Topend parts checklist (What's needed-2016)

[Bitteeinbit]

Hey guys, I'm at around 90 hours on my FE450 (2016). I just checked the valve clearance a few hours ago and all is still perfectly in spec. Because of where I live, it takes several weeks for parts to arrive when I order them, so just want to make sure I've got everything needed for a topend when the time comes (~110-130 hours I figure). As far as I know (coming off a WR) and looking at the Husky/KTM parts fiche, this is what I should need:

1-Base gasket (7803003500)

2-Head gasket (78930036010)

3-Piston kit (I'm going for aftermarket)

4-Cam/timing chain (78036013000 or might go aftermarket too)

Am I missing anything? As far as I know, that's all I need right? I won't touch the valves this time around since they're still fine, but the dealer has killer prices on OEM head and base gasket (cheaper than aftermarket) so I wanted to buy from him, but he doesn't sell a full topend gasket kit, just individual gaskets. Are there any other gaskets or seals which would come in a kit which I would need, or am I ok with just the base gasket, head gasket and piston (obviously piston will come with rings/rod/circlip etc)? The stock picture of the ProX head and base gasket set on rockymountain seems to include a bunch of smaller o-rings, dowels, and maybe a copper crush washer or something as well (might just be a stock picture and not bike specific). So I'm just wondering if I'm better off getting a kit from ProX or just OEM head and base gaskets all I need... 

In my experience conrods last a long time, so I don't think I'll be changing mine, but will check clearance anyways once it's open. Lastly, has anyone ever used a ProX piston? I know Vertex comes stock on the bike, but ProX are quite cheap ($99!) on rockymountain at the moment. For some reason that's cheaper than most 250 pistons...

Edited June 27, 2017 by Bitteeinbit

[Spud786]

the wrist pin is DLC coated, so you'll need that.  I have near 600 hours on original motor, doesn't burn a drop.

IMO, if going aftermarket, just ride the oem parts longer , 100 hours is just broke in if you've protected the intake AIR.

Ive monitored cam chain movement since new, not seeing any stretch to be concerned with

 

are you sure its not  Mahle piston oem, they have the funny circlip that needs a special tool for installation   , seems to be a solid piston?

Edited June 27, 2017 by Spud786

[Bitteeinbit]

Wow, 600 hours?! I'm guessing you dual-sport yours? I ride pretty hard so I doubt I'll get anything like that out of mine, even though I'm careful with the air filter and oil changes. Still, I'm at 85-90 hours and it doesn't burn a drop and valves in spec. I checked the camchain when looking at my valves and it seemed new. Tried pulling (not sure if I can do it or still under pressure) and no slack at all. I don't plan on doing it anytime soon, like I said, minimum 130 but I'll keep going until it burns a bit of oil maybe (or 150). I also don't want to wait too long and have a scored cylinder that needs to be replaced, thus my ~110-150 target. However, I want to accumulate the parts now so I don't have any downtime when the time does come. Plus, I ride around 20-30 hours per month so it won't take me that long to get there... 

Not sure what manufacturer makes the OEM one. I thought it was VErtex, but that might be the older KTMs. Just that in my experience, OEM just means more expensive, not necessarily better quality. Even if it's better quality and OEM lasts say, 150 hours vs 100 with aftermarket, you can rebuild the engine four times with aftermarket parts so I don't get the point of always going OEM. Interesting about the wrist pin being DLC coated. I might buy that separately then and add it to whatever piston I end up buying. 

Anyways, I'll buy head and base gaskets tomorrow from the dealer. They're so cheap vs standard pricing (~$25!) so at least I'll have them for later. I'll get the camchain later and piston last. Just slowly accumulating what I need. No other gaskets needed right? Maybe get some spare dowels in case I mess one up?

[Spud786]

The 2012 500's through 16 should be the mahle piston, vertex has been used on other models, the Mahle has a circlip that cant spin, very unique, has a big tail on it.

 

The 17' 500 don't use Mahle any more(think it is vertex)   , not sure on the 16 450 , but I think its the same 500 rod, but diffent piston

look down the hole with valve cover off , count teeth you see off the tensioner, that's ho you tract the wear, if you see more than 6 or 7 teeth, then you probably have some wear. Ive tracked since new, not moving.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Spud786

[Bitteeinbit]

Yeah I saw that circlip in the workshop manual when reading up on doing the topend. The head part has a notch to go into. I doubt a special tool is aneeded, but it's probably a bit difficult to put in. Either way, the aftermarket manufacturers usually go off the stock one when designing their pistons. I did just notice that the ProX is cast vs forged (but in a specific way that supposedly makes it low friction, like those made by Jap manufacturers). I don't know, I'll look at more options for pistons later (I still think $300+ for stock is taking the piss). . My main concern were the gaskets, since I wanted to buy them from the dealer ASAP before they get snatched up by someone else, but was worried the two gaskets wouldn't be enough and I'd then have to spend again on a kit. However, it seems those two gaskets are all that's needed.

I'm not sure I understand: count the teeth off the tensioner? By tensioner you mean the long piece of plastic? What teeth am I looking for, from the camshaft? So if the chain is a bit loose, it'll dangle off the sides a bit and I'll be able to see some teeth, but if it's taut enough, I won't be able to see any? Thanks for your help. I guess I didn't check the right way then. I thought there was noise from the cam so I had a look when checking valves, but I think it was nothing. I still think it's good insurance to change my timing chain when doing the piston though since I'm in there already. 

[Spud786]

Yeah, the oem kit has to be bought in one shot, cant really be piece parted (price wise) . Like $380 for whats needed, but I run  high rpm to trails and jumps ,Full throttle a lot.

Always make sure my bike is warmed before hammering, and track the intake quality.  Im not running it like an mxer, clutch ripping out of every corner, but its not a Putted around type of use either.

There was a guy recently posted at 330 hours did a top end, everything in great shape, didn't need it.    I know guys with near 1000 hours on original piston

 

take some pictures on your tear down

 

Yeah with valve cover off, you can see the tensioner teeth extending towards the chain, as chain wears you'll see more teeth extending, Ive seen no movement, suggesting chain wear.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by Spud786

[Bitteeinbit]

If I can get 300 before a rebuild, I'll gladly spend on the OEM parts, haha. I'll check the camchain next time. I do the same as you: fresh air filters and inspect behind it, change oil every 10 hours or so etc.

Do you mean the OEM piston kit or gasket kit can't be bought separately? I just bought the base gasket and head gasket separately today just in case. Only $25 or so for both (on special)! Looking at the parts fiche the piston kit includes head gasket, base gasket and piston, so I don't think I wasted money. Head gasket isn't like Yamahas, it's three pieces of metal which I guess get squished together.



If you meant piston kit, well I wouldn't try to buy the piston kit separately part by part obviously, just too many parts. The way I see it now, I'll just have to buy OEM piston kit now (or aftermarket) and maybe a camchain for good measure . I'll wait a few weeks before ordering but when I do the top end I'll definitely post pics. A friend has a KTM 450, (same year) and he did his at 110 hours. He raced his but said it didn't need it so told me to aim for 130-150. I think I might have misplaced the air filter once (backside was MAYBE not fully in) so I'm freaking out a bit. Probably nothing or just my imagination as it still runs fine (besides a battery that's close to dieing). I'm happy I went with Husky tbh (or orange). Good bikes.

[Spud786]

your 450 is actually a cheaper oem kit than the 500,  parts ficsh item 3 kit looks like whats left to be needed.  I think it was under $250, pin , circlips and piston/rings.

AMOC has the circlip tool(assuming Mahle piston), which would be a requirement for me, to not risk tweaking a circlip. In case you try to find.

 

looks like you got a good deal on some gaskets