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AMA rules covering 4wheeler on Track.

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Was at a Regional race this past weekend in the SE for LL's. When the riders lined up at the gate and were ready. The card went sideways and they were off.

The start was up a hill for guessing about 100ft then went down and to the left and back to the right then up.

 

They was a rider that went down just over the Hill and then another rider hit the first bike that fell then a third rider just got off balance from stopping right at the wreck.

 

At this point no one was hurt.they were just in the process of picking there bikes up.

At this time here comes a Medic on a 4wheeler zipping across the track to help the riders that wasn't even hurt or anything. When all of a sudden a Rider came flying up over the Hill from the starting gates and plows the 4wheeler that was zipping across the track to the riders that were down that were getting up.

This caused the 4wheeler to launch onto the motorcycle's that were down and hitting one of the riders. The Medic that was on the bike was all laid out on the track on his back,4wheeler laying on top of two bikes and riders getting back up from being knocked over by a 4wheeler.

 

One of the riders was a buddy of mine and the 4wheeler caused a lot of damage to his bike. Messed the FMF 4.1 silencer up,the Launch control button on the Handle bar and the rear fender.

 

He went to the AMA Ref at the track and told him the 4wheeler shouldn't have been on the track period. Especially there which was on another side of a hill after a start where there wasn't any flagged at to begin with. The whole situation itself was bad.

 

So my buddy asked the AMA Ref there to at least buy him a Silencer for his bike since it wasn't his fault he got ran over by a 4wheeler in a MX race.

 

At first they said it was just racing, until he started letting the AMA Ref know about the Vicarious liability involved on his behalf. Then he kinda changed his tune. The Track or AMA or some one there got his shipping info and Bike info and is getting him another FMF silencer but what about the yamaha mapping switch on the Handle bar that's $63.00?

 

I just think it's shady,.....If they knew they weren't in the wrong they wouldn't have bought him a Silencer. So that there tells me that The AMA officials were in the wrong by allowing the 4wheeler on the track from a spot that they didn't need to ride a 4wheeler to. The media could have walked to that spot. They wasn't bit like 60ft away from the bikes that were down.

 

I told my buddy he should go talk to a Lawyer and make the AMA Ref or Track pay for everything on his bike that was damaged.

The Track knew they was in the wrong or they would have bought him a Silencer.

 

The rider that was hit by a 4wheeler had to go to the hospital for shoulder injuries. If I was him The Track would be paying those Bills.

 

The rider that hit the 4wheeler was ok bit he stalled his bike off the gate at the race. When he got the bike started he took off. He said he was in 4th gear by the time he got to the top of the Hill and that's when he seen a 4wheeler zipping from off the side of the track across right in front of him.

He said he didn't have time to react or anything. He just plowed right into him knocking the Medic off and he went flying over the bars.

 

Should the track pay for the damages for everyone?

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seems like poor placement of medics and poor communication. IMO the track or the club hosting the event should be paying all the costs of the things broken and medical bills are your responsibility when you release your safety on a piece of paper. The medic should of known there was someone still on the gate, but it's just like being in a hare scramble with a big log you weren't expecting that you hit WFO, it's part of the course and the risk. If you can't understand that pick a different sport

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Flaggers were at fault, medic too, as well as anyone at race control. They are lucky no one got hurt. However, if I were the AMA (or any official) I'd of not paid a thin dime for any damage the occurs on a race track for any reason.

You enter a race, you assume risk from any obstacle. Period. If you race and the management of the race s poor, you pack up and leave. You are not forced to be there. There have been countless times in pro racing where there were issues the riders/drivers did not like and they refused to race.

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3 minutes ago, William1 said:

Flaggers were at fault, medic too, as well as anyone at race control. They are lucky no one got hurt. However, if I were the AMA (or any official) I'd of not paid a thin dime for any damage the occurs on a race track for any reason.

You enter a race, you assume risk from any obstacle. Period. If you race and the management of the race s poor, you pack up and leave. You are not forced to be there. There have been countless times in pro racing where there were issues the riders/drivers did not like and they refused to race.

The only thing I would add is demand your entrance fee back.

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Pretty sure you signed an AMA waiver when you drove onto the property.  It's a sport that involves certain risks.  It was a bad situation.  Mistakes were made.  You should be first concerned with working with the AMA officials at the track to ensure for safety reasons it doesn't happen again.  Threatening to sue or even suggesting that they owe you money is a good way to help kill the sport.  

 

I raced a forumula car in the SCCA.  I've seen people make mistakes that resulted in a $40,000 car being destroyed.  The owner/driver of that car didn't try to get damages from the other racer who accidentally pushed him off that track.  That would be nuts.  Likewise I've had my car damaged by others who were at fault.  They got into a corner too hot or whatever.  That's the risk of racing.  We all accept it.

If you can't afford to replace it, you shouldn't be racing it.  Period.  And talking about getting lawyers involved over a $63 part is simply juvenile.

Doc

Edited by Doc_d
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This type of stuff happens all the time at amateur MX tracks. The track owes you nothing. It's racing, shit happens. You signed a liability waiver for injury and damages when you entered the track. 

We're talking about a few hundred dollars worth of parts here, suck it up.

Edited by Kosmic
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25 minutes ago, cjjeepercreeper said:

The only thing I would add is demand your entrance fee back.

Yup, though often they have a clause on the form you sign that states it is non-refundable except... and they list conditions of refund eligibility. Usually only if nuclear war is declared or a giant asteroid hits the Earth.

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Talk to the medics and the Officials about how to avoid this in the future.

Blaming them or asking them to pay for it will just ensure that they strongly consider never helping with a race again. Considering medics and officials are required for events, we should not be chasing them away. 

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I am actually an AMA Congressman for the Competition Committee. I'm sorry to say it but most the remarks above have it right. No one owes your friend anything accept maybe an apology for the incident. Them (Promoter/track) getting him a 4.1 slip on replacement is great, we all know racing is inherently dangerous and WE (the racers) assume that risk. While the medical staff maybe should have paid a little more attention, they also for the most part have the right away to get to that pile up and help those injured racer(s) since those can be life threatening issues. Your friend and us all as a racer have control of our brake and throttle and also need to be aware of the surroundings. Accidents do happen and sorry to hear this one getting your friend. 

The AMA Rulebook covers much of this but not in the exact content of your incident, but that quad is considered an emergency vehicle for that purpose. Also in the AMA Rulebook under Appendix 5.6 it covers all the items of "ASSUMPTION OF RISK AND RELEASE AND WAIVER OF LIABILITY" and based on all that we have given up certain rights. Item 6 under that appendix does cover Claims though. Also be aware that the track or the promoting district may also have supplemental rules that may also cover them in other areas since most rules are Nation wide others are based state to state.

We all know the potential risk when we go racing and you have to look at those since racing isn't for everyone. Don't mean to sound like a douche but AMA also brings a lot of good to these events from the beginning starting levels to the PRO's. Your friend can make a Protest with AMA and or the track your friend raced at and that is our right under the rules, it does cost a few bucks so look into it if you guys feel that need. You will find the AMA Rulebook online and covers all we are discussing. Feel free in reaching out if you wish...

BR,

DD

Edited by Diamond-Dave
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Your "friend" is exactly the type of person who is responsible for getting 95% of most riding areas closed. Think about that for a minute.

If you and your friend were riding and he stopped on the trail suddenly in front of you and you could not stop fast enough and you rear ended him causing some damage to his rear fender and the end of his tail pipe-how would YOU feel if he turned to you and said "pay up sucker!". Be honest.. Tell us how you would respond to that. Same scenario, but let's say it was YOUR private property he was riding on with you because you felt like being gracious and letting your friend ride with you.. Would you just pay up and then let him come riding there again the next weekend? Most likely, you are going to kick him off your property and never let him come back. That's what most property owners are having to do with ALL dirt bike riders because of the FEW that have ruined it for the rest of us.

I understand it was an unsafe situation for all involved. Instead of bitching about the damaged parts on his bike, he should be THANKFUL that he was not seriously injured, AND that he actually has a place to ride. The best course of action for your "friend" would be to discuss with the powers that be how to handle situations like this in the future to avoid the same scenario and potentially injuring other parties. He could turn this into a POSITIVE if he really cared more about the sport, than about himself.

I think you might also be better served by finding better people to associate with. If he has no issues sticking it to one person in life, he won't mind doing it to others along the way, and that might mean YOU at some point.

 

 

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This actually is a very complicated issue legally, attorneys have a field day with this sort of thing. That's why if you are a race promoter you better have all your ducks in a row, including personnel that are well trained. If you don't then the waiver isn't worth the paper it is written on. Our local mx track has been closed for several years due to a wreck where a kid was critically injured. A lawsuit followed, even though the kid's dad was a race official. This is a pretty blatant and extreme example but it illustrates the point. The reason it is so blatant is the dumbass promoter cheaped out and failed to have any medical personnel on scene during the racing! But, the dad, knowing this still let his kid race, then sued.

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Edit:. Not worth it... I just need to get out and ride.

Edited by Doc_d

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Sounds like a crappy situation but it also sounds like no one was seriously hurt which is the important thing.  With that being said, crap happens especially in this sport.  If this is a small venue it only takes a few people going overboard over something like this and taking legal action against the venue to put a bad taste in the owners mouth and then they say ef it and shut things down forever.   Don't ruin everyone else's riding spot over something stupid.  

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All in all....the main thing was no one was really that hurt. However at the top of the Hill off the start......they do need a Flagger up there.
Medic should have checked or radioed to make sure everyone had left the gates and was over the Hill before he pulled out onto the track.

AMA Ref must have known they were in the wrong because he did offer to fix or replace broken parts on the two Bikes involved with the 4wheeler.
However.......the Race should have been Red Flagged and started over or rescheduled later in the day or even the next day.

They were Red Flagging races where riders that were trying to jump the gate to get an early start........so why didn't they Red Flag a race where there was 3 bikes down and then another bike hitting the Medic and 4wheeler causing all types of chaos.

Beats me..... I am just glad that things worked out for everyone.

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1 hour ago, CaptainKnobby said:

All in all....the main thing was no one was really that hurt. However at the top of the Hill off the start......they do need a Flagger up there.
Medic should have checked or radioed to make sure everyone had left the gates and was over the Hill before he pulled out onto the track.

AMA Ref must have known they were in the wrong because he did offer to fix or replace broken parts on the two Bikes involved with the 4wheeler.
However.......the Race should have been Red Flagged and started over or rescheduled later in the day or even the next day.

They were Red Flagging races where riders that were trying to jump the gate to get an early start........so why didn't they Red Flag a race where there was 3 bikes down and then another bike hitting the Medic and 4wheeler causing all types of chaos.

Beats me..... I am just glad that things worked out for everyone.

CK, Glad no one was seriously injured for sure... I do have to agree that if the pile up was large enough and took a while to clear then yes it maybe should have been red flagged but that is the officials call at that time. Many times they feel pressure to keep the motos on schedule that things like this get rushed. For the most part you have to remember that many people working the race are volunteers and do not get paid or if they do it may only be a couple bucks, a meal or sometimes just an event shirt and in some cases have little experience with this kind of situation so they are supposed to have training sessions and pre race meetings to go over duties. 

3 bikes being down is not that big of a deal unless people were unconscious, or obviously broken or bleeding unless that track width was seriously cut off where racers couldn't get by. But there should have been some cautionary flagmen in that area. You did point out some safety issues for sure at this event and one thing I truly would recommend is if you are not in a Club do join one, get involved and help drive these improvements in your circuit. Sometimes promoters do not see these kind of issues unless they ride the course or get a birds eye view. I have seen many mistakes over 4+ decades of riding, racing, pit/chase and race promoting support but I have also seen great improvements when people speak up and get involved. The bad thing is sometimes it does take an accident to open ones eyes to this fact. In the last 6 years I have seen incredible improvements in WORCs, NHHA, Big6, REM, AMA District events, BITD and SCORE yet there is always room from improvement and many of these promoters learn from accidents and as they go to new venues that they may have not hosted before. That said I know that these promoters and their hosting clubs do their very best to improve and make these fun safe events but also with today's talent, equipment and skill the bar does get raised higher and higher which make accidents many times all the worse. 

Hope all this didn't leave you tainted, racing is a RUSH for sure and with that comes a lot of passion and emotions but as mentioned by many it is an expensive sport and many times leaves one pissed off and frustrated but when things come together there is nearly no greater feeling as to being on that podium or even coming in the top 40 in a 200+ rider event. Its our bench racing that always brings you back...

 I know my last frustrating event was BITD Vegas to Reno when one of my race partners crashed and ripped off the headlight, he left that light sitting in the desert floor instead of gathering it and bringing in for repair. We then tried to race even faster to try to complete the race before dark but with pushing so hard we started going backwards with additional tire flats and minor mistakes. So 65 miles from the finish of a 671 mile race we had to pull the plug when we were going back and forth for 2nd and having 3rd 50+ EX locked in. Yes our pit team mounted the light a little too early but with that racer leaving the part on the desert floor it killed our chance to finish since the last pit stop would not let bikes out with no lights as the sun was setting. Very frustrating and took some time to cool off especially after spending $2500 to prep the bike, $750 on entry fees and then the additional monies for race gas, 2 chase trucks support, hotels and meals for the event. So we've all been in your friends shoes in one way or another and its all about how you deal with life's situations. But as much as it does suck loosing that event I can tell you the memories of racing and the seat time for each section ran and running between 96-103 mph for areas is still a priceless memory and I do it and other events as much as I can. This is what brings you back...

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I would be mad and may say some words, but I wouldn't think about a lawyer or money. Its a part of racing/riding. Many faults happened. Luckily no major injuries!

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