Suzuki needle better then stock needle?

[Onzalimey]

So I have a 2013 300 that I was thinking of trying the Suzuki needle in. It's a husaberg te300 but basically Ktm 300XCW. Just wondering what the difference is with the Suzuki vs the stock Ktm needle. Not unhappy with how the bike is running right now just seeing if it's worth it to look into this. Also what is the needle called? Thanks

[Trailryder42]

"Better" is subjective. You have to determine if it's better for you. The stock needles are single taper whereas the Suzuki are double or triple taper, I don't remember, been a few years since I did all that research. But the Suzuki works a lot better for my riding. I'm an intermediate rider, don't race, just trail ride, tho often technical. Never see WFO and hardly ever see mid throttle unless I'm riding sand.

I bought, I think, 6 different Suzuki needles initially. After a lot of testing, I settled on the NECJ needle, 2nd from top clip position. I live at 3600' and run it with a 40 pilot and 162 main.

Very happy with it.

[zig06]

Just wondering but why not order a JD Jet kit?  Installed one in my '12 300XCW and loved it from day one.  Really cleaned up the bottom end and the transition from low through the mid range, top end was always good.

[Onzalimey]

I would say the majority of riding is 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and the odd wide open throttle. What is the Suzuki needle supposed to benefit? I think the NECJ one is the most common I've seen so far 

[M A T R]

There's not just one...

[kxrob]

47 minutes ago, Onzalimey said:

What is the Suzuki needle supposed to benefit? 

Smooth / torquey feel and clean running from 0-wot

temps and elevation play a big part in what Suzuki needle you use

and for the record they are triple taper 

[KennyMc]

Suzuki needles are triple tapered.

 

Edit - just a tad slow on the post?

Edited July 3, 2017 by KennyMc

[Trailryder42]

2 hours ago, kxrob said:

Smooth / torquey feel and clean running from 0-wot

 

I agree. It's easier to manage my throttle. So I don't get worn out from just trying to modulate power to the ground. Power from throttle input is not so light switch like as with the stock single taper needles.

[KX02]

15 hours ago, zig06 said:

Just wondering but why not order a JD Jet kit?  Installed one in my '12 300XCW and loved it from day one.  Really cleaned up the bottom end and the transition from low through the mid range, top end was always good.

You get a lot  more options for tuning going to Suzuki needles for less money than buying a JD kit. With the JD kit usually only one of the needles will work for a particular application. The Suzuki NEC and NED allow you to tune the needle length 1/2 clip at a time and there are several different needle diameters.

[zig06]

2 hours ago, KX02 said:

You get a lot  more options for tuning going to Suzuki needles for less money than buying a JD kit. With the JD kit usually only one of the needles will work for a particular application. The Suzuki NEC and NED allow you to tune the needle length 1/2 clip at a time and there are several different needle diameters.

It might give us more options, but that also means that we will have a greater chance at not getting it right.  But I can see that if you are good with jetting and like to fiddle then the Suzuki needle will appeal to some riders.  The JD kit comes with options too, you just need to read the instructions over, be honest with how and where you ride and then simply install the kit per their recommendation ~ easy peasy.  Sure the JD kit initially cost more but I only had to mess with the carb once (when I was installing the kit), after that I just rode the bike ~ never had to touch the jetting again. 

[max9001]

 

hi, have experiment a lot of jetting setup on my ktm 300 xc-w 2015 and found completely new way to jetting my bike more efficiently and happy to share it with you.

First, my review of NECJ needle.
I have a nice crisp response and clean high rev feeling but pull hard only bottom to mid and doesn't keep this pull until the top end comparing to JD Jetting and the original jetting coming with the bike.

Review of my JD jetting.
Give a extra pull between mid and top compare to NECJ.
Its more balanced powerband from bottom end to top end and pull hard everywere.The stock JD  setting is very good but a littlebit rich. Having not make test with more leanest jd setting.

New jetting.
Back to basic and i opened the ktm engine service manual. Refusing to believe that there is no solution from the manufacturer and i ordered the N8RJ needle from KTM dealer.

Put the N8RJ clip #2 with 168MJ and OMG!, massive gain of power and torque on entire powerband until the end of the galaxy...awsome improvement , a lot more torque throughout entire curve and pull so hard very long time until the final cutoff . I will definitely adopt this setting until the rest of my life. With the red pv spring  hangon and pray the Lord ! wheel up in 5 and 6st in the trail

-N8RJ clip #2
-38PJ as= 2,75 (very important gain when proper ajusted -because 38 is littlebit too rich and 35 littlebit too lean)
-168MJ

Now its awsome. 10/10 .Best Spark plug color

For reference ,
KTM needle option.
-Richer
N8RE
N8RF
N8RG -(come standard installed in)
N8RH -(come standard)
N8RW
N8RJ *
N8RK
N8RL
-Leaner

 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by max9001

[KennyMc]

 
hi, have experiment a lot of jetting setup on my ktm 300 xc-w 2015 and found completely new way to jetting my bike more efficiently and happy to share it with you.

First, my review of NECJ needle.
I have a nice crisp response and clean high rev feeling but pull hard only bottom to mid and doesn't keep this pull until the top end comparing to JD Jetting and the original jetting coming with the bike.

Review of my JD jetting.
Give a extra pull between mid and top compare to NECJ.
Its more balanced powerband from bottom end to top end and pull hard everywere.The stock JD  setting is very good but a littlebit rich. Having not make test with more leanest jd setting.

New jetting.
Back to basic and i opened the ktm engine service manual. Refusing to believe that there is no solution from the manufacturer and i ordered the N8RJ needle from KTM dealer.

Put the N8RJ clip #2 with 168MJ and OMG!, massive gain of power and torque on entire powerband until the end of the galaxy...awsome improvement , a lot more torque throughout entire curve and pull so hard very long time until the final cutoff . I will definitely adopt this setting until the rest of my life. With the red pv spring  hangon and pray the Lord ! wheel up in 5 and 6st in the trail

-N8RJ clip #2
-38PJ as= 2,75 (very important gain when proper ajusted -because 38 is littlebit too rich and 35 littlebit too lean)
-168MJ

Now its awsome. 10/10 .Best Spark plug color

For reference ,
KTM needle option.
-Richer
N8RE
N8RF
N8RG -(come standard installed in)
N8RH -(come standard)
N8RW
N8RJ *
N8RK
N8RL
-Leaner
 
 

I've always run the NECH Suzuki needle

[jgwakeup]

On 7/3/2017 at 6:49 AM, max9001 said:

 

hi, have experiment a lot of jetting setup on my ktm 300 xc-w 2015 and found completely new way to jetting my bike more efficiently and happy to share it with you.

First, my review of NECJ needle.
I have a nice crisp response and clean high rev feeling but pull hard only bottom to mid and doesn't keep this pull until the top end comparing to JD Jetting and the original jetting coming with the bike.

Review of my JD jetting.
Give a extra pull between mid and top compare to NECJ.
Its more balanced powerband from bottom end to top end and pull hard everywere.The stock JD  setting is very good but a littlebit rich. Having not make test with more leanest jd setting.

New jetting.
Back to basic and i opened the ktm engine service manual. Refusing to believe that there is no solution from the manufacturer and i ordered the N8RJ needle from KTM dealer.

Put the N8RJ clip #2 with 168MJ and OMG!, massive gain of power and torque on entire powerband until the end of the galaxy...awsome improvement , a lot more torque throughout entire curve and pull so hard very long time until the final cutoff . I will definitely adopt this setting until the rest of my life. With the red pv spring  hangon and pray the Lord ! wheel up in 5 and 6st in the trail

-N8RJ clip #2
-38PJ as= 2,75 (very important gain when proper ajusted -because 38 is littlebit too rich and 35 littlebit too lean)
-168MJ

Now its awsome. 10/10 .Best Spark plug color

For reference ,
KTM needle option.
-Richer
N8RE
N8RF
N8RG -(come standard installed in)
N8RH -(come standard)
N8RW
N8RJ *
N8RK
N8RL
-Leaner

 

 

Impressive 

stock head or rk tek etc?

fuel n premix ratio

elevation 

thanks interested to try this 

[slotracer577]

Copied from the gas gas forum.  I felt this really sums up how the NECx, NEDx needles work. 


NEDx (3 tapers) Lean -> Moderate -> Rich - The nature of the beast, starts lean and progressively gets richer. It means you can have good clean throttle response with no surprises in the rev range. The clean bottom end lacks torque in some applications, but also responds really well to clutch. Richish mid range smooths the hit, and the needle supplies good fuel towards WOT. Smallish main compared to N3 (same as N1Ex).
 

[Armbarn sailor]

On 7/3/2017 at 7:22 AM, KX02 said:

You get a lot  more options for tuning going to Suzuki needles for less money than buying a JD kit. With the JD kit usually only one of the needles will work for a particular application. The Suzuki NEC and NED allow you to tune the needle length 1/2 clip at a time and there are several different needle diameters.

Jd needles are almost identical to suzi needles. Triple taper without the rich dump during main transition. Both good, jd needles a bit easier to tune.

[Chas_M]

JD needles may be similar to Suzuki needles in some ways but the final taper of the Suzuki needles are much richer than JD needles.

[Swappa]

Subscribed. 

[redhead 1]

On 7/2/2017 at 12:23 PM, Trailryder42 said:

"Better" is subjective. You have to determine if it's better for you. The stock needles are single taper whereas the Suzuki are double or triple taper, I don't remember, been a few years since I did all that research. But the Suzuki works a lot better for my riding. I'm an intermediate rider, don't race, just trail ride, tho often technical. Never see WFO and hardly ever see mid throttle unless I'm riding sand.

I bought, I think, 6 different Suzuki needles initially. After a lot of testing, I settled on the NECJ needle, 2nd from top clip position. I live at 3600' and run it with a 40 pilot and 162 main.

Very happy with it.

What temperature do you ride in ? And how's the gas mileage? 

[mog]

This thread is from 2017 ,unlikely he will reply 

[Trailryder42]

 

3 minutes ago, redhead 1 said:

What temperature do you ride in ? And how's the gas mileage? 

I'd say, in the summer, temps are typically in the 80's and 90's. 

The engine isn't jetted or tuned to run any richer or leaner in any significant way that would make any small difference in gas mileage relevant. The different dual or triple taper needles just manage fuel delivery across the relevant throttle range to a finer degree than a single taper needle does.  

1 minute ago, mog said:

This thread is from 2017 ,unlikely he will reply 

I was typing it up as I heard you reply. LOL.