One oil for all my bikes?

[Moto Mike]

Hi all, long time member, just coming back to bikes after a 10+ year detour for family and career. 

So, now the garage is kinda full, wondering if I can simplify my maintenance by only having to use one oil for all my 4 stroke bikes.  Thinking someone else around here has already figured this out,

Here is what is in the garage, 

2014 Suzuki V-Strom 1000

2006 Suzuki DRZ400

2004 Yamaha TTR125 

2006 Yamaha WR450f

and a Yamaha 2016 Dual Sport, XT250

I have run AmsOil in my MBZ diesels for years and hundreds of thousands of miles.  I have yet to look up every bikes specs, but I am thinking *might be a bad thing* that I should be able to get a high quality synthetic that will work in all the bikes, 

Thoughts? 

 

Thanks

[highmarker]

2.5 gallon jug of 15w40 Rotella from Walmarche

Edited June 29, 2017 by highmarker

[ossagp]

I have good luck with any of the 15-40 oils ([primarily intended for diesels).  My favorite being Dello400.  In the cold weather mine sometimes work in it just gets pressure on the gauge faster than the other conventional oils do, on my 14 litre engines.  Shell however felt it worth the expense to get their Rotella line JASCO rated.   So you find a lot of people using Rotella,  and living quite happily in everything from cbr's to two stroke transmissions.  

Edited June 30, 2017 by ossagp

[Chuck.]

For decades I've used Rotella or Delo in all of my diesels and cars that didn't require a synthetic long change interval oil.  I also run it in my XRs because of the shared tranny/wet clutch. I have a high lift cam in my current XR and the cam grinder was very specific about using a synthetic oil with adequate anti wear additives and only two were approved; Motul 300V and Redline.  Any production bike with a stock cam shouldn't need those oils, but I have them on hand so they get used in my CRF250X.

I think the important things are; oil that is compatible with the wet clutches, and a SAE weight recommended by the mfg. For me the best do all oil has been Rotella T6 synthetic.

For separate clutch/tranny I run ATF because it allows fine tuning clutch action by using different weights and types. I learned this from the challenge of finding a substitute oil that met the specs for my Trials bike.
Rotalla T always seemed to provide the best shifting and clutch action in my XRs, and Rekluse recommends it for their clutches. T6 is also OK. The shifting on my X doesn't seem to be as sensitive oil as my XRs so YMMV.

[SDet]

3 hours ago, Chuck. said:

For decades I've used Rotella or Delo in all of my diesels and cars that didn't require a synthetic long change interval oil.  I also run it in my XRs because of the shared tranny/wet clutch. I have a high lift cam in my current XR and the cam grinder was very specific about using a synthetic oil with adequate anti wear additives and only two were approved; Motul 300V and Redline.  Any production bike with a stock cam shouldn't need those oils, but I have them on hand so they get used in my CRF250X.

I think the important things are; oil that is compatible with the wet clutches, and a SAE weight recommended by the mfg. For me the best do all oil has been Rotella T6 synthetic.

For separate clutch/tranny I run ATF because it allows fine tuning clutch action by using different weights and types. I learned this from the challenge of finding a substitute oil that met the specs for my Trials bike.
Rotalla T always seemed to provide the best shifting and clutch action in my XRs, and Rekluse recommends it for their clutches. T6 is also OK. The shifting on my X doesn't seem to be as sensitive oil as my XRs so YMMV.

Do you find that rotella t shifts better than t6? I prefer to run synthetic in my husky, but it can be stiff to shift at times. 

[ossagp]

5 hours ago, Chuck. said:

For decades I've used Rotella or Delo in all of my diesels and cars that didn't require a synthetic long change interval oil.  I also run it in my XRs because of the shared tranny/wet clutch. I have a high lift cam in my current XR and the cam grinder was very specific about using a synthetic oil with adequate anti wear additives and only two were approved; Motul 300V and Redline.  Any production bike with a stock cam shouldn't need those oils, but I have them on hand so they get used in my CRF250X.

I think the important things are; oil that is compatible with the wet clutches, and a SAE weight recommended by the mfg. For me the best do all oil has been Rotella T6 synthetic.

For separate clutch/tranny I run ATF because it allows fine tuning clutch action by using different weights and types. I learned this from the challenge of finding a substitute oil that met the specs for my Trials bike.
Rotalla T always seemed to provide the best shifting and clutch action in my XRs, and Rekluse recommends it for their clutches. T6 is also OK. The shifting on my X doesn't seem to be as sensitive oil as my XRs so YMMV.

I like to use atf for any application where the transmission is separate,  all of the two strokes etc.  years back the gentleman who was building road race and flat track engines for honda turned me to Mobil 1 to reduce cam wear (rocker wear too).   It has worked with both Megacycle billet cams and their hard welded cams in xr's.   Mobile has since switched their process for building base stocks from what I know.   I have had no problems using Dello 400 in my crf250,  (one Web cam and one stock 08 cam) as far as cam wear goes.  

Edited July 2, 2017 by ossagp

[Chuck.]

I flatted a Megacycle cam in my XR last summer because of an oil leak and the cam/follower debris destroyed the rings and bore so I needed a complete top end rebuild. Megacycle told me only two oils currently had enough anti friction additive for my cam, or I could use Redline additive. Also as of Jan 1 2017 the fleet service oils like Rotella, Delo, and Delvac no longer contain antiwear additives. And only use Redline or Megacycle assembly lube, no moly assembly lube. So using any automotive oil for a high lift cam is risky.

Quote

Do you find that rotella t shifts better than t6? I prefer to run synthetic in my husky, but it can be stiff to shift at times. 

The T and T6 provided the best shifting in my XR, and I preferred the clutch action with the than the T6. Honda Pro oil is junk in my XR, one ride and the shifting gets notchy, also no specs available for Honda oils. The cam lost changed that so I now use Redline or Motul 300V. The Redline lasts longer before notchy shifting in my XR than the 300V. 
My X has a shift mechanism that seem more immune to oil shear breakdown than the XR so I don't notice shifting issues with any of the above oils.  Before installing the Rekluse in the X I ran Valvoline Dextron synthetic ATF ( a very thin ATF) and it provided a very smooth clutch with no drag just like my Trials bike (which has Honda frictions).  With the Rekluse I had clutch squeal and Rekluse recommended a thicker oil, T didn't fix it but Torco 20W-50 helped a lot. With the Motul in my XR I also have clutch squeal. Rekluse says it is cause by worn basket bushings (they connect the basket to the gear) allowing the basket to vibrate, nice to know but an expensive fix.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Chuck.

[Moto Mike]

Chuck, 

So which two oils did they recommend? 

My dealer suggested Spectro semi synthetic 4 strike oil. Says it will have the lubrication for the engine and the clutch. It costs about the same as any of the full synthetic offerings..

Mike 

[Chuck.]

They were in my previous post; Redline or Motul 300V.  Both oils are high quality synthetics and the specs list the quantity of antiwear additives (zinc, phosphorus, molybdenum). These additives are banned from automotive oils because of emission requirements. Engines are designed for the types of available lube oils so there should be no problems using the oil recommended in the Owner's Manual in a stock engine for the specified operating conditions. 

Antiwear additives do not affect clutch action, but antifriction additives in "Energy Efficient" oils do. And they will screw up a clutch, happened to me with a XR and Mobil 1 car oil. Then again on a purchased bike that seemed fine during a road test but subsequent riding indicated a slipping clutch, and the frictions were in spec. I had to replace the frictions on both. The CRF250X Owner's Manual recommends the same oil for both sides but I think that is to simplify maintenance, and the drain/fill points on the engine are confusing so it could be easy to put the wrong oil in the engine or tranny. 

Redline MC specs: https://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=109&pcid=13

Motul 300V specs no longer list the amount of antiwear additives.

[ossagp]

21 hours ago, Chuck. said:

I flatted a Megacycle cam in my XR last summer because of an oil leak and the cam/follower debris destroyed the rings and bore so I needed a complete top end rebuild. Megacycle told me only two oils currently had enough anti friction additive for my cam, or I could use Redline additive. Also as of Jan 1 2017 the fleet service oils like Rotella, Delo, and Delvac no longer contain antiwear additives. And only use Redline or Megacycle assembly lube, no moly assembly lube. So using any automotive oil for a high lift cam is risky.

The T and T6 provided the best shifting in my XR, and I preferred the clutch action with the than the T6. Honda Pro oil is junk in my XR, one ride and the shifting gets notchy, also no specs available for Honda oils. The cam lost changed that so I now use Redline or Motul 300V. The Redline lasts longer before notchy shifting in my XR than the 300V. 
My X has a shift mechanism that seem more immune to oil shear breakdown than the XR so I don't notice shifting issues with any of the above oils.  Before installing the Rekluse in the X I ran Valvoline Dextron synthetic ATF ( a very thin ATF) and it provided a very smooth clutch with no drag just like my Trials bike (which has Honda frictions).  With the Rekluse I had clutch squeal and Rekluse recommended a thicker oil, T didn't fix it but Torco 20W-50 helped a lot. With the Motul in my XR I also have clutch squeal. Rekluse says it is cause by worn basket bushings (they connect the basket to the gear) allowing the basket to vibrate, nice to know but an expensive fix.

If that is so,  Chevron hasn't announced it where I could find it.  As of last august they were still talking 880 ppm of zinc,  though sooner or later they were bound to have to reduce anti wear additives.  So where can I see what you just stated? 

[Chuck.]

I was told by Megacycle last summer that Rotella oil's  exemption for antiwear additives would expire at the end of the year, and you posted info from last summer. I was told by Megacycle that I needed to switch to a different oil if I wanted to use their high lift flat lifter cam in my XR. They provided info on acceptable oils for my cam/engine, which I posted.

IMO 880 ppm of zinc isn't enough for a high lift cam, per the link in my post; Redline has 2100ppm of zinc, 2100ppm of phosphorus, and 425ppm of moly.

Your best source for information on lube oils that are compatible with an after market cam in your engine will be the cam grinder. 

[highmarker]

The reductions in zinc of modern diesel oil is fine, because they also reduced the calcium based detergents that competes with it for surface, it's a balance.  The reduction in detergent is offset by a better base oil. That reduced the resulting ash, which is why they could qualify it for jaso. Before it was over their allowable limit for ash. All oils have extreme pressure and anti wear adds, zddp is just a defacto because its cheap, it can be reduced and combined with other adds that together work even better. They know what their doing.

[ossagp]

16 hours ago, Chuck. said:

I was told by Megacycle last summer that Rotella oil's  exemption for antiwear additives would expire at the end of the year, and you posted info from last summer. I was told by Megacycle that I needed to switch to a different oil if I wanted to use their high lift flat lifter cam in my XR. They provided info on acceptable oils for my cam/engine, which I posted.

IMO 880 ppm of zinc isn't enough for a high lift cam, per the link in my post; Redline has 2100ppm of zinc, 2100ppm of phosphorus, and 425ppm of moly.

Your best source for information on lube oils that are compatible with an after market cam in your engine will be the cam grinder. 

Nice to know your opinion on Zinc.  What we are dealing with here is the conversion from cj-4 to CK-4 SAE specs.   Megacycle is partly right,  but the additives were not eliminated but reduced,  replaced and according to all companies improved.  I find that it pays to look at what the actual specs are before fear of the sky hitting me.  FYI I found some newer specs,  and Zinc in my favorite oil is reduced by about 35% as figured in my head. 

Again, the specs are out there,  but I am sure Megacycle knows what is best for their cams and using my old standby won't work in some rocker arm cases.

[ossagp]

15 hours ago, highmarker said:

The reductions in zinc of modern diesel oil is fine, because they also reduced the calcium based detergents that competes with it for surface, it's a balance.  The reduction in detergent is offset by a better base oil. That reduced the resulting ash, which is why they could qualify it for jaso. Before it was over their allowable limit for ash. All oils have extreme pressure and anti wear adds, zddp is just a defacto because its cheap, it can be reduced and combined with other adds that together work even better. They know what their doing.

I am betting that any of the other bigger name diesel oils would get a JASO qualification if they wanted it,  they all look so similar on paper.   Shell felt it advantageous to them and nice for us to know.   Rocker arms are pretty old technology,  and I don't see near the cam wear on bucket/shim wear with the cams over the valves that I do with rockers.  That has been true since my first Kawasaki 900  (still have one).   I have used 15-40 in Megacycle cam applications for and xl350,  xr500,  and xr600 engines and certainly didn't see any abnormal wear.  I have a fresh xr250 build with fresh stock rockers and fresh stock cam that has ck-4 rated oils and so far it hasn't moved since original start up,  and the cam timing hasn't budged on the latest dello 400.   When I get my hard faced rockers and install the max lift megacycle cam that I am sitting on,  I think I will try their advice,  probably adding the suggested additive.  

[Chuck.]

15 hours ago, highmarker said:

The reductions in zinc of modern diesel oil is fine, because they also reduced the calcium based detergents that competes with it for surface, it's a balance.  The reduction in detergent is offset by a better base oil. That reduced the resulting ash, which is why they could qualify it for jaso. Before it was over their allowable limit for ash. All oils have extreme pressure and anti wear adds, zddp is just a defacto because its cheap, it can be reduced and combined with other adds that together work even better.

They know what their doing.

I agree they know what they are doing but they are blending lube oils that meet the requirements for production engines and the EPA.

All of my adult life I've heard cam grinders whine that lube oils were not adequate for their high lift grinds. And I've never had an OEM cam go flat running off the shelf oils that were specified in the Owner's Manual.

[Motox367]

This is what i found out with my switch to fourstrokes.  Seems to be the winner? old/new style 

[ossagp]

18 hours ago, Chuck. said:

I agree they know what they are doing but they are blending lube oils that meet the requirements for production engines and the EPA.

All of my adult life I've heard cam grinders whine that lube oils were not adequate for their high lift grinds. And I've never had an OEM cam go flat running off the shelf oils that were specified in the Owner's Manual.

Most of the people I used to talk to at Megacycle have retired!  If they are telling people that there are no additives left in off the shelf oils I am not surprised that they DON'T know what they are talking about.  What I do believe is that if they tell you that a certain lube combination works with their product,  it WILL.   Older lifters and rockers were/are one of the most extreme pressure occurrences in a running engine,   and I always expect accelerated wear there when I go to higher lifts and the stiffer springs required to allow for the lift and control the valve float that would come with higher rpms.  The forces go up very dramatically.   BTW there are plenty of reasonably priced additives for people who want to mix their own,  as some HD diesel owners have been doing.   The prices of the newly rated oils has gone up considerably too.  

[skorpan777]

On 2017-06-29 at 8:21 PM, Michael Simi said:

Hi all, long time member, just coming back to bikes after a 10+ year detour for family and career. 

So, now the garage is kinda full, wondering if I can simplify my maintenance by only having to use one oil for all my 4 stroke bikes.  Thinking someone else around here has already figured this out,

Here is what is in the garage, 

2014 Suzuki V-Strom 1000

2006 Suzuki DRZ400

2004 Yamaha TTR125 

2006 Yamaha WR450f

and a Yamaha 2016 Dual Sport, XT250

I have run AmsOil in my MBZ diesels for years and hundreds of thousands of miles.  I have yet to look up every bikes specs, but I am thinking *might be a bad thing* that I should be able to get a high quality synthetic that will work in all the bikes, 

Thoughts? 

 

Thanks

All oils with JASO  label work on all your bikes . just pick a 100% synthetic oil.

On most bottle that say synthetic is just blended with synthetic oil therefore not a real synthetic.

Look for Full synthetic or 100% synthetic.

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by skorpan777