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Emissions? Explain the Yamaha 660 Super T? Only sold in European markets which from my understanding has tighter emission standards? Or the KTM 690? Or 600cc street bikes offered like the R6? I'm calling BS on emissions...

Money (you could wear out 3/4 KLR650s for the price of BMW or 2 KLR650s for the price of a KTM 690), durability and simplicity are the deciding factors. Very few KTM 690s around with 100k miles on them, but KLR650s, XR650 and DR650s everywhere. The market doesn't always demand the latest and greatest... 

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I think he is right.

The worlds nations have agreed to lower its CO2 emissions and what not. Fossil fuel vehicles will be frown upon by governments.

You guys in the US can still buy the DRZ400. It went out of sales over here in Europe in 2008 due to not meeting new EURO emission standards. When will it be banned in the US?

 

 

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Good video and that guy did a great job putting it together.  I can agree with him on a lot of things but I think calling this dooms day for dual-sports might be wrong.  He hopes he's wrong, I do too.  I am told by a very reliable source that all model year bikes year 18 and future will be red sticker bikes (California) aside from those that are street legal or dual sport.  Correct me if I am wrong but the writing is already on the wall with KTM and Husky as I don't think they still make a "green sticker" bike, they either have a "race bike" or a "plated bike", no green sticker models like 16 and newer models did.  Yamaha has sent a letter to dealers explaining this exact thing.  All bikes, unless plated, will be red sticker-yes, even the WR in model year 18 and future!  I don't know for certain what will happen. The guy in this video may very well be correct BUT I do think that most states have a tendency to follow CA's lead on most issues and I think the newer, stricter emissions reg's might just open peoples eyes to the thought of dual sport bikes.  It sure did for me.  I have a '16 Husky 300 two stroke and just bought a '16 501 with a plate because these changes are happening right under our noses and not many seem to be paying attention to them.  I got screwed in 2003 with the red-green sticker crap and I think it's happening again but I think this time it will be far more strict.  I guess I am trying to say that I think there might be a very good chance that the emissions regs that change CA may also change other states laws and if that happens, I think the demand for better dual sports may actually take off.  I hope so any way...  Maybe its just wishful thinking.

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Like I told the my dealer, if the WR would have been a 450 I would buy it right now. 300 lbs 250's aren't getting my money.
Hopefully if the rumors are true Yamaha does in fact have something special hidden up their sleeve.


I agree with the statement that manufacturers are happy to keep producing machines that have long since paid for their tooling and R&D cost. If they sell, why cut into your margin just for the sake of change?

I also think if emissions is truly the motivating factor we will see efi on some of our old favorites. Yamaha has already added it to the XT250. Suzuki has the system developed for the Z400 which could be transferred directly to the DRZ. With the cult like following of the KLR I feel like Kawasaki would almost certainly update the bike as well.

The only bike I would expect to not survive would be the last remaining Honda XR. My dollar bet says Honda will replace it with some sort of newer bike under the CRFxxxL badge.

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I'd read an article, but I'm not a video guy.

There are no shortages of Dual Sports in Washington dealerships. A light kit and a $20 inspection gets you a plate.

Dual Sport future looks quite bright in Washington. I even hear that the 2018 TE300 has fuel injection, which will do wonders for fuel economy and emissions (and performance)! :banana:

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I had to ponder a bit. I don't see dual sports going away, at least soon. Just too practical and too much fun. I think the dual sport does what the adventure bike pretends to.

If there is demand, the market will eventually satisfy it. I would like to think.

KTM 690 rider with previous ownership of 2-KLR 650's, and DS'ed DRZ400 kicker and WR450.

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Go to any dual sport event and you will see bikes from all manufacturers and from all years.  I think the demand for dual sport bikes will force the manufacturers to either update existing models or come up with a complete new design.  I spoke to a Yamaha guy at the Long Beach International Motorcycle Show and he said "There may be something new coming along".  I hope he is correct.

Yamaha has always been a leader in innovative new bikes...th YZ400F is a perfect example and for 2018 they have introduced an industry leading touring bike.  If any Jap manufacturer  is going to come out with a new DS bike my guess is it will be Yamaha.

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Honda needs to bring back the xr650r with fuel injection, an electric start and street legal from the factory and they would sell like hot cakes. 

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1 hour ago, Vanillagurilla said:

Honda needs to bring back the xr650r with fuel injection, an electric start and street legal from the factory and they would sell like hot cakes. 

If they can do so well below the almost 11k of the 690 R and 12k of the 701 E, probably!

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The current bikes, like the XR and DR 650s are "grandfathered," somehow. Once they can't meet emissions, they'll be dumped. The idea of a street legal XR650R is great, but it's going to be heavy with electric start, FI and the obligatory catalytic converter. 

I agree that whoever is first with an affordable big bore DS with all the fixins will sell a lot of them. Yamaha dumped the 250, but a 450 version with an honest 40 hp would sell, I bet. 

 

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so what. we have twenty years of dual sports to choose from if they cease production today. but they won't. 

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 Jap dual sports my be going extinct, but not the orange KTMs, or the white KTM's. They are coming in all sorts of flavors.

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32 minutes ago, wielywilly-g said:

 Jap dual sports my be going extinct, but not the orange KTMs, or the white KTM's. They are coming in all sorts of flavors.

I think Jap dual sports will go on, but they'll struggle to add FI, cats, meet emissions, and manage to keep the weight down while sitting at a certain price point.  KTM dodges a lot of regs because they're not sold in big volumes. They're expensive and need more maintenance. If you want a high performance dirt bike with lights, and money is no object, they can't be beat. In most states, you can install a kit on your WR or RM or KX or CR, and also have a legal dirt bike for less than a KTM. If I just wanted to plate a dirt bike, that's what I'd do.

The WR250R was discontinued. It was an excellent bike, but the Honda is cheaper. I still think that if Yamaha could give us a 40+ hp 450 version of it and keep the weight down, they'd sell like hotcakes. 

Any of the big 4 could do it. We'll see who goes first. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Happy Dave said:

I think Jap dual sports will go on, but they'll struggle to add FI, cats, meet emissions, and manage to keep the weight down while sitting at a certain price point.  KTM dodges a lot of regs because they're not sold in big volumes. They're expensive and need more maintenance. If you want a high performance dirt bike with lights, and money is no object, they can't be beat. In most states, you can install a kit on your WR or RM or KX or CR, and also have a legal dirt bike for less than a KTM. If I just wanted to plate a dirt bike, that's what I'd do.

The WR250R was discontinued. It was an excellent bike, but the Honda is cheaper. I still think that if Yamaha could give us a 40+ hp 450 version of it and keep the weight down, they'd sell like hotcakes. 

Any of the big 4 could do it. We'll see who goes first. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe the KTM 690EnduroR to be low maintanance, but 11 grand and both afterarket and OEM parts are double the price.

Here in Illinois it is almost impossible to plate a dirt bike now days.  

We need the 2018 plated XR650R with estart for $6000... or two for the price of my enduro R! 

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40 minutes ago, wielywilly-g said:

I believe the KTM 690EnduroR to be low maintanance, but 11 grand and both afterarket and OEM parts are double the price.

Here in Illinois it is almost impossible to plate a dirt bike now days.  

We need the 2018 plated XR650R with estart for $6000... or two for the price of my enduro R! 

Clearly, whichever Jap co. makes a dual sport that can make good power at the right price point, they'll cash in, given that dual sports are not hot sellers here in the US. I once had an XR650R. It was an awesome ride. 

They have to address the seat height, among other things. I'm tall enough, but most people aren't. 

Note that the Africa Twin has a low seat for the design. 

Edited by Happy Dave
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There is always going to be a market for off road bikes.  If emissions rules get much stricter, even motocross bikes will have to meet standards so strict that they are forced to use catalytic converters on the OEM exhausts.  

Once the manufacturers have to go to that extent with their off road bikes, they will be 95% of the way to meeting street-legal emissions standards.  

I see more manufacturers doing it like KTM is doing it with their EXC line.  Selling off road bikes that meet the standards for being street legal.  

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