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Slightly Mislead by JD Jetkit? Just my rant.....

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Hi guys,  

Picked up a 08 DR-Z400S a couple weeks ago. Love the thing.. But like most of us, I was bit with the need for more speed only after a few good rides. After scanning through some google and TT searches it quickly became obvious, throw a JD kit in it, cut the 3x3 hole in the airbox, and get back to shredding... but quicker and smoother than before.... these searches  made it an easy choice.  And hey, while i'm at it, might as well get one of those kientech extended fuel mixture screws, just to make life easier....why not? Everyone seems to suggest it..... decided to order both the jet kit and the extended screw directly from the JD website. I figured this would insure the best possible customer service, and support down the road if needed.  

A week passes and the jet kit finally arrives, but to my horror they appear to have forgotten the extended fuel screw! But nope, it was conveniently placed inside the JD Jet kit box. How thoughtful of them! :)   Everything in my life went on hold and in goes the jet kit, and extended screw, following instructions to a T.... 3x3 hole opened up exc...

I was excited, Gitty, and could hardly wait to let the fuel finish filling the float before I flashed her up. and then it happend... it just wasnt right... idle was slightly rough, sharp throttle snaps off idle where less than ideal, and taking the bike for a rip was definitely an improvement, but I was no way blown away... 

Back on the hoist she goes to start fine tuning the fuel/air mixture screw... -HEY! good thing I bought the extended screw to make this easier! Well it turns out I was able to tighten the fuel/air ratio all the way in till snug with hardly any noticeable rpm difference. All signs point to the pilot jet being to large. But how could that be!? I  installed the 25 pilot just like the instructions told me. I did everything exactly as outlined in the instructions!  After playing with it some more, just to keep coming up with the same conclusion.... I need to install a smaller pilot jet. I hit the google machine and TT search and starting digging into pilot jet issues with the JD kit. And all of a sudden with a few different phrases in my search, I come up with a handful of people explaining you need to run the stock 22.5 pilot when you run the keintech extended fuel screw. One post mentioned it was a different taper.. WTF

So heres the 1st point of my rant...

Why the F@%^ didn't the JD website mention this difference in taper on their web site, when I ordered the kit, with the keinteck instructions, even when they went as far as to open the jet kit packaging, and place this extended screw in their products packaging! It really ticked me off.. lol now Ive got to replace this pilot jet tomorrow morning before work instead of going for a ride on my new faster bike! :/

and the 2nd point.. 

This deeper research into JD jet kit issues has brought up a few mentions of people having better running bikes using the 4th clip on the blue needle, instead of the suggested 3rd clip. Can anybody chime in on this for me, and give me feed back? I know I could probly search for this, but if anybody feels like throwing me a bone on this one, I really dont think I can do any more JD jet kit googling tonight without my eyes going cross eyed! also obviously if I have to pull er apart again tomorrow morning, it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone :)

possibly my rant is emotion based, and I should have spent longer and dug deeper before I made my purchase?

Current set up: (till tomorrow morning)

'08 dr-z400s 

stock exhaust, 3x3 hole cut. moose oiled air filter....

155 main

blue needle 3rd clip down

25 pilot

keintech extened air screw screwed all the way in.... grrr

sea level, Southern Westcoast Vancouver Island, Humid and usually 10-20c  degrees this time of year... 

Edited by Grouper

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Probably should have researched the fuel screw. The JD instructions are for stock fuel screw, just because they sell someone elses product doesn't mean they know exactly how it will work in bikes without them spending R&D time and money on testing.

 

As far as needle position it depends on your location and such.

Also, don't expect a huge difference with just a 3x3 and jet kit. It'll feel a little smoother but that's about it

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i tend to agree, they should include a note with the screw telling you to run the right jet with it .. my opinion of the extended screw at this point is its really not necessary, it may be alittle tough to get to the stocker but once its unplugged, you jet it and set the screw you pretty much never touch it again, also the extended screw has more weight and without a spring under it thats in tip top shape it can have a problem staying set .. as far as needle clip i dont think it will make much difference, but its easy to change that so i suggest riding it for awhile where you got it and then trying the other position and riding that for awhile and see if its better     ....    personally i 'did' notice a huge difference when i jetted mine, erratic idle was gone, its starts almost instantly in any weather, random hiccups and cutouts at higher speeds was gone, and throttle response is much improved ...

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I recently made a purchase from JD jetting as well - an FCR rebuild kit.   I can't say I have had the exact experience as grouper, but I initially ordered the wrong kit (MX, not non-MX).  I spoke with them on the phone and they were very nice - sent me the proper kit asap - however when it arrived it was missing 5 parts, which I wasn't too pleased about since I've been waiting on parts while the weather is stellar for riding.   Not sure they know how that happened but I spoke with them on the phone again and they sent me the remaining pieces immediately ... though I'm still short 1 piece but haven't figured out which one it is ...I've got all I need so I'm good to go.   So aside from the snafu on my part, and the snafu on their part - they were very accommodating with good customer service.  If I had to order from JD again I would.   Just be sure a] you order the right thing :goofy: and b] all parts were sent :D

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Personally, I wouldn't rely on JD to advise you correctly, given my experience with JD and a EXC300 I wanted to run 'cleaner'.

I've run the BSR, open exhaust, which ran very nicely and am currently running the FCR. With the BSR I had a 142 MJ, 22.5 PJ and the DJ spring and needle and it ran pretty well at 1,300 and higher in the mountainous interior of BC. When at the coast I do think it was a little lean on the MJ and should have stepped it up a notch.

As for the PJ, I eventually installed a 25PJ and it didn't help in any way except the bike started cold a little easier(I have the Keintech as well) and feel I should have left the 22.5 installed.

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There are so many variables when it comes to jetting,

OEM service manual charts and JD kits should get you in the ballpark but,

you still have to fine tune for YOUR specific conditions. (which are always changing)

 

What runs 'perfect' in my YZ125 is likely considered way too lean for most other riders.

With race fuel, short straightaway tracks, reduced squish volume, I can get away with it, where in other scenarios it would likely seize the engine.

Edited by mlatour
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Thanks for the reply's guys. I appreciate them. 

Dramabeats: ill be disappointed if all it does is smooth her out. I initially found many many posts from members who only did a jd jet kit and the 3x3 mod with stock exhaust and where blown away with the power difference. But I suppose to each there own and thats their subjective right? :thumbsup: Ill be sure to post my thoughts once she's dialed in correctly.

cowpie: I appreciate your agreeance. At this point Ill take your advice, and leave the blue needle on the third clip and ride her for a while. If I feel like shes lacking in the top end, or even the next time I have the fuel tank off, I can try the forth clip down, just for an experiment...:prof:

hackbenjamin: Glad to hear your good to go! :ride:

Ive come up with another question this morning:

Can anyone tell me if there  is any performance benefit from running the 22.5 pilot and keintech extended fuel screw VS the JD 25 pilot screw and the stock air screw. I was thinking, It will only take a second for me to swap the fuel screws, leave the 25 pilot in their, and get me ripping the bike sooner! That being said, Im not the kind of guy to cut corners, and settle... I will definitely replace the pilot jet if there is a performance benefit. 

To shorten the question:

In a performance only comparison:

Stock #22.5 Pilot and extended keintech air/fuel screw

VS

JD #25 Pilot and Stock air/fuel screw

Thoughts based on experience?

Thanks again for the help everyone :D

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26 minutes ago, shuswap1 said:

Personally, I wouldn't rely on JD to advise you correctly, given my experience with JD and a EXC300 I wanted to run 'cleaner'.

I've run the BSR, open exhaust, which ran very nicely and am currently running the FCR. With the BSR I had a 142 MJ, 22.5 PJ and the DJ spring and needle and it ran pretty well at 1,300 and higher in the mountainous interior of BC. When at the coast I do think it was a little lean on the MJ and should have stepped it up a notch.

As for the PJ, I eventually installed a 25PJ and it didn't help in any way except the bike started cold a little easier(I have the Keintech as well) and feel I should have left the 22.5 installed.

Hey Shuswap1 (ill be heading to adams lake for a 1 week family reunion for the first of July. I like that part of BC:thumbsup:

Im curios, I dont believe My JD kit came with any springs? There was two needles, a bunch of mains, one pilot, and four black float bowl screws.. No spring?? 

Edited by Grouper
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The spring reference is for the fuel screw. Use the spring off your old screw on the new kientech screw along with the o ring. Beware that for whatever reason the keintech screws are known to back out on their own, I put a piece of duct tape on mine after adjustment (fortunately found near out at a scenic view stop)

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10 hours ago, Grouper said:

Hi guys,  

Picked up a 08 DR-Z400S a couple weeks ago. Love the thing.. But like most of us, I was bit with the need for more speed only after a few good rides. After scanning through some google and TT searches it quickly became obvious, throw a JD kit in it, cut the 3x3 hole in the airbox, and get back to shredding... but quicker and smoother than before.... these searches  made it an easy choice.  And hey, while i'm at it, might as well get one of those kientech extended fuel mixture screws, just to make life easier....why not? Everyone seems to suggest it..... decided to order both the jet kit and the extended screw directly from the JD website. I figured this would insure the best possible customer service, and support down the road if needed.  

A week passes and the jet kit finally arrives, but to my horror they appear to have forgotten the extended fuel screw! But nope, it was conveniently placed inside the JD Jet kit box. How thoughtful of them! :)   Everything in my life went on hold and in goes the jet kit, and extended screw, following instructions to a T.... 3x3 hole opened up exc...

I was excited, Gitty, and could hardly wait to let the fuel finish filling the float before I flashed her up. and then it happend... it just wasnt right... idle was slightly rough, sharp throttle snaps off idle where less than ideal, and taking the bike for a rip was definitely an improvement, but I was no way blown away... 

Back on the hoist she goes to start fine tuning the fuel/air mixture screw... -HEY! good thing I bought the extended screw to make this easier! Well it turns out I was able to tighten the fuel/air ratio all the way in till snug with hardly any noticeable rpm difference. All signs point to the pilot jet being to large. But how could that be!? I  installed the 25 pilot just like the instructions told me. I did everything exactly as outlined in the instructions!  After playing with it some more, just to keep coming up with the same conclusion.... I need to install a smaller pilot jet. I hit the google machine and TT search and starting digging into pilot jet issues with the JD kit. And all of a sudden with a few different phrases in my search, I come up with a handful of people explaining you need to run the stock 22.5 pilot when you run the keintech extended fuel screw. One post mentioned it was a different taper.. WTF

So heres the 1st point of my rant...

Why the F@%^ didn't the JD website mention this difference in taper on their web site, when I ordered the kit, with the keinteck instructions, even when they went as far as to open the jet kit packaging, and place this extended screw in their products packaging! It really ticked me off.. lol now Ive got to replace this pilot jet tomorrow morning before work instead of going for a ride on my new faster bike! :/

and the 2nd point.. 

This deeper research into JD jet kit issues has brought up a few mentions of people having better running bikes using the 4th clip on the blue needle, instead of the suggested 3rd clip. Can anybody chime in on this for me, and give me feed back? I know I could probly search for this, but if anybody feels like throwing me a bone on this one, I really dont think I can do any more JD jet kit googling tonight without my eyes going cross eyed! also obviously if I have to pull er apart again tomorrow morning, it would be nice to kill two birds with one stone :)

possibly my rant is emotion based, and I should have spent longer and dug deeper before I made my purchase?

Current set up: (till tomorrow morning)

'08 dr-z400s 

stock exhaust, 3x3 hole cut. moose oiled air filter....

155 main

blue needle 3rd clip down

25 pilot

keintech extened air screw screwed all the way in.... grrr

sea level, Southern Westcoast Vancouver Island, Humid and usually 10-20c  degrees this time of year... 

Yeah, why doesn't everyone do their research for you and read your mind?

Why don't companies put in parts that not every one uses or needs or wants, just to make you happy?

Why do you think spending money on a thing solves another thing?

Why indeed. 

Whiney fingerpointing BS post.

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You can't spend a few hours googling the internet and expect to be an expert tuner.It ain't gonna happen.Jetting recommendations are only a baseline,every bike is different.A good understanding of carb theory and a little patience will go a long way.

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46 minutes ago, Krannie McKranface said:

Yeah, why doesn't everyone do their research for you and read your mind?

Why don't companies put in parts that not every one uses or needs or wants, just to make you happy?

Why do you think spending money on a thing solves another thing?

Why indeed. 

Whiney fingerpointing BS post.

Hey McKranface,

thanks for the feedback. Maybe a little harsh :foul:  Lol. I guess it's a live and learn experience for me...

I didn't mean to throw off a bad attitude to you guys. I'll try and be more careful with future posts... 

But I can't help but asking you, when did I apply that spending more money on a thing solves another thing? I'm not sure where that came from. The last thing I have is money to throw around. Lol this jet kit and extended needle was a treat for me..

Also, I believe if you google the drz400 JD jet kit, the vast majority of the post I see Dont mention the 25 pilot jet issue with an extended air screw. I did do my research, just not deep enough. My bad. 

Also, I'll stand by my opinion that Jd jets website should note the difference taper (or whatever it is) that the keintech screw uses. That was pretty much the point of the original post. They advertised, sold, packages togeather a product, and didn't note, warn, or mention it has a different taper than original. Not that they are required to... but why wouldn't they? -im not expecting them to give me 100 different scenarios for 100 different product they don't even produce, but a note mentioning, it threads in the hole, but actually is a different screw.. woulda been cool :thumbsup:

And lastly, Im not sure when I wanted people to read my mind, and Do my research for me, I just asked the great people on this forum to throw me a bone if they could on the 3rd and 4th needle clip question, because I would be getting up early to replace the PJ and just couldn't research any more that night without getting  a headache from looking at a screen. I wouldn't have got upset or offended if no-one replied at all.

i didn't want to start a flame war, I'd rather spend my time and energy on my bike.

im heading to the garage now to switch pilots, I'll report back... if anyone cares.

 

 

IMG_1121.PNG

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34 minutes ago, bumtarder said:

You can't spend a few hours googling the internet and expect to be an expert tuner.It ain't gonna happen.Jetting recommendations are only a baseline,every bike is different.A good understanding of carb theory and a little patience will go a long way.

Hey bumtarder, well said and understood. Thank you. 

1 hour ago, kcposty said:

The spring reference is for the fuel screw. Use the spring off your old screw on the new kientech screw along with the o ring. Beware that for whatever reason the keintech screws are known to back out on their own, I put a piece of duct tape on mine after adjustment (fortunately found near out at a scenic view stop)

Good to know. Thanks for the wisdom. 

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My bike is a E with a big bore kit so a stock DRZ is quite a bit slower to me

My friend bought a 17, i rode it and then he did the 3x3, jet kit and yoshi exhaust all at once.

It didn't feel all that different to me, just louder.

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Mckran is a little out of line there, but Bumtarter is right with the tuning info, even the JD recommondations won't work perfect for everyone. My bikes same as yours but I have a BB kit and with the 22.5 my fuel screw is best setting is at 1\2 turn out.

July 1st weekend I'm heading to Vernon from lowermainland, I my go by that area your going to be at.

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The spring I referred to is the slide spring, which my DJ kit came with. The only components of the DJ kit that were installed in my BSR was the spring and the needle. The carb worked very well overall. When I added the Keintech and the 25PJ I think it was a small step backwards.

I've operated 2 other DRZs that did not run as well or put out the power of my old 2003 with this kit in the BSR. The FCR was a pretty small improvement, better off-idle response as well.

The entire Shuswap area is fantastic. Adam's Lake offers quite a bit of FSR riding, should you bring your bike along. OR, head up towards Sunpeaks for some tougher singletrack, which I usually avoid, to be honest. Be careful if riding FSR on the west side and northwest end of the lake, the loggers are VERY aggressive and impatient and dangerous. If you get over to Momich...and Seymour Arm, it's just great!

After borrowing my bro's place in Scotch Creek for more than 10 years we just bought a place of our own there. Needs work but the bones are good!

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I initially found many many posts from members who only did a jd jet kit and the 3x3 mod with stock exhaust and where blown away with the power difference. But I suppose to each there own and thats their subjective right? 

 

I did the 3x3 / jet kit and a slip on at the same time. My brand new SM went from only being able to pull the front tire off the ground about 6 " to snapping right up with low end power in 1st and 2nd gear.

I don't know where you're at now but start saving for an exhaust, it will help.

Even then, it's still going to take considerable work to make the bike as powerful as any other 400 manufactured in the last 17 years. 1 positive note is each additional mod can be done 1 piece at a time and make a noticable improvement. Your best $ for HP path would be an exhaust next followed by an intake cam; all the while with an eye out for a good deal on a Keihin FCR carburetor.

 

 

 

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Thanks to the OP for this thread. I have experienced the same performance issues and now I have a bead on why. I also find that the bike stalls going downhill - clutch in, and also when I chop the throttle when slipping the clutch on single track. This didn't happen until after the JD kit install. I'll be swapping out my 25pj for the stock 22.5pj now to see if that will remedy things. 

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