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Hello,

Was hoping to get some advice from some experienced riders out there. I live in PA and I recently purchased a used Husaberg TE 250 from the 2nd owner off of craigslist. I have the certificate of origin (MCO) from the original owner, and have a signed bill of sale from the second owner (the person I bought it from). One thing I realized is I have no bill of sale from the original owner to the second owner. I'm not sure if that is something I need if I ever want to get it titled. Can I get the bike titled in my name with the documents that I currently have? If not what problems could I run into with my current situation? Thanks you in advance, I appreciate any info/advice that you may be able to give.

 

Edit: The bike never had a title, original owner never applied for one which is why I only have the MCO.

Edited by MitchH

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 Every state is different. You need to talk to your local license agent. If a title was ever issued for the bike then the MCO probably has no value.

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1 minute ago, motovita said:

 Every state is different. You need to talk to your local license agent. If a title was ever issued for the bike then the MCO probably has no value.

Just edited the post. Title was never issued for the bike.

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1 minute ago, MitchH said:

Just edited the post. Title was never issued for the bike.

 Then you've bought a bike with no proof of ownership. You need to see how PA handles that ASAP.

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1 minute ago, motovita said:

 Then you've bought a bike with no proof of ownership. You need to see how PA handles that ASAP.

Any idea who to call to figure that out?

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You should be fine. At most, you will have to have the MCO signed over by the original owner  (who is to know who actually filled that part out - wink/wink) to the second owner who then signs it over to you. IIRC, there are spaces for four such transfers on the back on the MCO.

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18 minutes ago, William1 said:

You should be fine. At most, you will have to have the MCO signed over by the original owner  (who is to know who actually filled that part out - wink/wink) to the second owner who then signs it over to you. IIRC, there are spaces for four such transfers on the back on the MCO.

Thanks for the info, appreciate it. The back of the MCO only has one of the squares filled out from the original owner buying it from the dealership. This is an example of a blank square:

https://goo.gl/photos/wWTnnLUuPSwk6oMW8

So all I would have to do is get the original owner to sign it over to me (wink/wink), filling out one additional square, correct? If that is the case what do I write in the dealer information section, where it says Dealer name/number?

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Correct.

You can go to a local DMV, ask innocently what information must you get to have it filled in correctly then go to a different DMV with it all (VERY carefully) filled in. It is possible (though doubtful) instead of a dealer ID, they will want a Social Security number.

A lot of new vehicles are trade between dealers, hence the spaces on the back. Then the first 'official owner' is supposed to get it titled. You worse case is they hit for the MSRP sales tax on the bike when new.

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4 minutes ago, William1 said:

Correct.

You can go to a local DMV, ask innocently what information must you get to have it filled in correctly then go to a different DMV with it all (VERY carefully) filled in. It is possible (though doubtful) instead of a dealer ID, they will want a Social Security number.

A lot of new vehicles are trade between dealers, hence the spaces on the back. Then the first 'official owner' is supposed to get it titled. You worse case is they hit for the MSRP sales tax on the bike when new.

Gotcha, that is good news.

 

You are optimistic I will be able to get it titled with the information I have? They aren't going to require the guy to sign it infront of them or a notary? Do you think they will likely have the dealer number be left blank?

Edited by MitchH

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Just now, MitchH said:

Gotcha, that is good news.

 

You are optimistic I will be able to get it titled with the information I have? They aren't going to require the guy to sign it infront of them or a notary?

Normally, they take the title as signed. You might... have to or want to go though a title agency (though it costs more money) for ease. They are in it to make a profit where as DMV people are hourly and paid if you come in or not. I lived in PA and did a lot of business there (Williamsport and in Philly) and always dealt with the DMV due to it being cheaper though I had all my 'ducks in a row' and after a time, was a known face there., which made things easier.

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1 minute ago, William1 said:

Normally, they take the title as signed. You might... have to or want to go though a title agency (though it costs more money) for ease. They are in it to make a profit where as DMV people are hourly and paid if you come in or not. I lived in PA and did a lot of business there (Williamsport and in Philly) and always dealt with the DMV due to it being cheaper though I had all my 'ducks in a row' and after a time, was a known face there., which made things easier.

Gotcha, I will talk to the DMV to try and figure out how I can get this done.

 

If I decide not to even get a title and just keep the MCO and status as is, what are the risks? If I get pulled over for whatever reason is the documentation I have now sufficient to proof ownership? Will I be able to ride on public properties? Or do you think I should definitely work to get the title switched over.

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3 minutes ago, MitchH said:

Gotcha, I will talk to the DMV to try and figure out how I can get this done.

 

If I decide not to even get a title and just keep the MCO and status as is, what are the risks? If I get pulled over for whatever reason is the documentation I have now sufficient to proof ownership? Will I be able to ride on public properties? Or do you think I should definitely work to get the title switched over.

I do not recall what you must have in your possession to ride on public lands. In some cases, nothing, in other, you must be fully plated/road legal (like in state forests).

Your possession of the MCO at a minimum is your legal proof to bike ownership. If the bike is stolen, it is what you can use to prove the vehicle is yours. IMHO, I'd get it converted into a title in your name. If you loose a title, you can apply for a new one. If you loose the MCO, you are out of luck, you cannot get a replacement. Good as gold.

There is only one time an MCO is better than a title and that is with rare collectibles. A untitled vehicle (zero miles) with a MCO is more valuable than an identical zero machine that was titled. Think of the MCO like a 'new, in box, never opened' certificate. Now in your case, the box was opened and the vehicle used so the special value a MCO could add is long gone.

I have two bikes still with a MCO. They are brand new, in the crate from 1974. All the rest of my collection have titles in my name and current address.

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4 hours ago, William1 said:

I do not recall what you must have in your possession to ride on public lands. In some cases, nothing, in other, you must be fully plated/road legal (like in state forests).

Your possession of the MCO at a minimum is your legal proof to bike ownership. If the bike is stolen, it is what you can use to prove the vehicle is yours. IMHO, I'd get it converted into a title in your name. If you loose a title, you can apply for a new one. If you loose the MCO, you are out of luck, you cannot get a replacement. Good as gold.

There is only one time an MCO is better than a title and that is with rare collectibles. A untitled vehicle (zero miles) with a MCO is more valuable than an identical zero machine that was titled. Think of the MCO like a 'new, in box, never opened' certificate. Now in your case, the box was opened and the vehicle used so the special value a MCO could add is long gone.

I have two bikes still with a MCO. They are brand new, in the crate from 1974. All the rest of my collection have titles in my name and current address.

So I called a couple tag places and spoke with the DMV. Guy at the DMV didn't seem to really know anything, I think his shift was ending. The people at the tag place said since the bike was never registered or had a title the original owner never technically had "ownership" of the bike and thus could not transfer ownership since he never had it. They said the back of the certificate is for dealers and so him signing it to me is not valid. Any ideas?

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10 minutes ago, MitchH said:

So I called a couple tag places and spoke with the DMV. Guy at the DMV didn't seem to really know anything, I think his shift was ending. The people at the tag place said since the bike was never registered or had a title the original owner never technically had "ownership" of the bike and thus could not transfer ownership since he never had it. They said the back of the certificate is for dealers and so him signing it to me is not valid. Any ideas?

Did you call the selling dealer?

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13 minutes ago, William1 said:

Did you call the selling dealer?

And ask them for what?

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Well now that I know that it is, at the very least, going to be difficult (if even possible). What are my risks with having the bike without a title or any legal "proof of ownership" (even tho i have the MCO just not in my name). Am I ever going to be able to ride it anywhere other than my land?

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1 hour ago, MitchH said:

And ask them for what?

To sign the MCO over to you, provide proof that sales tax had been paid at time of original sale (or better still, have them take care of it for you for a nominal fee).

20 minutes ago, MitchH said:

Well now that I know that it is, at the very least, going to be difficult (if even possible). What are my risks with having the bike without a title or any legal "proof of ownership" (even tho i have the MCO just not in my name). Am I ever going to be able to ride it anywhere other than my land?

Where you can ride it will be determined by law. Does it have to be plated or stickered based on the owners title? I'd speak to a titling agency in PA, if one does not help, try another.

FYI, I never buy a machine I do not have clear title to. I know that does little for you right now but for the next time.

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35 minutes ago, William1 said:

FYI, I never buy a machine I do not have clear title to. I know that does little for you right now but for the next time.

It was a good deal, and at the time seemed like MCO would have been enough, it seemed reasonable that the owner had never registered the bike so he didn't have a title. To me it seems like I'm not at a huge disadvantage, not having it. Bike owner was from Vermont btw where apparently they didn't need titles.

 

35 minutes ago, William1 said:

To sign the MCO over to you, provide proof that sales tax had been paid at time of original sale (or better still, have them take care of it for you for a nominal fee).

That sounds like it would work. Are you sure they would just sign the MCO over? Wouldn't they need some sort of proof of purchase from the original owner since that is who's name is on the cert?

Edited by MitchH

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18 hours ago, MitchH said:

Thanks for the info, appreciate it. The back of the MCO only has one of the squares filled out from the original owner buying it from the dealership. This is an example of a blank square:

https://goo.gl/photos/wWTnnLUuPSwk6oMW8

So all I would have to do is get the original owner to sign it over to me (wink/wink), filling out one additional square, correct? If that is the case what do I write in the dealer information section, where it says Dealer name/number?

That is for a dealer to dealer transfer.  The MCO only state's the motorcycle was built and by who and what VIN it has along with number of cylinders ect.
That document never said who owned the motorcycle, only what dealer sold it and the salesman signed the bottom to release it.

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17 minutes ago, slideleft said:

That is for a dealer to dealer transfer.  The MCO only state's the motorcycle was built and by who and what VIN it has along with number of cylinders ect.
That document never said who owned the motorcycle, only what dealer sold it and the salesman signed the bottom to release it.

That is incorrect. If you look on the photo above the dealer information you will see "Name of Purchasers" and a spot for their address. Because I am not the original purchaser and thus my name does not match what is there, it seems I am unable to use the MCO to get a title, in PA.

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