Will beta ever make a smaller 2 stroke?

[bikesandcars]

After riding some of the entry level 4 stroke bikes from Japan and comparing to my xtrainer I think there is a market gap. A 200cc 2 stroke with push start, a smaller engine, similar to the xtrainer but more after the ttr230/crf230 segment. Those bikes are pigs.... A smaller lighter mellower xtrainer would rip!

[motoxgiant]

The answer is yes. What flavor is tbd.

[Subby]

I've been wanting to see a 85/105 sized chassis with a nice, linear powered 150-200cc 2T for over a decade now for the perfect daughter/cougar bike. Still a unicorn. 

[Johnny Depp]

I would not be too surprised to see an XT style (smaller chassis, lower priced) small bore if they release any. Since the XT has become the top seller it would make sense to expand upon that market niche.

Like you are saying, imagine the KTM105 or KX100 with a mellow engine for beginners and a race engine to bridge the gap between big bikes and mini's.

I have no idea what they will release, but I suspect it will be more mainstream than big wheel mini's. Most likely full sized and XT chassis with smaller bores.

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/mini-rider/141_1008_2010_big_wheel_mini_bike_shootout

Edited June 8, 2017 by Johnny Depp

[bikesandcars]

I think the xtrainer is still a little too big, it's an inch taller seat than the 230s. A smaller chassis with small and big wheel options would be fun.

The xtrainer has proved to me that a 2 stroke can be very tractable and smooth. It is too much bike for starting riders though. It is however much lighter, easy to maintain and OI makes life easier.

A 2 stroke play bike with more tractable power than the mx race bikes and less weight than the heavy farm bikes

[Black-swan]

I'd like to see a 200rr. A more modern kdx200. There are few choices other than tm or KTM for small bore enduro bikes. I think beta is missing a small bore from its line up. Imagine a race edition 200, properly suspended, no oil injection and under 100kg. Doubt we will see that though, a smaller bore xtrainer with less weight would also be cool...

[Johnny Depp]

One of the reasons for the XT success for Beta is they created a new niche. "Hit them where they ain't" is what KTM has done forever. It's much tougher to go toe to toe with the best of the best. I suspect we will see more of this approach next week?

[hawaiidirtrider]

Japan has Xtrainers that are 250's and the normal 300 too..  got the 50's..   and who knows... maybe a 125 or 200 2t could come into play.. or I like the Beta 4 stroke ALP for a nice street legal. There's the Beta 125 rs now too. There's a bigger bore top end kit too.. We'll see what comes up  later.. but really Beta has a bunch of choices.. it's also what will be brought in to this country that's already available outside too I think.

 

[weantright]

17 hours ago, bikesandcars said:

I think the xtrainer is still a little too big, it's an inch taller seat than the 230s. A smaller chassis with small and big wheel options would be fun.

The xtrainer has proved to me that a 2 stroke can be very tractable and smooth. It is too much bike for starting riders though. It is however much lighter, easy to maintain and OI makes life easier.

A 2 stroke play bike with more tractable power than the mx race bikes and less weight than the heavy farm bikes

I have seen beginners ride our XT with great success. Seat height is perfect for beginners to full size bikes. Bike set-up is the key, pv adjustment, throttle cam and soften suspension. If you need a mini, there are plenty of good bike out there now. I would like to see a 250 4t in the XT chassis. Locally here most young riders skip the 125cc bikes and go closer to the 200cc 2t or a 250 4t. Unless MX or the XC3 class 125cc is a dying class.

[Old Plonker]

Beta says that their 2018 125 RR two-stroke is: "aimed at filling a gap in the off road market as a play bike, but also a serious race bike for the newly created GNCC XC3 class as well as the NEPG Enduro classes." Definitely not a smaller XT here (after watching Steve Holcombe wring it out it's hard to see it as a play bike either).

Next I'd like to see Beta take the XT frame and shrink it around the new engine and poke and stroke it to 200cc with XT power characteristics. Oh, and include OI and the magic button while they're at it without losing the kicker.

[hawaiidirtrider]

35 minutes ago, Old Plonker said:

Beta says that their 2018 125 RR two-stroke is: "aimed at filling a gap in the off road market as a play bike, but also a serious race bike for the newly created GNCC XC3 class as well as the NEPG Enduro classes." Definitely not a smaller XT here (after watching Steve Holcombe wring it out it's hard to see it as a play bike either).

Next I'd like to see Beta take the XT frame and shrink it around the new engine and poke and stroke it to 200cc with XT power characteristics. Oh, and include OI and the magic button while they're at it without losing the kicker.

One could go to the 250 xtrainer right now too to downsize the motor if need be.. Some have done that locally and 250's are already sold in Japan and somewhere else in the xtrainer.. I forget where. The XT frame is smaller already than the rr. I kind of think that maybe the 125 and the xt might have similar sized frames.. I'm thinking the 125 has a little smaller rr frame from what it looks like so far.. but we will see.  I'm also wondering about the next question...waaaay ahead of time... a 150 top end... Still a 125 2t enduro ought to be great!!! got 125 trials 2t Betas ... I went riding Sunday with 3 brand new 15 yr old happy and eager trail riders.. I took them into some harder trails for them and tried to show them a way to go in and not get lost.. They loved it!! and they were riding the typical types of bridge to big bike rides... a honda crf150, a yz125 and an 06 cr125. A couple of times I walked back to help them up ruts and start their bikes for them.. (some were very tired learning new skills and all) DAMN I grabbed the 125 cr and it felt like a mountain bike! Talk about light feeling.... I think I forgot just how light those bikes are.. for enduro I can see that is a fun size to play with.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/40-general/2261-first-look-beta-announce-rr-125-two-stroke-enduro

[hawaiidirtrider]

Beta Motors have just dropped a proverbial bombshell with the announcement of a 125cc two-stroke enduro bike.

Playing the cards very closely to their chest, it seems Beta have caught everyone on the hop with news that they are releasing an all-new RR 125 two-stroke as part of their 2018 model range.

This is a completely new project and the result of a long development cycle which completes the entire range from 50cc bikes to big thumping 480cc engines.

The heart of the RR 125 2T MY 2018 is dedicated to competition and is targeted at the Junior and Youth categories of the World Enduro Championship and the Cadets, Junior and E1 categories of the Italian Enduro Championship, as well as all the categories reserved for small 2-strokes in the various national championships.

Beta's latest addition has Euro 4 homologation and is aimed at those who have just reached the age of 16 (though we reckon there will be many big kids wanting one too!).

The new motorcycle shown at the Press Presentation of the Enduro MY 2018 range will be presented to the public at EICMA 2017 and go into production immediately afterwards, so we’re looking at December 2017/January 2018.

Engine

This is the smallest engine of the Enduro range currently produced at Beta's Rignano factory. The result of a long process of design and development, carried out entirely by the Technical and R&D Departments, it is characterised by a particular layout designed to optimise the distribution of weight and the fluid dynamics of the engine. 

The relative position of the principal components, crankshaft and gearbox drive shaft, has allowed for reducing the longitudinal dimensions and improving engine breathing under all operating conditions. In this way an engine has been created whose great linearity and progressiveness is its strength. 

This characteristic, hard to find in small engines, allows full use of the engine from the lowest revs upwards, softening the characteristic torque knock, particularly annoying in small engines with high specific power.

There are many distinctive features of this engine, including:

Double piston rings (ø 54 mm): component designed to ensure high rigidity and reliability; the choice of double rings provides a better seal at the low and medium rpm ranges typical of Enduro.

Beta progressive valve: the system derived from the RR 2T 250 and 300 cc, characterised by a particular relationship between the opening of the main flap and that of the side boosters. The delay in opening the boosters enables excellent progressiveness in performance throughout the rpm range of the engine.

Crankshaft with polyamide inserts: favouring lightness and ensuring optimum filling of the crankcase to the benefit of performance and reliability.

Cylinder: presents an exhaust flange system like that on the larger MY 2018 displacements, enabling better control of the piston-flap-cylinder front tolerance. By keeping this value to a minimum it is possible to achieve a significant performance boost at low rpm, reducing the leakage of gases.

Aluminium dismantable cylinder head: rigid and lightweight solution made possible by moving the engine coupling on the cylinder. The geometry of the combustion chamber is designed to ensure high efficiency of the thermodynamic cycle and to obtain the best compromise between responsiveness at low-to-medium revs and in bursts. It also facilitates the fine tuning and replacement of the combustion chamber.

Die-cast crankcase in aluminium alloy: the casing geometries were designed according to an innovative layout in terms of the relative position of components and with a view to maximum weight reduction without compromising structural strength. The main bearing area received particular attention to ensure the correct rigidity of the walls in order to withstand the stresses transmitted by the crankshaft.

Die-cast crankcase covers in magnesium alloy: ensuring very low weight and optimal surface finish. It was possible to also adopt this solution for the inner clutch cover thanks to the isolation of the water pump from this element.

Vforce4 reed valve packet: the presence of the stoppers ensures high reliability without compromising performance.

6-speed dog-box transmission: specially developed for this engine with gears made by mechanical machining of forged parts so as to provide mechanical strength and reliability while still maintaining very low size and weight.

Clutch: multi-disc in oil bath with reverse opening, actuator integrated in the outer cover. This is a system designed for maximum lightness and compactness of the engine which, thanks to its low positioning, ensures the reduced size of the power unit and a significant centralisation of weight, very important for good chassis dynamics.

Electric starter: the engine is designed to accommodate (as an accessory) a Bendix start and engage starter motor, fully integrated into the layout of the crankcase in a protected position.

Chassis

The bike derives partly from the larger engines in the range but was developed specifically to optimise the behaviour of the engine-frame combination.

The frame, in chrome molybdenum with double cradle split above the exhaust port, has been redesigned for a small engine, revising its principal dimensions and ensuring an optimal positioning of the engine.

This solution has allowed particular characteristics of the RR family to be further enhanced, such as its great handling and ride-ability – even more noticeable due to the low weight of the motorcycle – as well as stability.

Among the many innovations adopted on this motorcycle are:

Geometry of the new upper attachments: various solutions were researched and developed before the final one that made it possible to reduce the vibrations generated by the engine while maintaining significant engine-frame system stiffness.

Sachs Suspension: derived from the rest of the RR range but with its own settings. At the front there is an open-cartridge fork of 48 mm diameter.

Exhaust system: in order to optimize the 2-stroke engine's torque and power curves, the Beta R&D Department has developed a special system dedicated to Enduro use.

Filter box manifold: designed for the 125 cc engine, it improves the flow across the range of operation, from low revs upwards.

Engine guard: made from polyamide to combine strength and lightness, it provides excellent shielding against the ingress of mud between the engine and the guard.

Gasoline tank: a slightly smaller tank has been adopted to improve ergonomics on board the bike while maintaining sufficient fuel autonomy.

Cooling system: designed especially for this bike, it has new pipes and radiators with specially shaped reservoirs to fit the small size of the motorcycle.

Nissin braking system: extremely powerful and configurable, the same as on the rest of the Enduro range.

Colours and graphics: the same as the rest of the RR my 2018 range.  

[hawaiidirtrider]

53 minutes ago, Old Plonker said:

Beta says that their 2018 125 RR two-stroke is: "aimed at filling a gap in the off road market as a play bike, but also a serious race bike for the newly created GNCC XC3 class as well as the NEPG Enduro classes." Definitely not a smaller XT here (after watching Steve Holcombe wring it out it's hard to see it as a play bike either).

Next I'd like to see Beta take the XT frame and shrink it around the new engine and poke and stroke it to 200cc with XT power characteristics. Oh, and include OI and the magic button while they're at it without losing the kicker.

holy shit that sure looks fun!!!!  Thankyou for sharing!!!

Edited June 13, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[bikesandcars]

Ask and ye shall receive. Kick start, looks small! Sachs suspension... Looks like a ton of fun. Price is TBD.... Can they sell it cheaper than the xtrainer?

[highmarker]

gas gas keeps touting a new 200 but the press releases always show the 250/300

[kxrob]

On 6/9/2017 at 4:36 AM, Subby said:

I've been wanting to see a 85/105 sized chassis with a nice, linear powered 150-200cc 2T for over a decade now for the perfect daughter/cougar bike. Still a unicorn. 

beta 200cc trials bike with the seat and tank comp fills the gap

[hawaiidirtrider]

26 minutes ago, bikesandcars said:

Ask and ye shall receive. Kick start, looks small! Sachs suspension... Looks like a ton of fun. Price is TBD.... Can they sell it cheaper than the xtrainer?

Idk.. but it would be in the range of ktm and husky 125 I'd think..

Edited June 14, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[hawaiidirtrider]

6 minutes ago, kxrob said:

beta 200cc trials bike with the seat and tank comp fills the gap

I figure this bike ought to be fine.. I'm figuring the size of an xtrainer..

[hawaiidirtrider]

9 minutes ago, kxrob said:

beta 200cc trials bike with the seat and tank comp fills the gap

 

..not an enduro bike though..

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by hawaiidirtrider

[hawaiidirtrider]

20 minutes ago, highmarker said:

gas gas keeps touting a new 200 but the press releases always show the 250/300

The 17 200 gasgas  looked like the same frame and chassis as the 250 and 300 .. That doesn't work to me if that's the same.. gotta be smaller and lighter.

 

http://www.cycleworld.com/2017-gas-gas-ec-200-e-racing