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TTX Flow SHock


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  • 2 weeks later...

It blows away my stock WP shock on my Sherco. Woods, rocks, roots, river beds and 3' drops all are noticeable better. Gone is the inconsistent kick-up and is much faster getting back to the ground. I was worried about the loss of LS/HS compression adjuster but haven't miss it yet.

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  • 2 years later...
2 hours ago, pomoco said:

I just put one on my 18 tx300 and absolutely love it. The added traction on rough terrain is amazing. I run harescrambles and enduros as well as trail racing with whoever I'm riding with

I have one on my 2019 FX350. While not as big of a difference as on my Sherco but still better then a stocker.

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 I am a suspension snob. Being 64, missing fingers on both hands since age 10 suspension has been huge for me to be able to hold on. Started MX in 1976,offroad in 1979.

 I have tinkered, revalved/resprung, Tried every type of suspension except Dal Saggio closed cartridges. Not a fan of Ohlins forks, or cone valves. Best fork is a reworked 2010 WP closed cartridge fork, plush initially with good bottoming resistance.

 I have run Ohlins shocks on my KTM's since 2001, when my WP blew apart on my 520. Only available shock in the US was an Ohlins.

 I tried revalving the WP on my 2016 450SXF, after 3 or 4 attempts, went to the TTX Ohlins shock. Too stiff (MX setting ) to begin with,

worked very well after a revalve.

 To get to the point, I bought a  stock used Ohlins MX Flow from a 55yr old MX'er. Bolted it on my 16 450 sxf and without tweaking,revalving it was noticeably plusher for off-road than the revalved TTX on my buddiesHusky 450..  Good bottoming resistance and PLUSH. I thought the lack of high/low speed would bother me, but I haven't noticed an issue. In comparisons with the TTX and a recent Kreft revalve, the Flow was plusher with no noticeable downside. After riding the flow back to back with the revalved TTX, my buddy bought a new flow and sold his TTX.

 I own 2 offroad motosports parks in Washington state and try to swing a leg over and ride almost anything that is purported to be good. Yamahas, Betas, Hondas, Kreft, Factory Connection, EVO, etc. I have yet to ride anything that felt better than the Ohlins on my offroad tracks ( loamy, rocky, G-outs, severe chop sections).

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/10/2019 at 10:15 AM, Scoott said:

 I am a suspension snob. Being 64, missing fingers on both hands since age 10 suspension has been huge for me to be able to hold on. Started MX in 1976,offroad in 1979.

 I have tinkered, revalved/resprung, Tried every type of suspension except Dal Saggio closed cartridges. Not a fan of Ohlins forks, or cone valves. Best fork is a reworked 2010 WP closed cartridge fork, plush initially with good bottoming resistance.

 I have run Ohlins shocks on my KTM's since 2001, when my WP blew apart on my 520. Only available shock in the US was an Ohlins.

 I tried revalving the WP on my 2016 450SXF, after 3 or 4 attempts, went to the TTX Ohlins shock. Too stiff (MX setting ) to begin with,

worked very well after a revalve.

 To get to the point, I bought a  stock used Ohlins MX Flow from a 55yr old MX'er. Bolted it on my 16 450 sxf and without tweaking,revalving it was noticeably plusher for off-road than the revalved TTX on my buddiesHusky 450..  Good bottoming resistance and PLUSH. I thought the lack of high/low speed would bother me, but I haven't noticed an issue. In comparisons with the TTX and a recent Kreft revalve, the Flow was plusher with no noticeable downside. After riding the flow back to back with the revalved TTX, my buddy bought a new flow and sold his TTX.

 I own 2 offroad motosports parks in Washington state and try to swing a leg over and ride almost anything that is purported to be good. Yamahas, Betas, Hondas, Kreft, Factory Connection, EVO, etc. I have yet to ride anything that felt better than the Ohlins on my offroad tracks ( loamy, rocky, G-outs, severe chop sections).

Thank you for this perspective.  For my 2021 150 XCW I've been debating between the Ohlins shock, upgrades to the stock unit, and the National. I don't love the idea of putting money into the stock shock, and the National seems like overkill - in terms of features, and price.  I never thought that Ohlins would seem like the "value" choice!!

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1 hour ago, Jesse Haifley said:

National seems like overkill - in terms of features, and price. 

As a owner of a National Shock, I just wanted to share my opinion on it. 

The Natty is basically a 'works' shock, exactly what Jeremy intended it to be. It would seem a bit "overkill", but what's offered only allows the user a larger range of adjustment, more finer tuning, and can work within a wider window when it comes to terrain. 

As for price, depending on your approach, the Natty for me has been cheaper to own. My Natty has been on a Beta, Husky, KTM and now my Kawi with only a clevis change and slight adjustment to the valving. Trying to get the same performance as a Natty, adding additional parts to a stock shock such as pistons/bladders/adjusters have added up to more then a $1000 per shock. Over 4 different bikes you are looking at $4000 that you will likely never recoup when you sell the bike. Shock springs are not interchangeable from those brands when it's the stock shocks, but the Natty uses the same springs across the board (just different rates).

If and when I sell the Natty, anyone with those models I mentioned could buy it and use it. Unfortunately the Ohlins and WP doesn't offer that when purchasing their shock. 

The XCW does use an entirely different style of Natty Shock due to its non link design but likely a body change (unverified) could get it working with other brands in the future. 

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3 hours ago, Hans Schmid said:

The XCW does use an entirely different style of Natty Shock due to its non link design but likely a body change (unverified) could get it working with other brands in the future. 

There's a lot more going on with the PDS style shock than the shock body. Top of the shock, needle, and 2nd piston.

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On 11/23/2021 at 7:56 AM, Hans Schmid said:

As a owner of a National Shock, I just wanted to share my opinion on it. 

The Natty is basically a 'works' shock, exactly what Jeremy intended it to be. It would seem a bit "overkill", but what's offered only allows the user a larger range of adjustment, more finer tuning, and can work within a wider window when it comes to terrain. 

As for price, depending on your approach, the Natty for me has been cheaper to own. My Natty has been on a Beta, Husky, KTM and now my Kawi with only a clevis change and slight adjustment to the valving. Trying to get the same performance as a Natty, adding additional parts to a stock shock such as pistons/bladders/adjusters have added up to more then a $1000 per shock. Over 4 different bikes you are looking at $4000 that you will likely never recoup when you sell the bike. Shock springs are not interchangeable from those brands when it's the stock shocks, but the Natty uses the same springs across the board (just different rates).

If and when I sell the Natty, anyone with those models I mentioned could buy it and use it. Unfortunately the Ohlins and WP doesn't offer that when purchasing their shock. 

The XCW does use an entirely different style of Natty Shock due to its non link design but likely a body change (unverified) could get it working with other brands in the future. 

Thank you very much Hans.

This is exactly the sort of analysis that I've been trying to do.  I'm willing to pay up for a good product that will last, and which I can tweak over time as needed, but I'm also cautious about overpaying for the sexy stuff that doesn't really give me anything that cheaper options can provide. Able to spend money but anxious about wasting money, you might say.  And since this is new territory for me, my decision-making confidence is low.  I've been riding for a few years, but this is the first year that I've gotten highly motivated about having "serious" suspension. I guess that buying transferable units (complete shocks, fork cartridges, complete forks) seems a bit less risky since they could easily follow me to future bikes if I like them, or could probably be more easily sold if they didn't work out for me.  This thinking has cooled me on Kreft, which I was earlier quite drawn towards.

My 200RR has the upgraded OEM tank in back and the Ohlins inserts in front.  I apparently broke something in my stock cartridges, and my dealer could put in the Ohlins for just a few hundred bucks more than the OEM replacements, so I decided to give them a try.  I have not yet developed a strong opinion about that set-up, though.  Partly because I've been putting more time on the 150 lately.  From reading the forums, the Luckys seem to get stronger reviews than the Ohlins.

At the moment I am leaning towards the Lucky cartridges up front, and debating between the National and the TTX Flow for the rear.  The MXT ORVS has also been in the running for the forks, but I like the simpler DIY aspect of the inserts.  I've not yet got a handle on what I'll be up against if I choose to tackle suspension service and tuning myself. Saw a video of a TTX Flow being serviced, and I'm guessing that the oil vacuum / pump machine would be prohibitive, for example.

Your endorsement of the National is good to hear.  I watched a YT video showing it taken apart, and the bottoming cup feature seems clever.  When I say "overkill" I guess I'm thinking of the multiple adjusters and their many shims and springs, and the trick coatings.  I understand the theory behind the coatings, but have been skeptical about whether or not I'd really experience / enjoy the benefits of those, compared to the price premium. Some forum guys also bitch about the National needing more frequent service, to replace the little springs. The TTX Flow design looks "dumber", but high-quality.

But your positive feedback on the shock inclines me to say "to hell with it" and order it and the Luckys from Slavens, and put an end to this seemingly endless research project!  I want to be spending my time improving my riding, not forever screwing around with my suspension!  Ideally, I'd settle on an approach, and just set all my bikes up with that same set of products from here on out.

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14 minutes ago, Jesse Haifley said:

doesn't really give me anything that cheaper options can provide

This will always be a sticking point for most. With all my testing and experience, there is a good possibility I have never found the true potential of what a stock shock is capable of (and not for a lack of trying).

Suspension is basically how far you want to go!? How many revalves, aftermarket parts, testing, unbolting, bolting back up are willing to go through? I've done about 60 sets of suspension and it's a lot of friggin work in itself. 

I wanted to experiment and see how good a aftermarket shock was in comparison and felt the National was the best option as you do 'start' with a better product. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Jesse Haifley said:

Some forum guys also bitch about the National needing more frequent service

Higher tolerance and better quality parts...so not sure where those guys are getting their information? I've had my Natty for 3yrs and service it less regularly then I did my stock shock... 

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43 minutes ago, Jesse Haifley said:

I guess I'm thinking of the multiple adjusters

Imagine clickers like candy bars... You get alot of options and you might try different ones, but over time you always go back to the same 2 or 3. I very rarely touch my clickers these days... 

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5 hours ago, Hans Schmid said:

Higher tolerance and better quality parts...so not sure where those guys are getting their information? I've had my Natty for 3yrs and service it less regularly then I did my stock shock... 

The complaint that I remember had to do with the little coil springs behind the adjusters breaking from fatigue.  Even if true, I wouldn't mind too much, assuming that they can be replaced DIY without much fuss.

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6 hours ago, Hans Schmid said:

This will always be a sticking point for most. With all my testing and experience, there is a good possibility I have never found the true potential of what a stock shock is capable of (and not for a lack of trying).

Suspension is basically how far you want to go!? How many revalves, aftermarket parts, testing, unbolting, bolting back up are willing to go through? I've done about 60 sets of suspension and it's a lot of friggin work in itself. 

I wanted to experiment and see how good a aftermarket shock was in comparison and felt the National was the best option as you do 'start' with a better product. 

 

Makes sense.  Just curious if you ever gave the TTX Flow a try, or maybe you landed on the National first and stayed there.

What have you settled on for a fork strategy / solution?

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5 minutes ago, Jesse Haifley said:

Makes sense.  Just curious if you ever gave the TTX Flow a try, or maybe you landed on the National first and stayed there.

What have you settled on for a fork strategy / solution?

I have zero personal experience with an Ohlins shock. I have ridden one but it was long ago. For the fork, just the stock KX450 fork with a slight shim shuffle. I felt the fork was quite good in faster GNCC terrain but lacked some plushness in the more technical slower speed stuff offered in our races. My AER forks were all stock but valved. I challenged my tuner to develop a setting with just a shim shuffle and he came up with something pretty amazing. He still uses my settings in many of his customers bikes. 

My tuner (Geoff at GP MOTO) deals with MX-TECH and lent me his National shock. Below is my initial experience that led me to buy one... 

 "I am not here to sell you a product:

"Try this protein powder, you'll get bigger", or "Buy these shoes, you'll run faster", or "Buy this bike, and you'll win more races". I've been both the guy trying to sell you something (in which I believed the products to be sound), and I've also been the guy buying these different products. For the most part, the results from many of them have been less then stellar. Some from my lack of commitment, others didn't meet my personal requirements, but mostly because they were simply J.U.N.K... 

So why do I feel a bolt on dirt-bike shock should be excluded from my original statement? Because I only want to sell you an experience...

I can only relate my experience as "threading the needle" as I felt most of this story is exactly that. Though the performance of the National Shock was recognized on paper, the reality of how good the National Shock really is became apparent when I hit the dirt. In 2nd gear, on the throttle hard coming out of a right hand turn into a straight stretch I never shut the throttle off as I threaded perfectly though a recent fresh cut log, approx. 15in in diameter and less then 12in apart hiding in the grass. It was at that moment the National Shock revealed how good suspension could really be. Not once did the fear of the rear end stepping out, the lose of traction or some unexplained event cause me to shut the throttle off. I could simply say it was confidence. In no other times in questionable traction conditions (or any conditions I imagine) would I have thought this was possible. That single experience has carried the way I have tested this shock since. I have 'threaded the needle' in most every situation I can think of and not once have a thought any less of the performance offered by this Mx-Tech National Shock. There wasn't an area I didn't feel the shock didn't offer top level performance above not only my stock shock, but my highly modified stock shock also by Mx-Tech. 

We have a sand track with a hard base that get baked in the summer, the rollers that develop are not of envy. They are difficult to time correctly, deep, rutted and offer no mercy to half-throttle riders. Even the best tire quickly if not conditioned. I hit the track with a bit of intimidation. but the result was a shock that never faulted. If it did bottom, I couldn't feel it... Maybe I imagine the shocks bottoming characteristics are one of those of dropping a bowling ball onto a mattress, not a concrete floor? Everything felt smooth, comfortable and in control, no packing or such. I do believe the shock overall was too soft for the kind of riding as it was setup for off-road but still... An example being a small step-up that you need to land off the previous jump and bounce back on top The shock was absorbing the impact and not giving me the full 'pop' or bounce I needed. I always clipped with top with the rear wheel but never out of control. If the stop-watch was on I bet I still did this section faster. Flat corners, bermed corners, inside or outside, I was able to put the bike where I wanted with more accuracy then before.

When coming into braking bumps both large and small, the National Shock followed the ground with more control, eliminating the 'shock or sting' of bottoming while not kicking in both a side to side/up and down direction. The bike felt stable and comfortable as the shock was not transferring any feedback through the bike either. Braking could be done considerably later, and with more precision and control. When coming into corners I could not only hit them faster but with more accuracy, which in turn allowed me to carry more speed out of the corners then Imight have been previously familiar with. The traction coming out allowed for the bike to push forward with more drive and confidence knowing the rear end was sticking to the ground and not hunting. Everything displayed was welcomed and not one single fault could be found.

Being a off-road guy I took to the trails as part of my test(s). In every single situation on my loops, the National Shock found traction that otherwise was not previously there due to the slippery conditions. Whether is was up some of the rock faces, or through rock gardens the shock followed the ground, never skipping, kicking or becoming unpredictable. The traction created more drive, in turn more momentum which allowed me to hit obstacle with not only more speed but more control too. I'm a good log hopper... Any size, angle, or multiples in a row I have always felt comfortable jumping them. The shock seemed to absorb them better with no kick. Lining up logs became easier, micro-corrections took less effort. Could I complain the shock was maybe a little too good in this are? When jumping logs in sequence, you want suspension a little firmer so you can get both the distance and height. Unfortunately the shock absorbed logs too well. When it came to ruts, or muliple ruts, the bike tracked straighter and didn't want to climb out. Side-hills could be hit with more speed and accuracy, and with less fear of the rear end stepping out causing you to slide to the valley bottom. 

Overall, two things I found to be most important are 1.) I could 'thread the needle' on every obstacle. I could do everything closer to the edge then I could have done before. I could hit a log straighter, jump off it farther while coming into a corner with braking bumps, brake late and get on the throttle sooner while lining up a rutted hill-climb. Straight up, I was faster. and with a higher level of confidence. The other being that because I could do this with less effort, I wasn't as tired as I might have been before. Since starting this review I have ridden multiple times with National Shock and every time has been better then the last as I am looking to find something that would show me otherwise, I haven't.

Edit: In my initial testing, I didn't have Mx-Techs supplied shock spring. When combined with the National shock (included in purchase) you get an approx. 1lb weight savings over the stock shock.

With all that being said, The Mx-Tech National Shock is on my short-list for Santa for 2020 off-road season. Its simply that good...."

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7 hours ago, Hans Schmid said:

Suspension is basically how far you want to go!? How many revalves, aftermarket parts, testing, unbolting, bolting back up are willing to go through? I've done about 60 sets of suspension and it's a lot of friggin work in itself. 

This is exactly true.  The idea of getting a revalve from any tuner you find on Google and having it be exactly what you want (especially if you are trying to push the suspension in races) is basically a fairy tale, or realistically happens a small percentage of the time, or applies to riders who are just happy to ride something that's not clapped out and a normal servicing would have done fine.  If you have some handling behavior you're chasing, it will be very iterative.  If you are doing this yourself, it's less expensive, but quite messy.  If you are having a tuner help you, you have someone else to bounce ideas off of and communicate with, but then you have the hassle of transport each time, and every time you open your suspension, you open yourself up to the effects of possible shit workmanship (someone else's, or yours).  At best, the build quality can be inconsistent from one rebuild to the next.  At worst, you'll get some dangerous crackhead shit.

So, best approach?  Start with a unit that is durable and repeatable.  Exotic units make things more complicated because someone has to learn it's peculiarities, whether it's you or the tuner.

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17 hours ago, GHILL28 said:

This is exactly true.  The idea of getting a revalve from any tuner you find on Google and having it be exactly what you want (especially if you are trying to push the suspension in races) is basically a fairy tale, or realistically happens a small percentage of the time, or applies to riders who are just happy to ride something that's not clapped out and a normal servicing would have done fine.  If you have some handling behavior you're chasing, it will be very iterative.  If you are doing this yourself, it's less expensive, but quite messy.  If you are having a tuner help you, you have someone else to bounce ideas off of and communicate with, but then you have the hassle of transport each time, and every time you open your suspension, you open yourself up to the effects of possible shit workmanship (someone else's, or yours).  At best, the build quality can be inconsistent from one rebuild to the next.  At worst, you'll get some dangerous crackhead shit.

So, best approach?  Start with a unit that is durable and repeatable.  Exotic units make things more complicated because someone has to learn it's peculiarities, whether it's you or the tuner.

Thank you for that.

I do consider it to be a plus for the Lucky & National that they have been around a while, are known, and fairly easy to source. (e.g.: Slavens sells both...)

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1 hour ago, Jesse Haifley said:

Thank you for that.

I do consider it to be a plus for the Lucky & National that they have been around a while, are known, and fairly easy to source. (e.g.: Slavens sells both...)

I’ve got the Lucky’s on both my ‘18 500EXC and ‘21 300 XCW.  Just bought a used Ohlins TTX Flow from a guy that bought it for his ‘18 500EXC.  Tried it on my 300 and liked but felt a bit stiff in the slow, rocky stuff.  Don’t know how much difference there is between valving for a 4T and a 2T.  It’s got just stock Ohlins valving.  Gonna try it on my 500 tomorrow.  Thinking about sending out to Corey at Protune as he’s done my Lucky’s…..

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