reip

DRZ 470 with FCR 41

64 posts in this topic

It's about 90° here and she wasn't liking the heat too much riding though slow traffic and on my way home.  Idle fluctuating, running pretty hot (still no fan) and even getting hesitation easing off the clutch from a stop.

Doesn't help that the intake boot clamp screws fell out on one of the clamps....

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Posted (edited)

Aaaand I think I smoked the rings or valve seals...blue smoke. 

Edited by reip

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Posted (edited)

Get it a little too hot did we ??  Intake clamp let a bunch of air by and run it too lean ?

I ran my LTZ400 and LTR 450 one whole 5 day weekend when it was 104F to 109F every day and I had to keep moving to cool myself off , no issues with either in that heat.

 

 

.

Edited by jjktmrider

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9 minutes ago, jjktmrider said:

Get it a little too hot did we ??  Intake clamp let a bunch of air by and run it too lean ?

Yup, feeling pretty defeated right now.  Next stop compression test..

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Posted (edited)

Welcome to modding engines! My 470 was a long road to get to where I am. She's ripping arms and banging red lines now. 

Edited by Atolduso

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Back with some updates, haven't touched the bike since.  Won't start now only backfires.

Checked the timing, it's good.

Checked valve clearances, intake within spec, exhaust too tight by .073mm.

Still haven't done a leakdown test, will do once I get this shim kit in and put back to spec.

Will have to find the right head gasket to go with my BB kit if I find the valves are burnt. Fingers crossed on some good news

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Finally got around to doing a leak down test and I'm confused by the results.

Had to do it cold as the bike won't start.

Shows 80% leakage but I hear no air eacaping from anywhere.

If I turn up the pressure on the tools regulator the only air I hear is escaping from the radiator bubbling out

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Posted (edited)

That would point toward a head gasket blown out , air is going into cooling cavities and out through the radiator cap .  Doesn't take a whole lot to be down so far one compression .  May just be a fairly cheap fix for you with only some gaskets . Have to inspect the head good once you have it off .  I made a plate once for certain heads that I could bolt to the bottom of the head and pressurize the combustion chamber to test the valves and inspect for any cracks with it off the motor.

 

.

Edited by jjktmrider
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If I'm taking the head off anyways it'll be good to inspect the head and the cylinder wall.  Would suck to put it back together to find it leaks from somewhere else when its not going through the head gasket anymore!

When I did turn up the pressure, it just pushes the Piston down towards BDC

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Posted (edited)

I added to above post ^^

 

Is a good sign if you had to fight the piston from going down . I have a big breaker bar and T handle racket that I strap to the footpeg to hold the crank/piston in place . 

 

.

Edited by jjktmrider
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Head is off.  Happy to see what everything looks like.  Drained the oil and it looks to have coolant in it, consistency doesn't seem right.

Just hesitant to put the new head gasket on and close it up before I know if the valves are good and/or the rings.

Now what about the lower gasket below the jug? Not a problem to reuse? Otherwise it's remove the jug and that's definitely something I am not looking forward to doing.

IMG_20170803_200129237.jpg

IMG_20170803_202614127.jpg

IMG_20170803_200219253.jpg

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More pictures of cylinder wall. Some visual something in that second picture but it doesn't feel like anything to the touch

IMG_20170803_201738428.jpg

IMG_20170803_200209592.jpg

IMG_20170803_200158590.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Was the wetness around the bottom gasket there before disassembly ?  It's not as critical of a gasket down there and doesn't have the pressures that the headgasket has . I'd be tempted to leave it , though not "ideal" , but...........

By the carbon and wetness look of the piston top it seemed to be burning a little oil , the outer edge of the piston isn't bare all the way around so doesn't appear to be oil wash coming around the piston side past the rings , EXCEPT that left side which is clean and no carbon , which is unsettling . Make me wonder if the ring ends are lined up over there and allowing oil past . Anyone else seeing that feel free to say what your thoughts on that are .

 

What did the gasket look like ? Was there a spot that really looked like it was leaking ? Seems like a spot in the pics that may have been .

 

Otherwise the cylinder looks ok , it is common to see some of those scuff marks on the walls as long as there is no scratches or obvious harsh rubbing . Seems to be running on the rich side yet , can't say how much with the oil . What was the plug like ? May be fine if she was running good , you did say it didn't like the heat which makes it run even richer so it must be on the edge .

 

.

Edited by jjktmrider

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10 minutes ago, jjktmrider said:

Was the wetness around the bottom gasket there before disassembly ?  It's not as critical of a gasket down there and doesn't have the pressures that the headgasket has . I'd be tempted to leave it , though not "ideal" , but...........

It was not wet before hand, just started dripping when I loosened up the head bolts.  Managed to get a look at the ring gap location and it's not at the clean spot.

It's also possible that the rubber seals on the valves are letting oil drip down into the combustion chamber?? 

IMG_20170803_234808686.jpg

IMG_20170803_234829993.jpg

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If you look down the exhaust and intake ports on the head are the valve stems wet ?   

 

That second picture is what doesn't look right compared to the rest of the piston .  How many miles since the rebuild ?

 

.

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Posted (edited)

On 6/12/2017 at 1:44 PM, jjktmrider said:

Ya that bell is removable and can be replaced with the correct one so no adaptor needed .I don't know where to get it but I would think Jets R Us is one place , but don't have the part #. My fcr41 has a 170main IIRC(it cam with a 175, but I went down) , 42 pilot(came with 45 and wouldn't idle worth a crap, flooding out) , and that same obdvr needle with the clip on the very top groove ,going off memory from the last time I messed with it, never wrote the last specs down but I will  when it's off next time for the smaller pilot . The needle I know isn't the perfect one seems too run rich down low and around 1/4 throttle,( I have the EMN needle sitting here) and I can go one down on the pilot since my mixture screw is only .5 out . Need to weld a bung on my new FMF header to hook up the wideband again to fine tune .

 

Yours will be way too rich as it's jetted ,I'd start with my settings and go from there.

 

.

DSCN1508.JPG

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything but what kind of upgrades are installed on this carb, this thing has me hard AF.  Closest thing i could find is a flowpro FCR upgrade kit, anyone know anything about this company or this kit, seems to be based outta europe (latvia maybe) 

http://www.flowpro.org/carb-line/carb-line-kit/

 

Edited by RingwoodRaceway

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4 minutes ago, RingwoodRaceway said:

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything but what kind of upgrades are installed on this carb, this thing has me hard AF.  Closest thing i could find is a flowpro FCR upgrade kit, anyone know anything about this company or this kit, seems to be based outta europe (latvia maybe) 

http://www.flowpro.org/carb-line/carb-line-kit/

 

I saw this too and I think it's just a dress up kit.  Sorry I'm no help but I forgot where I saw one for sale.  Probably eBay.

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11 minutes ago, jjktmrider said:

If you look down the exhaust and intake ports on the head are the valve stems wet ?   

 

That second picture is what doesn't look right compared to the rest of the piston .  How many miles since the rebuild ?

 

.

Intake looks great, exhaust looks gritty but not wet.  Less than 1k miles on the rebuild. AFAIK it wasn't "broken in" by the books.  The old grip it and rip it methodology.  Odd thing is the bike ran great the few times I rode it before I put it away for the winter.

IMG_20170804_000140121.jpg

IMG_20170804_000218362.jpg

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There's a lot of crud on those intake valves , especially for only 1k miles unless they weren't touched . Still enough on them . Tip the head upside down and fill the "bowl" with gas , see how badly they leak and time how long it takes to empty it .

 

The carb is from Flow Pro over in Europe , it has the plates in the bore , 3 on the air filter side and 2 on the motor side. It works good , I got 3 of them , 2 for both my KLX650's . He was pretty good price wise , but suddenly went up quite a bit so not really sure it's worth it for a used fcr with the last ones I saw he had for sale lately . All 3 tend to need smaller jets than normal . I'm down the 35 pilot and 160 main in my KLX, still plenty rich , and 40 pilot and 165main now in my DRZ and it's still running way rich, especially at idle and just above . Air jets are what is generally standard for the DRZ here so that's not the reason for the difference . I think the plates increase the velocity going past the jets thus more fuel gets sucked through a given jet size , so I need to go smaller . I'm now playing with bigger air jets so I don't have to get so small on the pilot.

 

.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, jjktmrider said:

There's a lot of crud on those intake valves , especially for only 1k miles unless they weren't touched . Still enough on them . Tip the head upside down and fill the "bowl" with gas , see how badly they leak and time how long it takes to empty it .

Well aren't you the clever one! Nice idea.  It sloooowly drained and only the exhaust valves got wet.  I'm talking it only lost a few mL over the course of 3 minutes.  

 

Found a reputable vendor on eBay (fastheads) who offers a $175 head service job when you send them the head and the new parts.  They soda blast, cnc the valve seats, and assemble and test.

Is kibble white still regarded as junk for DRZ's? Can't find a complete kit like this from anyone else.

 

 

Screenshot_20170804-072233.png

Edited by reip

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