple streets and creeks to get to the "good" riding, roughly a 4 mile dirt commute. I air down to 3 or 4 psi once I get to the head of a 6 miles loop of MTB single track thats all rooted up, usually wet with baby head rocks and a handful of vertical rock faces and short trials-esque hill climbs. When I come out of that loop back onto the power lines, I air back up for a few miles for 3rd-6th gear powerline ripping until I get to this long ass rocky hill climb that also has a bunch of loose stone. I air back down for that because its usually super dry and hard to get traction about half way up where you have to floater turn between two boulders. Get to the top of that, air up until I dive into another loop off the power lines or go home. There are a number of other loops in that area that are mostly MTB or hiking trails which are slow and much more enjoyable at next to 0 psi, if i'm going to stay in that forest area or i'm only going to be on the powerlines for a mile or less then i'll keep the air pressure low and just go easy, otherwise I want to let her rip. It also helps that I ride alone 99.5% of the time and don't have anyone else to think about other than myself. I do fuss with air pressure when i'm with a group but really only when we all stop, I don't interrupt the group. 

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IF your desert riding and start really early in the morning be careful of big changes in temperature.

The Tubliss inner chamber is pumped to 100 psi. If you start at 100 psi and close to freezing air temp and the sun later bakes the desert

make sure you check your inner chamber pressure. You don't want to be sneaking much over the 100 psi in the internal chamber.

 

 

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Tubliss formerly recommended 110 psi, which is what I ran mine at for over a year. PSI increase from 0 to 100 degrees is about 10 PSI, so should be no problem starting at 100 psi.

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IF your desert riding and start really early in the morning be careful of big changes in temperature.
The Tubliss inner chamber is pumped to 100 psi. If you start at 100 psi and close to freezing air temp and the sun later bakes the desert
make sure you check your inner chamber pressure. You don't want to be sneaking much over the 100 psi in the internal chamber.
 
 

I put 110-115 in mine before every ride, no problem. All track or hare scramble, but 120psi at the end of the ride and never an issue.

But... Tay being said better safe than sorry! If it is cold and you are miles from your truck, I'd start at 100 and never think twice.
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4 hours ago, CO MotoRider said:


I put 110-115 in mine before every ride, no problem. All track or hare scramble, but 120psi at the end of the ride and never an issue.

But... Tay being said better safe than sorry! If it is cold and you are miles from your truck, I'd start at 100 and never think twice.

I'm talking about days and locations with a really big temperature range. In death Valley CA I've gone from just below freezing at the start of a ride to 100 degrees. This can have a much bigger effect on your tire pressure than going from 100 psi to 120 psi. Many desert locations have a huge temperature range. The Mojavi is not quite as bad, but still a huge temperature range. 

I doubt you would have these temp ranges in Colorado in just a few hours...... but you certainly have some of the best trails in the world!

Edited by Fango
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I too just recently converted over to Tubliss on a new rear rim. I have ZERO complaints. I do however now have to do the front tire.. Not looking forward to it, but at least with the experience under my belt now I know exactly what is in store for me.

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4 hours ago, coalboy said:

I'm a trail rider, on a 2t..Thinking about going tubliss...what is the life expectancy??

According to Nuetech, "Tubliss system should outlast the bike."

They recommend replacing the inner bladder annually, but it's only $10. I actually don't know a single person who actually does this.

Edited by LSHD
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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:53 AM, Nitro380 said:

Well have just run a desert race and my favourite single trail bush tracks , one ride a piece and are completely sold on the tubliss system. Over rocks, wet logs, nothing seems to phase it. I am an older rider on a WR450 and straight up am able to get through the bush considerably faster. Need to do more testing because in the desert it started to feel vague above 90mph, suspension settings seemed to help but I think higher front pressures would have helped, still early days. Bottom line, better than tubes. No idea against Mousse, never used them. Will update as I stuff around with them

I had an experienced mechanic install TUbliss on my bike with a brand new tire, couldn't get it to hold air for more than 30 mins.  I threw the TUbliss TUtrashcan.  Got sick of flat tires, got mousses.

I was reticent to spend so much on mousses, but they last a really long time when you keep them greased.  Must use a lot of tire soap when installing them!  It's far easier to install, and the tire soap keeps the temperatures down so the mousse doesn't disintegrate.

A pro I know at the TX races used TUbliss for awhile, he liked them a lot.  But they can still go flat.  He got two flats in one race (one front, one back), so he had to run back to the truck at check-ins and race back to the test section to start on time.

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Your experienced mechanic did something wrong. Dirty rim? Who knows. It's not rocket science. Follow directions, Tubliss works.

But mouses also sound good to me. The main reasons I don't run them are non-adjustable air pressure and limited life (less than a year?).

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4 hours ago, LSHD said:

Your experienced mechanic did something wrong. Dirty rim? Who knows. It's not rocket science. Follow directions, Tubliss works.

But mouses also sound good to me. The main reasons I don't run them are non-adjustable air pressure and limited life (less than a year?).

Mousses are great, thats all I run, but yes like you said they do have their limits like not able to adjust the pressure. I'm on my 3rd season on my rear mousse and its still holding strong. I don't think they would do well in the desert as they don't like to get heated up. Tried first gen tubliss, never had any luck with them, kept getting punctures, both tire and inner tube punctures.

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Flats must depend on where you ride and how your ride. I haven't had a flat tire since around 1976. I've ridden dirt and street off and on since 1974. I keep my tires fairly new and am meticulous with checking air pressure. I'm amazed myself, as my friends have all had flats. I'm maybe a fast C rider, slow B, maybe. And we don't have a lot of rocks. Mostly sand or mud, winding trails or access roads. That could have a lot to do with it.

 

I still have mousse envy. Changing them looks easy (I have a Rabaconda). May still try one someday. If I were racing seriously I would definitely run mousse.

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13 hours ago, LovingOffroadPain said:

I had an experienced mechanic install TUbliss on my bike with a brand new tire, couldn't get it to hold air for more than 30 mins.  I threw the TUbliss TUtrashcan.  Got sick of flat tires, got mousses.

I was reticent to spend so much on mousses, but they last a really long time when you keep them greased.  Must use a lot of tire soap when installing them!  It's far easier to install, and the tire soap keeps the temperatures down so the mousse doesn't disintegrate.

A pro I know at the TX races used TUbliss for awhile, he liked them a lot.  But they can still go flat.  He got two flats in one race (one front, one back), so he had to run back to the truck at check-ins and race back to the test section to start on time.

Well I have changed lots of tires on and off my tubliss and have never had that problem once... Maybe the mechanic needs to pay attention to detail...   It's so simple it's stupid.  And you said it yourself "a pro I know" evidently he felt they had some merit... I doubt the Tubliss caused his flats without operator error...   

Would they be my first choice for racing, depends on the racing... Traction is amazing and tunable....  people make more than it should be about keeping them aired up...  If you ride with tubes and don't check your tire pressures along with a ton of other things before a ride well, I don't know what to say...  

They work and work well..  I have three times rode out 15-20 miles from remote areas on the tubliss when a tire got slashed by a rock. ..Several other times I simply put an atv plug in and a shot of CO2 and I'm off.. Sliced a tire bad last week and three plugs wouldn't  patch it, 15miles back to the truck trying toGot home threw a new tire on and was good to go...?  Did I mention traction?  Oh and a lot less front wheel replacements?

Edited by Nevada Al
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On May 22, 2017 at 6:58 PM, LSHD said:

Tubliss formerly recommended 110 psi, which is what I ran mine at for over a year. PSI increase from 0 to 100 degrees is about 10 PSI, so should be no problem starting at 100 psi.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but pressure increase due to temperature is very different in a high pressure tire than it is in a low pressure tire. I'm guessing your using the guesstimate that is used for standard car tires that run at much lower pressures than a tubeless inner chamber.

When the starting pressure is very high the effect of temperature increase is different.

Also if you go freezing point to 100+ degrees your also probably under direct sun and the tire is going to get significantly hotter than 100 degrees unless you are moving fast enough.

 

That said if your not riding in hot high deserts probably nothing to worry about, but if you go from freezing at 5am in the desert at say 600ft and then end up at 5,000 feet in 100 degree blasting sun it's worth making adjustments to both inner and outer air changers in a Tubeless setup.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Fango said:

Not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but pressure increase due to temperature is very different in a high pressure tire than it is in a low pressure tire. I'm guessing your using the guesstimate that is used for standard car tires that run at much lower pressures than a tubeless inner chamber.

When the starting pressure is very high the effect of temperature increase is different.

Also if you go freezing point to 100+ degrees your also probably under direct sun and the tire is going to get significantly hotter than 100 degrees unless you are moving fast enough.

 

That said if your not riding in hot high deserts probably nothing to worry about, but if you go from freezing at 5am in the desert at say 600ft and then end up at 5,000 feet in 100 degree blasting sun it's worth making adjustments to both inner and outer air changers in a Tubeless setup.

 

 

tire gauge.... I ride in the high desert almost everyday from 4000-10000 and have yet to go from 32f to 100f but if I did my pressures would be in tune from the afternoon before and just lower the next morning.. doubt there's 15% pressure difference anyway....Btw, wouldn't jetting in that situation be a much bigger concern?   If anything it's the other way around, valley floor is warm and top of 9-10k mountain is below freezing..   either way I've yet or have an issue in that regard.....Tubliss rocks..

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14 hours ago, LovingOffroadPain said:

I had an experienced mechanic install TUbliss on my bike with a brand new tire, couldn't get it to hold air for more than 30 mins.  I threw the TUbliss TUtrashcan.  Got sick of flat tires, got mousses.

I was reticent to spend so much on mousses, but they last a really long time when you keep them greased.  Must use a lot of tire soap when installing them!  It's far easier to install, and the tire soap keeps the temperatures down so the mousse doesn't disintegrate.

A pro I know at the TX races used TUbliss for awhile, he liked them a lot.  But they can still go flat.  He got two flats in one race (one front, one back), so he had to run back to the truck at check-ins and race back to the test section to start on time.

Some tires don't work to well with a tubeliss system. Some tires just have to much texture on the inside of the carcass. The tire needs to be relatively smooth where the inner (pink) tubebliss tire meets the inside of the main tires sidewall to make an air tight seal.

 

I don't like moose for several reasons, but most of all because it is not adjustable and a moose tire does not bounce as nicely as a pneumatic tire.

Here is a quote from a motorcycle magazine:

"As a final test, bounce a wheel with a mousse installed and then do the same with a standard, air-filled wheel. The one with a mousse tube will bounce much less. On a track, the wheel with the mousse gives a much deader feel when hitting bumps, rocks and square edges. "

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2 minutes ago, Nevada Al said:

tire gauge.... I ride in the high desert almost everyday from 4000-10000 and have yet to go from 32f to 100f but if I did my pressures would be in tune from the afternoon before and just lower the next morning.. doubt there's 15% pressure difference anyway....Btw, wouldn't jetting in that situation be a much bigger concern?   If anything it's the other way around, valley floor is warm and top of 9-10k mountain is below freezing..   either way I've yet or have an issue in that regard.....Tubliss rocks..

Tubeliss is great... no doubt about that.

I have noticed a marked increase in tire performance when making tire pressure adjustments on a day with a very large temperature and altitude difference.

As far a jetting goes..... no problem. I used to ride with a carb with an adjustable clicker pin, but now only have fuel injected bikes... no jetting BS on a fuel injected bike. Fuel injection on a dirt bike is simply fantastic. No gas smells, leaks or spills. Way better low end, very direct responsiveness and really nice when rolling off the throttle. I used to do all my friends carb work...... once I stopped using carbs I stopped doing other carb work. So far I'm glad to say I have not had a FI issue yet. 60,000 miles on FI bikes.

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