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2013 500exc oil change filled with glitter!

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Last month I purchased a used 2013 500exc. It was really clean, ran good overall seemed like a good idea.  It had 124hrs and about 4400 miles. I added about 10hrs riding single track and general desert riding. Then I decided to change the oil. Well that oil change looks like a metallic cloud.  But it isn't magnetic. I have drained and refilled with about 1 mile runs in between 3 times now.  All look the same. Bike runs great, starts with the smallest blip of the starter. Looks like im in for a rebuild. After some google it sounds like it might be that the 12-13's has a rod with roller bearings. 14-16 had plain bearings.  The roller bearings seem to fail prematurely. Anyone have a source for cheap parts? Cheapest crank i can find is $630.00 with all the other stuff im about $1000.00 in parts. Any help would be great. What are the chances of needing a full rebuild?

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Last month I purchased a used 2013 500exc. It was really clean, ran good overall seemed like a good idea.  It had 124hrs and about 4400 miles. I added about 10hrs riding single track and general desert riding. Then I decided to change the oil. Well that oil change looks like a metallic cloud.  But it isn't magnetic. I have drained and refilled with about 1 mile runs in between 3 times now.  All look the same. Bike runs great, starts with the smallest blip of the starter. Looks like im in for a rebuild. After some google it sounds like it might be that the 12-13's has a rod with roller bearings. 14-16 had plain bearings.  The roller bearings seem to fail prematurely. Anyone have a source for cheap parts? Cheapest crank i can find is $630.00 with all the other stuff im about $1000.00 in parts. Any help would be great. What are the chances of needing a full rebuild?

That glitter or dust is somewhat normal and I wouldn't be concerned. What oil are you using? I always have a little in my oil changes and so do others I know. The roller bearings you speak of isn't an issue. My brother in law was concerned and talked to a reputable shop that works on and rebuilds 500 exc's pretty often and they've never seen one go bad or even heard of it. If I remember correctly they said the case would have to split so it wasn't a cheap job to update the bearings.

Spud if you're reading this I'd be interested in hearing if you get some glitter in your million mile 500exc that seems to keep running forever?

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2 hours ago, XMotolark said:

 Bike runs great, starts with the smallest blip of the starter. Looks like im in for a rebuild.

bike runs great so why to think about rebuild?

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3 hours ago, Deepseadan said:




Spud if you're reading this I'd be interested in hearing if you get some glitter in your million mile 500exc that seems to keep running forever?

Not sure what a metallic cloud looks like , but my oil holds up really well , and still see's good clarity in the drain stream, at my 15 hour average intervals. I guess if I hold the oil dump pan into sunlight, I can see some sparkles in it. But both oil screens and filter are always clean and debri free, and a waste of time cleaning.

so I would would ask what this metal cloud looks like, some kind of greyish film oil sheen or what?

 But no, I'm pleased wit my oil dumps , I don't even run synthetic, just 20w50 dino rated oil .  pushing towards 28,000 miles, closing in on 600 hours

 

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I will try to get some pictures of the oil I keep it. I do understand that some metal is in your oil is normal.  But this was extremely excessive. The last oil I saw that looked that way the engine rod bearings were bad. But that was a ford V10. And it had a bad engine knock .

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I think Dave in Kirkland WA would be a good bet for rebuilding- if he thinks it necessary. He does phone consult. Haven't used the oil testing services, but that might be a cheap diagnostics before pulling it apart.  

Edited by Burnrider
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Stupid question here.......

 

but you are viewing your oil as it drains, or after its picked up crude that may reside in the bottom of your waste oil catch pan?

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3 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

Stupid question here.......

 

but you are viewing your oil as it drains, or after its picked up crude that may reside in the bottom of your waste oil catch pan?

I thought of that. So I went out and bought a new uncontaminated drain pan. Warmed up the bike and drained the fresh oil with like 1 mile on it. It was cloudy like really small metal particles floating in the oil. Theres a few smaller bits on the bottom of the pan. Still more then normal I would think. When I get home Im going to mess with it. Im wondering if the cloud was just like micro air bubbles and I was over reacting. Usually the oil I drain is so dsrk you can't see whats suspended in it.

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The shop check for motor oil is not the oil, or the filter- it's the screens. They trap material which is usually gasket material, sealer, Aluminum or worst case steel. Your drain plug will have fuzz on it which is typical of harder clutch use. Curled metal is sometimes the thread sliver off the end of an output shaft on the drain plug. If the oil is cloudy is it air or has the water pump seal started to leak? White is AF or coolant contamination. 

Check it out and post later. 

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I know what coolant contamination looks like. Like a nasty milkshake. This is definitely not that. I'm crossing my fingers for really small air bubbles. But it's sat for a little over 24 hours now. If there was fine particles suspended in the oil they will be on the bottom of the pan.

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Coffee filter

Your oil

Time

Inspect

.....realize you were looking at air bubbles...

The oil filter will trap all the particles under 35 microns in the filter (shared oil cavity only)

Glitter is either bronze bushing wear (not found on KTM cranks) or aluminum (very common on KTM with all the aluminum parts in the trans)

Let the oil filter drain, then cut it so you can spread open the accordian and inspect the material inside.

Everything under that size will pass, and is normal, but not if it is a 'cloud' of it in 5 hours of use.....

The mag drain plug will attract ferrous metal from the wearing of the trans

 

Edited by Krannie McKranface

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Ok new development. The oil is still cloudy. So whatever it is is staying suspended in the oil. I started to wonder if it could be dirt/dust. After inspecting the air filter. I found someone had CUT engine breather hose 2" before connecting to the air filter box. I removed the air filter and found a dust path behind the air filter. Because they didn't plug it off. I just don't understand why people mess with shit they just don't understand. ( in my best bubba voice)" hhuuuh shooot that theres a black epa hose. Daaamnnn son, I should cut that so it doesn't suck oil vapor back onto old betsy here".

  So now im wondering what kind of damage dust ingestion could do to the motor? I imagine the air filter is there for a reason!! Im going to fill and flush like 10 times and see what it looks like after that.

Edited by XMotolark

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Another thought, especially after your last post on the breather hose.

Is it possible that Bubba was NOT changing the oil at all, or not changing it that much, and now there is just a LOT of sludge to work out of the engine?

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I don't know if the newer Ktm's have a hydraulic cam chain tensioner but my 09 450 exc did and were known to wear and I would imagine produce the flecks of metal you describe. I replaced mine with a spring type and the bike runs quieter now. Food for thought. 

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Here is a pic of the last oil change. Basiclly I drained it. Filled it with rotella T drove about 1 mile then came home ans drained this pan. I found zero particles of metal in the bottom of the pan. This is all suspended in the oil whatever it is. Nothing on the screens at all. 

20170618_162203.jpg

Edited by XMotolark

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A lot of damage has been done by the unfiltered air getting through, no way to know, without knowing how long it was unfiltered and the degree of dirt and sand. But expect damage, with shortened motor life.

 

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But, if it was air filter damage, wouldn'tthat really only effect the cylinder and rings mainly? 

To the OP, do have some way to do a leak down test?  That might tell you something about the cylinder/rings anyway...

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I dont have anyway of doing a leak down test. Im planning on tearing down the piston/cylinder. Its weird because it starts with the smallest blip of the starter button. If it had low compression wouldn't it be harder to start? Im in the midst of building a 24'x40' shop. Also my wifes forcing me to go on vacation next week. Its going to be a long week stressing over my bike lol! Anyway im planning on a tear down as soon as my new shop is sealed up. My garage is to full of crap to try it there.

Edited by XMotolark

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